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USB Drivers only load 50% of the time.


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#1 Mr.Adam

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:30 PM

I am building an 32bit ISO to support two different models of HMI computers.  

 

The newer 64 bit system boots with the win7PE SE ISO, but it only loads the USB drivers half the time while the older 32 bit unit works everytime. A reboot always resolves the issue so it is functional, but annoying.

 

I had to add the drivers to the build for the newer 64bit system while the generic drivers included in the build work for the older 32 bit system.  I placed the drivers in both the package installer and integration folders in the build, I guess I am not sure which is loading and working. 

 

Is there something specific I should look at to get these to load with every boot?  or is there even a way to resolve this? 

 

This is being designed to be an in the field backup and recovery option and the plan is to access it through our VPN using a Vpro VNC session, so it would be handy if it worked everytime to reduce the workload.



#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:59 PM

Semi-random (and obvious) thought, but that sounds like a timing issue of some kind.
What are the "USB drivers" needed for?
I mean, are they needed in the boot phase (like when/if you are booting from a USB connected device, in which case you should get a 0x0000007b error if the drivers don't load or don't load early and/or fast enough) or are they needed only for mouse/keyboard or for other mass storage devices/other devices that are accessed later?
IF the latter, maybe loading them through DRVLOAD (or *something* like it) may solve the issue nicely.

:duff:
Wonko

#3 Mr.Adam

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:03 PM

yeah, just mouse/keyboard at this point.  

 

And it is only the USB drivers that ever fail, even the NIC driver always loads without issue.  I have it set now to boot from the local drive using EasyBCD but when I boot off a flash drive it never fails even once, it always loads and runs.   Also I always have mouse/keyboard in the Grub4DOS menu, it is only when the Win7 Live OS loads that they fail. 



#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:45 PM

Good, then do try loading them with DRVLOAD:
http://technet.micro...259(WS.10).aspx
it is *somewhere* in WAIK/ADK, and usually works:
http://www.msfn.org/...out-u/?p=923325
I presume that it will be better if you do not inject the drivers to the wim at all and rely on drvload (cannot say if it can create a conflict of some kind if the drivers are already there and failed to load for *some* reason).

:duff:
Wonko

#5 cdob

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:18 PM

I am building an 32bit ISO to support two different models of HMI computers.

Which hardware do you use?
Which BIOS USB settings do you use?
 

I had to add the drivers to the build for the newer 64bit system while the generic drivers included in the build work for the older 32 bit system.  I placed the drivers in both the package installer and integration folders in the build, I guess I am not sure which is loading and working.

 
Which drivers do you add? Name the files and version. How do you include them?

Do you use USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 ports?

http://reboot.pro/to...69-usb3-issues/

#6 Mr.Adam

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:34 PM

Which hardware do you use?
Which BIOS USB settings do you use?
 
 
Which drivers do you add? Name the files and version. How do you include them?

Do you use USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 ports?

http://reboot.pro/to...69-usb3-issues/

 

 

All of these questions seem irrelevant seeing as the drivers do load and work a portion of the time. 



#7 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 05:24 PM

All of these questions seem irrelevant seeing as the drivers do load and work a portion of the time.

As a matter of fact the whole issue (which is actually YOUR issue and for which YOU asked for help/assistance) seems irrelevant as it is YOUR issue and the drivers do load and work a portion of the time.

Common sense advice point #f.

http://reboot.pro/topic/82-

:duff:
Wonko



#8 Mr.Adam

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 05:47 PM

As a matter of fact the whole issue (which is actually YOUR issue and for which YOU asked for help/assistance) seems irrelevant as it is YOUR issue and the drivers do load and work a portion of the time.

Common sense advice point #f.

http://reboot.pro/topic/82-

:duff:
Wonko

 

By that logic, any question asked by any person relating to any topic for any product, process, or procedure is irrelevant.  

 

My comment about relevance was directed at the quoted comment and nothing else.  

 

In the process of troubleshooting, excluding those questions is the common sense thing to do as they do not result in any helpful information because the they all suggest that the drivers don't work at all.  The drivers do in fact work, but they only load a portion of the time which I agree, seems to be a timing issue.  

 

I never said your information or suggested resolutions were not right, I never said they were right.  I have not had a chance to attempt those steps and test for a resolution. Therefore I have not commented on them and won't until I have had time to actually look into them, which at this point I am not sure when that will be. So forgive me for not jumping up and testing your helpful but rather involved theories right away.

 

There is also a chance that someone else may suggest a less involved resolution, as I am not in a hurry to fix this because, as stated above:

 

"A reboot always resolves the issue so it is functional, but annoying."

 

So I can stand to wait a few days

 

 

 

my first problem with you is that you are taking offense to a comment that was not even directed at you.

 

next, you are accusing me of not using common sense when in fact I have and by simple if/then assumption ruled those questions out as they do not result in any helpful answers! 



#9 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 08:35 PM

Naaah, sorry but you are missing my point (and I am not taking offense at all :)).

 

You have a problem that obviously has some relevance for you (otherwise you would have considered it not an issue and not asked for assistance to solve it).

 

Since you are asking here for help you imply that someone here may know on the specific topic more than you do and that hopefully can assist you in solving or working around the issue (but the issue remains your issue, and noone but yourself will directly or indirectly have any advantage when (if) a solution or workaround is found).

