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Windows XP 64 booting into RamDisk


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#1 Brain Freeze

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 12:36 AM

:rolleyes: Yup I am back! After learning the process of running Windows XP 32 bit in ramdisk and actually enjoying the benefits over the years then I figured why not try it with Windows XP 64 bit. I would try it with Windows 7 but I'm still not a real fan of it not to mention it's size. So anyway what I wish to run it on is a laptop - Dell M4600 with 12 gigs of memory. This time I'm doing it for my own purposes and want to boot it from a usb thumb drive.

 

I right off the get go tried the same setup as I did for the 32 bit version and of course it failed. I installed faradisk version 0.0.1.30, made my thumb drive bootable and formatted it to fat 32, started up IMG_XP_Create.exe version 3.3.0.0 and recieved an error -1: Error: Error in expression.

 

So instead of just jumping on the board and asking I looked over IMG_XP_85. Am I wrong in assumption or is this a tool to install a setup xp disk to a thumb drive? I know I am not as smart as some of you but when it asks for a windows ISO then first thing I thought of was the set up disk. :ph34r:

 

PS.. Wonko the Sane, I missed you bud! :lol:

 

 



#2 Brain Freeze

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 04:52 PM

So instead of just jumping on the board and asking I looked over IMG_XP_85. Am I wrong in assumption or is this a tool to install a setup xp disk to a thumb drive? I know I am not as smart as some of you but when it asks for a windows ISO then first thing I thought of was the set up disk. :ph34r:

 

 

After looking over the new IMG_XP_85 yet again I now am starting to get the concept of it. The video really helped out on this one. http://reboot.pro/to...7-from-ramdisk/ Great job far.in.out! I'm just happy no one replied this time. :huh:



#3 Zoso

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 08:31 PM

hi Brain Freeze,

I was able to boot XP64 from ram but it was not reliable. it would not boot everytime. I will check it out again now that you mention it and post more info about how I set it up if I can remember the details..


I like XP64 also and will be trying to get it working on a new system soon too. including ewf which I think I have figured out a way to implement but have not tested yet.


that reminds me... (new topic)

if you have any XP64 tips please post them.

thanks

#4 Brain Freeze

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 02:47 PM

I now have an untested theroy that I want to try using free tools available here and over the internet since I am no programmer.

1. Stripping down unneeded portions of XP x64, installing to pc with added progams I do want and need, compressing the drive and installing firadisk such as we did with the original IMG_XP.

2. Creating a blank image and mount the image with firadisk and using a free program such as Macrium Reflect to clone the hard drive image of the PC to the blank image hopefully creating a bootable image and installing grub4dos to boot it all up.

Only difference I see at this point is the image will be a fixed size instead of not which was a real benefit of the original IMG_XP images in theroy of course. Any thoughts or suggestions are always appreciated.

 

One last note is Macrium Refect has the built in ability of resizing it's images to fit the drive intended which is why I chose this particular program. The most important part is to make the blank drive large enough to support the informational part of the clone.


Edited by Brain Freeze, 16 January 2015 - 03:19 PM.


#5 Brain Freeze

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 03:54 PM

if you have any XP64 tips please post them.

 

I use Nlite to slim down my XP versions all though many would say it's better to do it the normal way of getting rid of media player, the browser and so on while slipstreaming in the needed patches ect. I also get rid of all other Languages. You would be astonished of just how small the install will turn out to be when you are done. I was never a big fan of Microsoft so I try and use third party programs plus I obviously turn off hybernate and set page file to 0 and delete the pagefile.sys file. The hard part is taking out just enough yet not make any key parts of XP unfunctionable.

 

My new delima is I used a program such as Hideoe in XP x86 and loved it however it is still installable but looses most of it's functions in XP x64. What I wouldn't give to be smart enough to program. I know I could use other email clients but I've actually grown fond of Outlook Express. I love simple when it comes to certain things.



