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How to transfer control from bootmgr (host-store) to 'grldr/grldr.mbr' and/or bootmgr (vhd-store) inside VHD ?


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#1 devdevadev

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:49 AM

Hello Everyone......

 

Suppose I have a single partition on the host with a bcd store and bootmgr (host-store), and a VHD file also has 'grldr/grldr.mbr' and/or

{bcdstore and bootmgr (vhd-store)}, and I want to boot my system as follows:

 

1. PC boot from host-store
2. Transfer control from bootmgr (host-store) to 'grldr/grldr.mgr' and/or bootmgr (vhd-store) inside VHD

3. 'grldr/grldr.mbr' and/or 'vhd-store' will take control over and execute 'Easy2Boot' files within from VHD

 

Is it possible to implement any one of following boot sequence ?

 
1-  C:\bootmgr -> C:\boot\bcd -> C:\Easy2Boot.vhdx -> \grldr -> \menu.lst -> Easy2Boot
2-  C:\bootmgr -> C:\boot\bcd -> C:\Easy2Boot.vhdx -> \bootmgr -> \boot\bcd -> \grldr -> \menu.lst -> Easy2Boot
 
Please suggest any other possible alternative if above boot sequence will not be possible to implement.............
 

Thanks & Regards.......



#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:21 AM


Do the following experiment.

Make a normally booting to .vhd or .vhdx system, verify it works.

Add in the root of the .vhd a copy of a grldr file and a BOOT.INI with these contents:

[boot loader]
Timeout=30
default=c:\grldr
[operating systems]
c:\nothing="Can you see the following line?"
c:\grldr="grub4dos"
c:\something="If you can't see it, it means that the BOOTMGR inside the .vhd"
c:\morestuff="is not involved in the booting."

What happens? :unsure:

:duff:
Wonko



#3 devdevadev

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:48 PM

 

Make a normally booting to .vhd or .vhdx system, verify it works.

 
First thanks for quick reply and tutorial.........
 

Till now I was adding VHD entry in BCD as follow-

 

post-65263-0-40960700-1408797386.png

 

But now in case of 'Easy2Boot.vhdx' what value I will have to put in boxes within Red Highlighted Area ?

 

i.e.

 

Boot file:   = ? (should it be \grldr )

Sys root:   = ?

language:  = ?

SafeBoot:  = ?

 

Please give some hint in order to add VHD entry in BCD..........

 

Thanks &  Regards.....



#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

Is there a difficult part in:

Make a normally booting to .vhd or .vhdx system, verify it works.

 

:dubbio:

 

"normally" means DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING in the way you make a booting .vhd (or .vhdx), it does NOT mean "change the way you make it", it does NOT mean "jump directly over the intermediate steps and experiment with the Easy2Boot.vhdx (whatever it is)".

 

You either already know how to make a booting .vhd or you don't.

 

If you do, you can carry the experiment fine.

 

If you don' t you first need to learn how to make one, like:

Windows 7:

http://technet.micro...2(v=ws.10).aspx

Windows 8:

http://technet.micro...y/hh825691.aspx

 

Remember how Windows 7 only "understands" ".vhd's" (and NOT .vhdx's), that Windows 8 "understands" both ".vhd's" and ".vhdx's" and that grub4dos (if it needs to access the file) is only compatible with RAW images or with "static" .vhd's (and NOT .vhdx's) which are to all effects a RAW image with a single sector appended. 

 

 

:duff:

Wonko



#5 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:35 AM

AFAIU, there are three types of VHD Disk Images-

 

1- Microsoft VHD

2- Raw Hard Disk Image

3- Raw Partition Image

 

Which one I should create in order to boot (test) 'grldr' within from VHD Disk Images ?

 

Thanks & Regards........



#6 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:10 AM

AFAIU, there are three types of VHD Disk Images-

 

1- Microsoft VHD

2- Raw Hard Disk Image

3- Raw Partition Image

 

Which one I should create in order to boot (test) 'grldr' within from VHD Disk Images ?

 

Thanks & Regards........

No, no, no. :frusty:

There are many types of VHD images, but NONE of them are the ones you describe.

 

They are ALL "Microsoft VHD's".

 

ALL of them represent a "whole" hard disk image (or parts of it):

http://en.wikipedia....D_(file_format)

http://en.wikipedia....pported_formats

 

I does NOT exist a VHD format "RAW disk image", it does NOT exist a VHD format "RAW partition image".

 

The "Fixed hard disk image" is a "RAW disk image" with a 1-sector footer appended to it.

 

You can find this piece of information, besides on the Wikipedia (first place to look at) written EVERYWHERE on this forum, like (among MANY others):

http://reboot.pro/to...d-img/?p=139661

http://reboot.pro/to...basic/?p=168934

http://reboot.pro/to...b4dos/?p=137456

 

You simply cannot have missed that or have understood something different. :frusty:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#7 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:26 AM

Actually I am using 'EasyBCD' in order to add 'Mac' and 'Linux' entry in BCD from last two years.........Yesterday I saw that it also provide option to add 'Disk Image (VHD) boot entry in BCD. And It's 'EasyBCD' which confuse me something something........And I have to ask for this.........

