Jump to content











Photo
- - - - -

Confused as Hell...

confused help will praise for help ;)

  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 01 March 2015 - 08:37 PM

I want to make a PE with XP (preferably), or 7. Beside DiskCryptor, and Macrium Reflect Free, I don't really need anything else.
But I don't know what to use - this website has WinBuilder 2013.09.01 as a featured download. The tutorials I've found are for some undisclosed versions (but not that ^ one). Even your own tutorial from here:
http://reboot.pro/to...-portable-apps/
just adds to my confusion:
 

The projects discussed in this tutorial are customized and frozen versions of their progenitors, LiveXP and Win7PE_SE. They are more or less updated to reflect their counterparts but have different setups and contain additional scripts and features not offered in the official versions found elsewhere in the forum.

My only other PE experience was with BartPE, so I'm a "little" overwhelmed :ermm:
I got other questions too, but let's take it one step at a time :)



#2 Agent47

Agent47

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 164 posts
  •  
    India

Posted 02 March 2015 - 08:43 AM

Hi

 

Lots of newer hardware doesn't support XP so it's not a good idea to use a XP based PE as the main recovery environment. I would suggest using "Windows 7" 32 bit PE as it has wider hardware and software support. Although there is a "Win7PE" project in new generation Winbuilder, it's still in beta stage. If you are looking for a project which is easy to customize and build, i highly recommends "Make_PE3" by Wimb.  

 

http://reboot.pro/to...e-windows-7-pe/

 

 

"Make_PE3" doesn't have "Disk Cryptor" and "Macrium" by default but is easy to add them once you are familiar with the builder. Install Windows 7 32 bit to a machine ( trial is enough ) and run the builder. The default "Explorer" version is perfect for repair and recovery purpose. Wimb has some nice video tutorials on the project page. 



#3 paraglider

paraglider

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1691 posts
  • Location:NC,USA
  •  
    United States

Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:52 PM

Or use the win7pe SE project ( uses the original winbuilder instead of the new winbuilder 2013 ) at:

 

http://w7pese.cwcodes.net/

 

There are 2 different, incompatible with each other, versions of winbuilder. The original has much greater community support and many different projects. The new winbuilder 2013 is a java based command line program that currently only has one project and is currently under development - latest versions of this are only available by special request to the developer.


  • Anfinuo likes this

#4 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 02 March 2015 - 05:20 PM

Lots of newer hardware doesn't support XP so it's not a good idea to use a XP based PE as the main recovery environment.

No, no. Got a load of that on various LiveCD's (going to merge them in a multiboot pendrive with YUMI, or DVD with SARDU).
It's just for me (my hardware is, sadly, old enough), because I don't like making backups, encrypting from "standard" Windows\"active" disc, and I also don't like "juggling" LiveCD\USB.
 

If you are looking for a project which is easy to customize and build, i highly recommends "Make_PE3" by Wimb.

Well, I don't expect something as easy, straightforward as BartPE, but WinBuilder is perplexing :D
Will check it out.
 

"Make_PE3" doesn't have "Disk Cryptor" and "Macrium" by default...

Neither does WinBuilder, so after downloading it, I've downloaded a lot of scripts, with the:
"!!! You need the new WinBuilder program to run this plugin!",
annotation (by the way, which one is "new" ? The "console" one ?)
But after I ran WinBuilder(s), I've said to myself:
"Oookay, this is gonna take some time\helping hand" :D
 

Or use the win7pe SE project...

Will check it too.
 

There are 2 different, incompatible with each other, versions of winbuilder.

Yeah, I've noticed.
 

The new winbuilder 2013 is a java...

(insert mandatory java love^-1 ;))
 

...currently only has one project and is currently under development - latest versions of this are only available by special request to the developer.

Well, I'm not "married" to WinBuilder idea, so if you have some other PE builder than support those two applications I've mentioned, tell me.


Thank you, guys.

#5 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:03 PM

Checked them out. Not good:

  • Make_PE3 looked promising, but it looks that adding unsuported applications, requires "pluging" them into Dependency Walker, and RegMon, and "writing it all down",
  • win7pe SE is just another WinBulder fork, so not really a step forward.

But, there's something positive - now I know why I can't "wrap my head around it" - those PE builders make full (more, or less) featured Windows LiveCD, with 32 bit color, and DX support, and all that good stuff. I don't need all that. All I need is a "framework" for those two applications I've mentioned earlier, with 256 colors, or even BIOS\DOS Blue.



#6 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13329 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:30 PM

Yep, but it is not like good ol' BartPE was in any way different, if you didn' t use a plugin made by someone else (who would have previously traced the program in Dependency Walker/Filemon/Regmon and "translated" the result into a working plugin).