#6 Zoso

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 08:45 PM

give it a try and let us know how it works out!

if I recall correctly my process to boot raw image XPx64 with grub4dos is this:

fresh install XPx64 to first primary partition.

add firadisk and/or winVblock.

prep installation with usboot so it will boot from usb. now you should have a second copy of the XPx64 on a USB drive, go ahead and boot it from USB to make sure it is working.

now use QEmu manager and create a .RAW disk image slightly larger than your usboot XPx64 turned out.

mount that .RAW image with IMDisk and format it NTFS.

use clonedisk file copy feature with keep ACL checked to copy the USB XPx64 onto the new .RAW image mounted by Imdisk.

when its done, unmount the .RAW IMDisk and copy/paste that image to where you want to boot it with grub4dos.

grub4dos entry:

title boot XPx64 image
find --set-root /XPx64.raw
map --mem /XPx64.raw
map --hook
find --set-root /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr

this was working for me but only sometimes, others it would BSOD w/7d

I havnt tried to figure out why yet but from reading about w7x64 and firadisk it may need to be installed with driver signing ON which I cant remember if I did.

the image would boot fine if file backed but only occasionally when booting in RAM. I will get back to it at some point because I prefer XP over other MS OS.

Im just trying to get EWF working in XPx64 first before I go back to testing RAM booting it. I think I am close just need more time to experiment with it.

#7 Brain Freeze

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 04:25 PM

It's times like this that make me think I choose the right name for this forum. Yup I feel rather foolish at this point but I guess I had to learn my lesson. There's something to be said about the different types of drives just as there are different types of images.



#8 erwan.l

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 07:10 PM

give it a try and let us know how it works out!

if I recall correctly my process to boot raw image XPx64 with grub4dos is this:

fresh install XPx64 to first primary partition.

add firadisk and/or winVblock.

prep installation with usboot so it will boot from usb. now you should have a second copy of the XPx64 on a USB drive, go ahead and boot it from USB to make sure it is working.

now use QEmu manager and create a .RAW disk image slightly larger than your usboot XPx64 turned out.

mount that .RAW image with IMDisk and format it NTFS.

use clonedisk file copy feature with keep ACL checked to copy the USB XPx64 onto the new .RAW image mounted by Imdisk.

when its done, unmount the .RAW IMDisk and copy/paste that image to where you want to boot it with grub4dos.

grub4dos entry:

title boot XPx64 image
find --set-root /XPx64.raw
map --mem /XPx64.raw
map --hook
find --set-root /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr

this was working for me but only sometimes, others it would BSOD w/7d

I havnt tried to figure out why yet but from reading about w7x64 and firadisk it may need to be installed with driver signing ON which I cant remember if I did.

the image would boot fine if file backed but only occasionally when booting in RAM. I will get back to it at some point because I prefer XP over other MS OS.

Im just trying to get EWF working in XPx64 first before I go back to testing RAM booting it. I think I am close just need more time to experiment with it.


some remarks if I may :

-cloning a system "online" (i.e while running it) is not ideal : although working "most of the times", the process is not reliable as the filesystem could change during the copy.

-cloning a system by copying files is handy if your destination is smaller than the source partition but again it not the most reliable way as the result copy could differ from the original.

-the ideal cloning is a 1 to 1 byte copy and offline : clonedisk has the ability to copy "only" the partitioned space. for example, a 160gb disk with a 80gb partition will generate a 80gb raw disk copy.

-imdisk and clonedisk can create raw images, you dont need to use qemu manager for that.

if you want to stick to an online file copy, then you shall know that clonedisk uses xcopy with the following flags, /e /c /i /h /k /y /q /r /o, and attempts to run under the system account so that it will also copy the system registry hives.



#9 Zoso

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 03:02 AM

some remarks if I may :

-cloning a system "online" (i.e while running it) is not ideal : although working "most of the times", the process is not reliable as the filesystem could change during the copy.

-cloning a system by copying files is handy if your destination is smaller than the source partition but again it not the most reliable way as the result copy could differ from the original.

-the ideal cloning is a 1 to 1 byte copy and offline : clonedisk has the ability to copy "only" the partitioned space. for example, a 160gb disk with a 80gb partition will generate a 80gb raw disk copy.

-imdisk and clonedisk can create raw images, you dont need to use qemu manager for that.

if you want to stick to an online file copy, then you shall know that clonedisk uses xcopy with the following flags, /e /c /i /h /k /y /q /r /o, and attempts to run under the system account so that it will also copy the system registry hives.


hi erwan.l,

I havent been cloning it live, always from another OS but I am not so great explaining things.