 

EasyBCD' add different BCD entries for each type of VHD option in EasyBCD.

 

post-65263-0-56456900-1408876221.png

 

Have 'EasyBCD' used wrong conventions for describing VHD types ?

 

Can you please tell me about the exact VHD type which I should use in order to test booting of bootmgr (vhd-store) and 'grldr' within form VHD ?

 

And which method I should use in order to add VHD entry in BCD ?

 

What files and folder I should copy within VHD along with '\grldr' , '\bootmgr' , '\boot\bcd' , 'BOOT.INI' in order to test booting of 'bootmgr' and 'grldr' within from VHD ?

 

Thanks & Regards....

Attached Thumbnails

  • EasyBCD options for adding VHD entry to BCD.png


#8 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:50 AM

And, again, you are not at all listening to what is suggested you (and remember that it was suggested to you because you asked about it).
 
FORGET about EasyBCD, FORGET about any other idea/tutorial/piece of info/whatever you have read anywhere else, just follow (to the letter) this:
http://technet.micro...2(v=ws.10).aspx
 
You know, like:
 

You either already know how to make a booting .vhd or you don't.
 
If you do, you can carry the experiment fine.
 
If you don' t you first need to learn how to make one, like:
Windows 7:
http://technet.micro...2(v=ws.10).aspx

 
 
 
The given link introduces the topic and links to a step-by-step, detailed, exact, accurate, fool-proof procedure to create a Native boot .vhd (of the "fixed" type BTW):
http://technet.micro...(v=ws.10).aspx 
 
WHAT is the difficult part? :dubbio:
 
Is there something difficult in:
 

diskpart
create vdisk file=c:\windows7.vhd maximum=25600 type=fixed
select vdisk file=c:\windows7.vhd
attach vdisk
create partition primary
assign letter=v
format quick label=vhd
exit

 
Do you have any doubt that "fixed" means "fixed"?
http://technet.micro...y/gg252579.aspx
 
WHY cannot you just follow it and reproduce it's results? :unsure:
 
WHY - if you have difficulties in understanding any of the steps involved - you don't ask for clarifications about the specific step or procedure and INSTEAD "go astray" with EasyBCD or any other unrelated tool/procedure or *what not* that crosses your mind? :frusty:
 
Can't  you just follow this to the letter:
http://technet.micro...8(v=ws.10).aspx
and replicate it?
 
The "walkthrough" consists of 4 (four) main steps, all detailed and explicited, WHAT (the heck) is the issue?
 
  :duff:
Wonko

P.S.: If you want to use EasyBCD, you should know that it has it's own support board:
https://neosmart.net...display.php?f=7
go there and ask EasyBCD related questions there.

Personally (JFYI) I find that many of it's "features", and particularly the way it "sells" plop and grub4dos (BTW in a now obsolete version) renamed in the docs as Neogrub, and more generally the non compliance to it's GNU license, besides the redistribution of non-redistributable MS files, some of which additionally renamed, are reasons good enough to stay well clear of it:
http://reboot.pro/to...cation-via-bcd/



#9 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:43 AM

Actually Yesterday I had used 'WinNTSetup v.3.6.3' in order to create, 'C:\WIMBoot.vhdx' , attche it , Deploy 'install.wim' and create the BCD configuration to boot from the VHD and then copy 'grldr' and 'BOOT.INI' within 'WIMBOOT.vhd;. But there is no effect of adding 'grldr' and 'BOOT.INI' . It still always boot 'Win 8.1 U1' ?

 

Can't  you just follow this to the letter:

http://technet.micro...8(v=ws.10).aspx

and replicate it?

 

The "walkthrough" consists of 4 (four) main steps, all detailed and explicited, WHAT (the heck) is the issue?

 

  :duff:

Wonko 

 

Should I not use only Step-1,2 and 4 instead of all 4 (four) steps ?

 

Regards....



#10 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:57 AM

Should I not use only Step-1,2 and 4 instead of all 4 (four) steps ?

I thought you were (as you normally should) making tests on a "brand new" Virtual Machine".