 

In other words, you asked the "wrong" question :w00t: you should have asked:

Do you know of any PE builder that ALREADY has a plugin (or .script or equivalent) for DiskCryptor <insert here specific version> and Macrium Reflect Free <insert here specific version>?

 

Someone would have replied "NO" :ph34r: and we would be at this same step:

  1. build a basic PE
  2. trace the programs you desire to add to it and add them

The leaner/lighter PE's around (command line only or with a "lean" GUI) are currently made with QuickPE (adviced):

http://reboot.pro/fi...le/340-quickpe/

 

BUT it does exist a .script for Diskcryptor (unspecified version) for Win7PE:

http://reboot.pro/to...egration-fails/

and for Macrium Reflect you could also go the "other way round":

http://www.rmprepusb.../macriumreflect

though also a .script exiists for it:

http://reboot.pro/to...m-reflect-free/

and a Win7PE can be made as simple as possible.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#7 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 05 March 2015 - 04:48 PM

Yep, but it is not like good ol' BartPE was in any way different...

I hope that's a joke. And if it's not, it's getting this discussion (further) off track, so not gonna go there.
 

In other words, you asked the "wrong" question...

No, I didn't:

I got other questions too, but let's take it one step at a time :)


:w00t: you should have asked:
Do you know of any PE builder that ALREADY has a plugin (or .script or equivalent) for...

No, I shouldn't, because I already knew that there are (like BartPE which I've used), and that there are plugins for it for WinBuilder too:
http://reboot.pro/fi...yptor-09593106/
http://reboot.pro/fi...m-reflect-free/

And I've already downloaded them:

...I've downloaded a lot of scripts, with the:
"!!! You need the new WinBuilder program to run this plugin!",
annotation (by the way, which one is "new" ? The "console" one ?)


Nonetheless, I've "asked" what you suggest too:

Well, I'm not "married" to WinBuilder idea, so if you have some other PE builder than support those two applications I've mentioned, tell me.


BUT it does exist a .script for Diskcryptor (unspecified version) for Win7PE...

Like I've said above - I know.
I also already have a bootable CD for DC, and Macrium Reflect Free. But like I've said before:

...and I also don't like "juggling" LiveCD\USB.

Meaning, I got them on two different media (BartPE for DC, their own stripped PE for Macrium), and want to "merge" them into one.
Not so long ago, there was support for Macrium in BartPE, but it "died" some versions ago.
Funny thing - Macrium has a tutorial for it still on their website, and IIRC, it's referring to some old PE version too.


So, please, don't "get ahead" of myself, because "you don't know where I'm going", and you're just gonna "hurt" us both :)

#8 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12686 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 05 March 2015 - 05:17 PM

You need a very simple PE which only offers two distinct applications.

 

On the first view this looks very easy to be solved, but on the next view there appeare several MUSTS:

(Just as example!, I did not check whether the apps really need these dependencies):

  • Audio support
  • MSI Installer
  • .Net Framework.
  • ....

So it is not only the question how to add your favoured apps to the PE. The real question is the dependencies.

 

In your special case I suggest a multiboot CD / UFD using Grub4Dos, to start your needed applications.

 

When you want to try WinBuilder 2015 (unlike paraglider said, it is now public) I'm ready to help (But I do not know right now whether your intention will work correctly).

 

Peter :cheers:


  • Nuno Brito likes this

#9 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 09 March 2015 - 08:29 PM

You know what ? Frell it, I'm just gonna "juggle" those CD's.

But if someone would provide\point to a tutorial and a WinBuilder (preferably GUI one) version, that it works with, and a step by step (♪ oh, baby ♪) tutorial for making plugins, I would appreciate, and (probably) use it when I have more time.


Thank you all, for (trying to) help.

#10 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:34 AM

So I've tried to make Win 7 PE, with "standard" WinBuilder (083), Win7PE SE (small), and Make PE3, and none of them recognized my Windows 7 as a valid source.
So my question is:

  • how "validity" is ascertained ?
  • got any MSDN(AA), or something, link with compatible\working Win 7 ?

Edited by Anfinuo, 22 March 2015 - 11:36 AM.


#11 paraglider

paraglider

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1691 posts
  • Location:NC,USA
  •  
    United States

Posted 22 March 2015 - 12:35 PM

Sources\install.wim and sources\boot.wim exist and are mountable on your current windows. Its better to use winbuilder 0.82 until you know what you are doing ( its included with the win7pese project ). If you run winbuilder win7pese project ( make sure on the Tools / Options tab you check Log original Statement / Log Comments / Show Variables / Debug Log / Verbose ) then you should get a detailed log you can examine to see why the source was not recognized. You can also zip and post it to a file sharing service and post a link here to get help.