I have had more success with file copy when trying things, you have given us the option to copy ACL or not and sometimes I try both ways when there is a problem. today I had to use it without copy ACL because a browser for some reason wouldnt work correctly with copy ACL checked.

how can "the result copy differ"? or what diffs?

back when I was desperately trying to boot an image in ram, qemu manger was the only way I could get a working image at the time so I have stuck with it.

I still havnt learned how to check the images made by various tools to see what differs in them but hopefully someday.. Im just a hobbiest at it though.

thanks for the info! BTW Im still using CloneDisk 1.9.6 because thats about all I use it for. (file copy) I wish I knew enough to take advantage of all you have put into it. I know its very powerful.

thanks

#10 erwan.l

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 08:21 AM

hi erwan.l,

I havent been cloning it live, always from another OS but I am not so great explaining things.

I have had more success with file copy when trying things, you have given us the option to copy ACL or not and sometimes I try both ways when there is a problem. today I had to use it without copy ACL because a browser for some reason wouldnt work correctly with copy ACL checked.

how can "the result copy differ"? or what diffs?

back when I was desperately trying to boot an image in ram, qemu manger was the only way I could get a working image at the time so I have stuck with it.

I still havnt learned how to check the images made by various tools to see what differs in them but hopefully someday.. Im just a hobbiest at it though.

thanks for the info! BTW Im still using CloneDisk 1.9.6 because thats about all I use it for. (file copy) I wish I knew enough to take advantage of all you have put into it. I know its very powerful.

thanks

 

ok, got it : indeed an offline clone is best.

if the target is eqal or bigger than the source then you should perform a 1:1 byte level copy : this is much safer.

doing a file copy you can lose acl's but also sym links, etc and by the end your new image will greatly differ from the source (different mbr and disk id, pbr and volume id, file system, etc) which makes the cloning process unreliable.

 

now, regarding the image itself, you need to specify it you are doing a full disk image (mbr+pbr) or a partition only (pbr).

whenever possible, i would strongly recommend a full disk image.

 

i am also considering that you are booting on the same hardware as otherwise this implies extra steps.



#11 Zoso

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 10:10 AM

almost always I do partition images and also for use on different hardware and booted from USBs

really just moving OS from here to there, even to and from extended partitions, to/from .vhd, .raw, .vmdk.

the process I described using file copy has been working pretty good but I have had unexplainable failures and now that you mention the risks involved I will know to retry instead of assuming it was something else wrong.

I lurked boot-land for years just reading and wondering about the possibilities and after so much reading, stuff started to make enough sense to me to actually try some things, the I joined the forum and started asking questions.

I was blown away first time I booted from USB and then RAM, then VHD! thing is, I really dont need to do all that, I just like experimenting and doing stuff beyond normal. LOL

I cant recall ever cloning a full disc with mbr though, all mine have too many partitions, its a unique set up I have but hard to explain (for me it is) it came about from not knowing the right or the wrong ways to do stuff and just trying everything. I got into disc encryption because I didnt know how to hide different windows on different partitions to keep them from fighting each other LOL

my craziest HDD is a USB3 1.5TB with 15 partitions! I can easily run windows out of drive letters with a couple of HDDs attached.


had about 8 partitions on a64G SD card that all booted but the first partition was still reserved for the cameras photo storage. oneday I was taking video and it ran out of space and somehow it killed the SD and loading all that took ages.. wont be doing that again, I was bummed out about that deal. LOL

#12 Zoso

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 10:23 AM

oh BTW LOL, Im still fascinated by all this PXE boot talk! but networking has been a tough area to learn for me.

Im getting there though.. love these old WRT54G routers now and that got me into really linux. I see endless possibilities with this stuff but the learning curve keeps me grounded LOL!

still trying to learn how to compile my own optware package which has been by far the toughest nut to crack but until somebody else makes what I want so I can use theiers I will keep at it.

a WRT54G that broadcasts data from a solar power system so that I can monitor it via wifi.. Ive been working on this for years now. its complicated, automated webmastering in realtime and transmitting it.

Im actually much better with hardware though so thats a plus.