 

A willing helping member (that, as said above by definition and until the contrary is proven, knows more than you do on the specific topic) may well ask a number of question to better understand the problem, or to either make it more specific or more generic, and your failing to answer these question (where not patently absurd) and calling them irrelevant is. besides clearly demotivating the good guy that tries to help you :(, also reducing the possibilities for you to get a possible solution or workaround from him/her.

 

Now imagine that a given USB controller (specific make/model) is already known to be delivered together with a specific driver version that is flaky and a newer, stable driver exists.

If you do not provide the info on the driver and it's version, noone will be able to provide this info to you.

 

Or imagine that a known, again specific, BIOS (or EFI/UEFI) has a quirk where you have to set a given setting like - say - "USB legacy mode" in order to have stable USB bus drivers loading, again you will never be told to try changing that setting if you don' t answer the related question deeming it irrelevant.

 

Also consider how many willing helping members are not really interested in solving the issue for the sake of it (it remains your issue, thus irrelevant for the helping member) but rather try to help more generally people having the same or similar problem in the future or while helping you with your issue want to learn more about the hardware and/or software involved (as this info may come useful at a later time), so the answers to the asked questions may be relevant for him or for other people.

 

The "Standard Litany" may well be unneeded in some cases:

http://homepage.ntlw...ard-litany.html

still, by providing the info, you will avoid wasting  "yours and others' time, and delay the actual remedy to your problem, by forcing everyone to spend one or more rounds of communication back and forth simply trying to wring the relevant information out of you."

 

But if you additionally decide what info to provide along your own rating of relevant or irrelevant even when explicitly asked for it, you are deliberately lessening the probabilities to get valid advice/assistance.

 

You may have not considered this aspect, and you could have been well unaware of it's relevance, now you know about it.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#10 cdob

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 09:16 AM

The drivers do in fact work, but they only load a portion of the time which I agree, seems to be a timing issue.


The posted link suggested to load a USB driver at a different timing.
Of course the driver may work of fail still.

#11 steve6375

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 10:10 AM

Can you clarify please?

 

1. 'I have built (via an undisclosed method with undisclosed tweaks/changes) a 32-bit Win7PE ISO'

2. 'I have to add (undisclosed) drivers for the newer 64-bit system ' (why??) - what drivers exactly for which devices??? 32-bit drivers presumably???

3. Have you tried a standard WinBuilder project (e.g. ChrisR's Win8.1SE 32-bit PE?)

4. The newer 64 bit system boots with the win7PE SE ISO, but it only loads the USB drivers half the time - how do you know that? Did you look at the log files and discover the drivers were not loaded or did you just guess that they were not loaded because they didn't work?

5. Windows 7 mouse and kbd usually work without needing to add drivers - so if you try to install Win7 from standard win7 install ISO do you lose the mouse/kbd?

6. Have you tried plugging the mouse/kbd into different ports before switching on?

7. Are any other USB devices besides kbd/mouse  connected to any other port or any other USB devices at all (e.g. card reader, etc.)?

8. Do BOTH the mouse and keyboard not work? If you unplug and replug them do they then work? Have you tried a different mouse & kbd?

9. What are ALL the extra drivers that you have added to your PE builds - they may be interfering with each other? Try reducing them to the bare minimum needed to boot and use the kbd/mouse.



#12 RoyM

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 08:56 PM

All the above questions are certainly pertinent to this topic IMHO.
And you absolutely have to understand, setup, and verify all 
hardware settings and it's operability for your configurations.
With that said, and assuming that all hardware is set up 
correctly and functioning correctly, 
we can then move onto troubleshooting the software platform.
 
My issue is, why would you make an x86 build, "which 'should' boot on both machines", and then include x64 drivers?.
and then when you run the x86 machines with x64 drivers installed, then what...
It doesn't work that way, x64 drivers must accompany an x64 build, and vice-versa.
 
How about separate builds for separate machines, that way you can start to narrow down your failures.
Make an x86 build with x86 drivers for the older machines.
Make an x64 build with x64 drivers for the newer machines.
 
Also please expand on how you are booting that x86 ISO.
Real CD, grub4dos-->ISO, flat file boot from USB, PXE boot, etc, ?.
 
Also I need some further clarification on this statement: 
"Also I always have mouse/keyboard in the Grub4DOS menu"
 
Am I missing something, or maybe perhaps in graphical mode
does grub4dos have built in mouse support???..
I never use graphical, Hmm.
 
In the effort of trying to be helpful along with the above
esteemed members, if our questions to you seem to be irrelevant
to you, please observe the rightfully earned titles of the ones willing to help, 
(i.e., "Gold Member-expert", "Platinum-Developer", "Advanced User", "Script Developer)
 
Regards
RoyM


#13 gbrao

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 06:05 AM

I had a similar problem with my Intel Haswell system. When booting a XP,7 or 8 PE the USB mouse would not get detected on first boot ( the KB was PS/2 ). On reboot, it was always detected. I then found out that, with Gigabyte mobos at least, the BIOS setting for "XHCI mode" is a bit tricky. See :
http://www.tonymacx8...html#post372656

After I changed the XHCI mode to "auto" ( from "smart auto" ) I never have that problem.

So if the newer system you refer to is a Haswell system, ...

#14 steve6375

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 09:06 AM

but surely what system, etc. Mr Adam has, is irrelevant - he said so in post #6 - so we must all be wrong and he must be right  :loleverybody:  :devil:






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