  • Anfinuo likes this

#12 paraglider

paraglider

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1691 posts
  • Location:NC,USA
  •  
    United States

Posted 22 March 2015 - 12:41 PM

Create a folder in the root of an internal drive named something short like win7. Copy the whole of your win 7 dvd or the contents of the iso file ( not the iso file ) to the win7 folder. Your win7 folder should then contain boot / sources subfolders. In winbuilder set the source to <drive>:\win7



#13 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 24 March 2015 - 11:44 AM

Thank you paraglider, the tip about log helped, and it took only two attempts to make a working (well, as far as I can see), PE with DiskCryptor, and Macrium Reflect :clap:
So now that I got a "taste", I want "moar":

  • I've added .script files for those applications, into their own folder in: \Projects\Win7PESE\ (tutorial I've found "said" so).
    Can I add them somewhere else, like the Apps folder ?
  • Is there somewhere a project, tutorial for making a PE with "all the bells and whistles" ?
  • Is persistence, like those for Live Linux distros, avaliable ?


#14 paraglider

paraglider

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1691 posts
  • Location:NC,USA
  •  
    United States

Posted 24 March 2015 - 11:57 AM

You can put scripts in any subfolder. The combination of script level and directory name and script name affects the order scripts are run. In most cases this does not matter.

 

How can there be a tutorial for making a PE with all the bells and whistles. Your definition and my definition of what that means would not be the same.

 

PE by definition does not persist changes to the registry made during its running.

 

If you want that sort of persistance plus portability  run full windows from a USB drive - better to use win 8 or later if you are going to do that ( windows to go).


  • Anfinuo likes this

#15 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13329 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:32 PM

 

So now that I got a "taste", I want "moar":

 

Yep :), it is addictive.

Now, for NO apparent reason if not that of posting a cute picture, i.e. WITHOUT any attempt, intended or implied to bring any new or additional aspect to this topic:

Spoiler

 

:duff:

Wonko



#16 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member

  • Team Reboot
  • 12686 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:54 PM

I'm in real doubt, how this post can bring any new aspects to the topic.

 

Peter :smart:



#17 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13329 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 24 March 2015 - 06:57 PM

I'm in real doubt, how this post can bring any new aspects to the topic.

 

Peter :smart:

Edited previous post, adding a more explicit explanation of the reasons behind my decision to create it, so that you can resolve your doubt. :)

 

:duff:

Wonko



#18 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:15 PM

How can there be a tutorial for making a PE with all the bells and whistles. Your definition and my definition of what that means would not be the same.

I'm not looking for ONE-AND-ONLY-TRUE-WAY, just for something that will help me "get my bearings".
 

If you want that sort of persistance plus portability  run full windows from a USB drive - better to use win 8 or later if you are going to do that ( windows to go).

Not "want", "would be nice".
And Windows 8 - do not want.
 

Yep :), it is addictive.

Yep, especially when you heavy-ish on the obsessive side (has a flashback of previous OCD episode with Inno Setup, and smiles to his memories).



#19 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13329 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:20 PM

Start here:

http://reboot.pro/to...pe-se-tutorial/

http://reboot.pro/to...-portable-apps/

 

:duff:

Wonko



#20 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 25 March 2015 - 01:49 AM

@Wonko the Sane
I know about the first one. From it I've learned about Driver Packs (added one for mass storage in that PE of mine, and earlier today downloaded, and "trimmed" the rest).
The second one I've mentioned in my first post.
:)

I'm more interested in adding stuff like .NET, VC runtimes, Flash, or updating DX.



#21 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13329 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:41 AM

I'm more interested in adding stuff like .NET, VC runtimes, Flash, or updating DX.

Yep, but this is the common approach that historically does not work (mind you, it may work for you :), but it would be an exception), curiously enough simple things are simple and complex things are complex.

 

There are introductory tutorials because there are about simple things that can be learned through a tutorial, and there are not "advanced" tutorials because by the time you would be capable of following an advanced tutorial you would need not the advanced info in the form of tutorial.

 

And more generally you are at a junction. :w00t: :ph34r:

You have to decide if you are a "passive" user of the Winbuilder (in which case you simply get the latest project made by a Developer and run it / use it to build a PE or whatever choosing among the choices the Author or Maintainer of the project gives you) or you try to become an "active" one, capable of creating your own .scripts or modify the existing ones to better suite your needs.

 

If the first, you have no chance, if something is not already in a project, but to specifically ask for (or beg for)  it on one of the forums dedicated to Winbuilder, hoping that the project developer or another developer will make it for you, if the second, you will need to study, and study a lot.