#13 Brain Freeze

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 05:03 PM

I started the process over again, this time I am trying to use windows 8 x64 PE to load into to image the XP x64. So far Grub4dos couldn't seem to read the c/s/h of the image. I'm not sure if it's because I used the PE to load off of or not but I am using ODIN x64 to image the drive and it did seem to verify the image well. I did have 1 cluster that was fragmented so I am giving it another try.

 

Any thoughts on what I could be doing wrong would be appreciated



#14 Zoso

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 10:25 PM

ok, got it : indeed an offline clone is best.
if the target is eqal or bigger than the source then you should perform a 1:1 byte level copy : this is much safer.
doing a file copy you can lose acl's but also sym links, etc and by the end your new image will greatly differ from the source (different mbr and disk id, pbr and volume id, file system, etc) which makes the cloning process unreliable.

now, regarding the image itself, you need to specify it you are doing a full disk image (mbr+pbr) or a partition only (pbr).
whenever possible, i would strongly recommend a full disk image.

i am also considering that you are booting on the same hardware as otherwise this implies extra steps.


weird, now that you mention it, I am having trouble using file copy in clonedisk while trying to copy a XPx64 from a USB HDD to a raw image file made by Qemu manager.

it leaves out several directories, Ive tried several times now but when I copy the same USB HDD to another USB HDD it works without a flaw.

I finally have hardware that I can install a 64bit OS in VirtualBox so I am trying to make a "universal" XPx64 for booting anywhere in it.

how can I create an image of the XP on the USB HDD (hd0,0) and boot that image directly? seems my old way is no longer working (at least with XPx64)

thanks

#15 erwan.l

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:44 PM

weird, now that you mention it, I am having trouble using file copy in clonedisk while trying to copy a XPx64 from a USB HDD to a raw image file made by Qemu manager.

it leaves out several directories, Ive tried several times now but when I copy the same USB HDD to another USB HDD it works without a flaw.

I finally have hardware that I can install a 64bit OS in VirtualBox so I am trying to make a "universal" XPx64 for booting anywhere in it.

how can I create an image of the XP on the USB HDD (hd0,0) and boot that image directly? seems my old way is no longer working (at least with XPx64)

thanks

 

Backup your partition (not disk) to a raw image.

You'll get far better results.

 

Now if you need a disk image as a end result, let me know and we'll see how to add a mbr header to your partition image.



#16 Zoso

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 11:19 PM

Backup your partition (not disk) to a raw image.
You'll get far better results.

Now if you need a disk image as a end result, let me know and we'll see how to add a mbr header to your partition image.


I have backed up the partition with clonedisk and yes, I think a disk image is what I need now (so I can boot it via gru4dos) instruction on how to add the mbr header would be greatly appreciated.

Ive been having all kinds of strange results (none totally successful) while trying to filecopy XP x64 edition. it has always worked in the past though.

Ive always known there had to be a better way to do what Im trying to do but havnt learned how.


thanks

#17 erwan.l

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 11:30 PM

I have backed up the partition with clonedisk and yes, I think a disk image is what I need now (so I can boot it via gru4dos) instruction on how to add the mbr header would be greatly appreciated.
Ive been having all kinds of strange results (none totally successful) while trying to filecopy XP x64 edition. it has always worked in the past though.
Ive always known there had to be a better way to do what Im trying to do but havnt learned how.
thanks


Have a look here on how to append a disk header to a partition : http://labalec.fr/erwan/?p=1550

#18 Zoso

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 06:25 AM

Have a look here on how to append a disk header to a partition : http://labalec.fr/erwan/?p=1550

hey, nice blog! I think I am going to spend some time there soon. about this part though:

2.Append this header to your partition image using the dos command line copy /b header.img+part.img disk.img

I dont know how to do this. I think I need to put both .img files in same directory to do this. lets say put them in C:/test. would I then use right click "CMD here" then enter the command exactly as you indicate or do I need to type in C:/test in the command somewhere also? I think not and I will give it a try but asking just in case.

BTW, I was using my old version clonedisk from usbflash pstart menu and decide to download your latest for this new attempt. when I saw two seperate versions, one for 32 and another for 64 bit systems I realized what might be causing problems.. Im using old 32 clonedisk on a 64 system.