 

You have a new tool in your hands, you need to get familiar with it playing with it and attempting to do simple things with it, and only once you will have had the time to understand how it works, which quirks (if any) it has etc. you may think of making an attempt to complex projects.

 

In any case, it remains a tool (and nothing more) the "rest" (which is actually the most complex part) comes from general and deep knowledge of the OS and of the other several tools needed to trace a program or a subsystem.

 

Imagine that you receive as a gift a new Porsche 911, and while you are an experienced driver of "common" cars you have no racing experience on track, the car handles just fine and it has some real horse power under the bonnet boot ;), for using it safely you need some time driving it normally, getting the feeling of it without ever overdoing it, but while you are an experienced driver of "common" cars you have no driving experience with such a powerful car nor racing experience on track, if you want to go ahead you will need some advanced race driving courses and a lot of track laps before you can even think of taking part to a race, nothing that you can learn with a "tutorial" unfortunately.

 

The usual advice is to take an already existing "simple" project and play a lot with it, adding or removing .scripts, changing the settings, adding or adapting .scripts coming from other Projects, little by little you will get the hang of it, then, if you want to take the plunge and switch to "active user", you will need to start by reading a .script (for a "simple" program) and try to understand what it does and why the Author of the .script used a given Winbuilder .script syntax (instead of another one) to achieve something, then study Winbuilder Syntax and finally be able to write your own "simple" .scripts again for "simple" programs, this takes time and dedication, before being able to tackle any more complex chore.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#22 paraglider

paraglider

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1691 posts
  • Location:NC,USA
  •  
    United States

Posted 25 March 2015 - 11:36 AM

.Net, directx, VC runtimes are already included in in the win X pe se projects. Look at the scripts in the Components folder to understand what they do:

 

DirectX.script

VcRunTimes.script
VcRunTimes_File.script

DotNetFx.script



#23 Anfinuo

Anfinuo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  •  
    Poland

Posted 27 March 2015 - 10:27 AM

I understand what  you're saying, Wonko, and it's true.
It's also true, that sometimes "leaping ahead", followed by a occasional "crash and burn", can teach you a lot more than careful step, by step :)
 

.Net, directx, VC runtimes are already included in in the win X pe se projects.

Not in the "small" one, which I'm using since it's less "confusing" :)
 

Look at the scripts in the Components folder to understand what they do:
 
[...]
VcRunTimes.script
VcRunTimes_File.script

Well, first one checks if the second one (the VC files itself) is present, and then copies files, and writes the registry entries needed for VC runtimes to work.
Among other things.

Did I pass ?

#24 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13329 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:42 AM

I understand what  you're saying, Wonko, and it's true.
It's also true, that sometimes "leaping ahead", followed by a occasional "crash and burn", can teach you a lot more than careful step, by step :)

Yep :thumbsup:, that's EXACTLY the idea behind the suggestion to "play with it" :):

Life is "trying things to see if they work".


:duff:
Wonko

#25 sbaeder

sbaeder

    Gold Member

  • .script developer
  • 1334 posts
  • Location:usa - massachusettes
  •  
    United States

Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:37 PM

I understand what  you're saying, Wonko, and it's true.
It's also true, that sometimes "leaping ahead", followed by a occasional "crash and burn", can teach you a lot more than careful step, by step :)
 
Not in the "small" one, which I'm using since it's less "confusing" :)
 
Well, first one checks if the second one (the VC files itself) is present, and then copies files, and writes the registry entries needed for VC runtimes to work.
Among other things.

Did I pass ?

Yes - it is the difficulty of figuring out what all needs to be copied and placed in registry, etc.  If you look at a lot of the tools like that which have scripts, that is the difficult part - for somethings that are more easily added to the OS (like stand-alon applications) you can usually do some sort of installation on "REAL" windows, and compare pre and post installations.

 

The issue (which was alluded to on the persistance answer) is that a PE is *NOT* the same as a full installation of windows.  It really has a much more limited set of functionality.  My only analogy is that it is like running linux where MANY of the core fuctions are not provided, and you have to figure out what libraries need to be added to the tiniest of cores to get the functionality you need to run the application you really want to provide.

 

that is why things like .net and others have not only some code, but also a lot of registry magic (at least to me it seems like that to me...)

 

fv00255.gif

 

http://freefall.purr...300/fv00255.htm

 

So if all you want are more basic things, there are probably scripts to do it.  If you are trying to add devices for virtual drives to do disk snapshots, etc. then it will just take you a bit more "understanding"...

 

(but you should already feel among the privledged, since it's not often you get wonko, paraglider, pscEx and me all in the same post!) :loleverybody: :dubbio: :thumbsup:







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: confused, help, will praise for help ;)

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users