#19 Zoso

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 06:57 AM

OK, think I got it (header.img+part.img) but now I have dloaded 2.2.3 from link on your blog indicating it is latest version but the creen shots you posted to not match this version layout. this one has a grey sidebar area so Im trying to figure out step 3

3.Adapt mbr type=07 (for ntfs) boot=80 chs 1023*254*63 1023*254*63 before=2048 sectors=bootsector.totalsec+1

do I need to mount the new disk.img with IM disk or not for this step 3? (after I figure out how to get to the correct screen.


edit to add: I cant figure out how to load the new .img so I can try step 3.

also, when I try to do a filecopy with this new version I get message "has to be a PART type"

this is why I like to see version numbers in the download filename. I would like to find a x64 version of the old clonedisk Im using to try filecopy method.

2nd edit: OK, I found v2.3 here on reboot but the link does not specify if it is 32 or 64 nor does the filename! there is two download link for it here: http://reboot.pro/fi...d/24-clonedisk/


feel like going all wonko about now LOL

#20 erwan.l

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:45 AM

Clonedisk x64 is stuck to version 2.2 for now.
Clonedisk x32 current version is 2.3.2.

Reboot.pro download links points to my website here http://labalec.fr/erwan/?page_id=42.

You can use clonedisk x32 on windows x64, there is no pb there.

I made clonedisk x64 for winpe x64 (as many times winpe64 does not support x32 executables).

I will answer your other questions in another post.



#21 erwan.l

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 11:01 AM

OK, think I got it (header.img+part.img) but now I have dloaded 2.2.3 from link on your blog indicating it is latest version but the creen shots you posted to not match this version layout. this one has a grey sidebar area so Im trying to figure out step 3

do I need to mount the new disk.img with IM disk or not for this step 3? (after I figure out how to get to the correct screen.


edit to add: I cant figure out how to load the new .img so I can try step 3.

also, when I try to do a filecopy with this new version I get message "has to be a PART type"

this is why I like to see version numbers in the download filename. I would like to find a x64 version of the old clonedisk Im using to try filecopy method.

2nd edit: OK, I found v2.3 here on reboot but the link does not specify if it is 32 or 64 nor does the filename! there is two download link for it here: http://reboot.pro/fi...d/24-clonedisk/


feel like going all wonko about now LOL

About point 2, i have added a screenshot in my tutorial.

 

PM7EG8p.png

 

About point 3, no need to mount the image.

Clonedisk can edit this image : click on the dropdown combo and you'll see an item named 'disk image', click here and you'll be able to select your image and edit it.

 

 

About filecopy, you dont need it anymore but still if you want to use it, you need to right click 'show parts' in clonedisk main screen.

Then you'll be able to select your part and perform backup, clone, or filecopy.

 

519wa81.png



#22 Zoso

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:08 PM

About point 3, no need to mount the image.

Clonedisk can edit this image : click on the dropdown combo and you'll see an item named 'disk image', click here and you'll be able to select your image and edit it.

what dropdown combo? having trouble finding a "disk image" button anywhere in v2.3.2

in this screenshot on your blog G0nj3SR.png

it shows an advanced tab. this does not appear on my system.

#23 erwan.l

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:17 PM

what dropdown combo? having trouble finding a "disk image" button anywhere in v2.3.2


In the screenshot of point 3 : click on the dropdown combobox (where disks are listed), the last item is "select disk image".

#24 Zoso

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:29 PM

no "select disk image" anywhere to be found.
this is what Im seeing:

aNfJGDf.jpg

the v2.3.2 I have does not match the screenshot you posted which appears to be v2.3.2 also??
Im seeing grey side panel on my screen but not yours and yours has advanced tab but not mine.

whats going on?

#25 erwan.l

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:49 PM

no "select disk image" anywhere to be found.
this is what Im seeing:aNfJGDf.jpg
the v2.3.2 I have does not match the screenshot you posted which appears to be v2.3.2 also??
Im seeing grey side panel on my screen but not yours and yours has advanced tab but not mine.
whats going on?


Look at the screenshot in your post 22 above.
Click on the dropdown list.
I will make a screenshot later.

Enable tha advanced mode under the tools menu.




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