 

Actually if you are in a different case, you know, like:

http://technet.micro...8(v=ws.10).aspx

Note: This walkthrough describes how to deploy the VHD to a computer with no other installations of Windows. For more information about deploying multiple VHDs with native-boot on a single computer, or deploying VHDs on computers with a parent operating system, see Add a Native-Boot Virtual Hard Disk to the Boot Menu.http://technet.micro...9(v=ws.10).aspx

 

You should follow, right after Steps 1 and 2, the specific given other walkthrough:

http://technet.micro...9(v=ws.10).aspx

 

:duff:

Wonko



#11 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:24 PM

What should I do after applying following commands ?

diskpart
create vdisk file=E:\E2B.vhd maximum=25600 type=fixed
select vdisk file=E:\E2B.vhd
attach vdisk
create partition primary
assign letter=v
format quick label=vhd
exit

cd /d "c:\program files\<version>\tools\<architecture>\"
imagex /apply <pathtowim> 1 v:\

diskpart
select vdisk file=c:\E2B.vhd
attach vdisk
list volume
select volume <volume_number_of_attached_VHD>
assign letter=v
exit

bcdedit /copy {default} /d "vhd boot (locate)"
bcdedit /set {guid} device vhd=[locate]\E2B.vhd
bcdedit /set {guid} osdevice vhd=[locate]\E2B.vhd
bcdedit /default {guid}
bcdedit /set {guid} detecthal on

After completing above steps Should I also add 'grldr' and 'BOOT.INI' within 'E2B.vhd' ?

Can/Should I not use 'WinNTSetu v.3.6.3' for creating VHD, Deploying WIM and adding VHD entry to BCD ?

Does 'WinNTSetup v.3.6.3' not do exactly the same thing what we do with the help of cmd commands ?

I think GUI (WinNTSetu v.3.6.3) is more simple and better than manually method (cmd commands)? Is it not ?

Regards........



#12 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:28 PM

After completing above steps Should I also add 'grldr' and 'BOOT.INI' within 'E2B.vhd' ?

No, you should first test the image "as is".
Again what is the difficult part in repeating a given set of steps WITHOUT introducing variations of ANY kind?
Why you (but not only you rest assured :)) are obsessed by (presumed) shortcuts and/or "easier/faster" ways to obtain a result? :dubbio:

 

Can/Should I not use 'WinNTSetu v.3.6.3' for creating VHD, Deploying WIM and adding VHD entry to BCD ?

Does the given set of instructions talk of WinNTSetup?
If they do, you use WinNTSetup, if they don't, you don't.
If the idea is FOLLOWING a given set of instructions, you JUST §@ç#ing FOLLOW them and not try each and every possible way to deviate from it, using other tools or other commands.
Completing the whole walkthrough exactly as is takes what, less than 30 minutes, why - just for a change - not trying to follow the instructions?
 

Does 'WinNTSetup v.3.6.3' not do exactly the same thing  what we do with the help of cmd commands ?

Most probably it does the same exact thing :), but you will never know until you make two images, one with the given set of instructions and one with WinNTSetup and you compare them finding which differences (if any) the two methods create.
BTW, you posted that you made a .vhdx (which is NOT a .vhd) using WinNTSetup.

If it wasn't clear enough :whistling:, grub4dos will allow you access to the contents of a .vhd (and ONLY of a .vhd of "fixed" type) and NOT to those of a .vhdx,
 

I think think GUI is more simple and better than cmd commands ?

Most probably "simpler", hardly "better" (because you do not know what you - actually the tool - is really-really doing "under the hood".

Is it simpler and better to travel on a car driven by a chauffeur or to drive yourself the car? :unsure:

It depends mainly on the scope, if it is to go from point A to point B, most people will like better having the chauffeur, but if the scope is to learn how to drive a car, not so much...

:duff:
Wonko



#13 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:48 PM

Most probably it does the same exact thing :), but you will never know until you make two images, one with the given set of instructions and one with WinNTSetup and you compare them finding which differences (if any) the two methods create..

AFAIK, every GUI tool also use 'cmd commands' in order to complete any process. Is it not ?

 

BTW, you posted that you made a .vhdx (which is NOT a .vhd) using WinNTSetup.

If it wasn't clear enough  :whistling:, grub4dos will allow you access to the contents of a .vhd (and ONLY of a .vhd of "fixed" type) and NOT to those of a .vhdx,

From yesterday I am using .vhd instead of .vhdx 

 

Most probably "simpler", hardly "better" (because you do not know what you - actually the tool - is really-really doing "under the hood".

AFAIK, 'WinNTSetu v.3.6.3' execute 'cmd commands' in order to complete any task under the hood instead of us.

 

Is it not ?

 

Regards.......



#14 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 03:54 PM

AFAIK, every GUI tool also use 'cmd commands' in order to complete any process. Is it not ?

Is it not.
 

 

AFAIK, 'WinNTSetu v.3.6.3' execute 'cmd commands' in order to complete any task under the hood instead of us.
 
Is it not ?

Cannot say specifically, but while GUI interfaces to command line tools usually execute the same commands as the "underlying" command line tool, GUI tools do not usually.

But, even IF (and not necessarily it does) WinNTSetup uses the command line, you won't know WHICH command lines it sends to the underlying command line tool.


Now, besides the philosophy, at which point you are of the experiment?

:duff:
Wonko

#15 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:24 PM

Now I have successfully booted from working 'VHD.vhd' created through 'cmd commands'. Contents of 'VHD.vhd' and VHD bcd entry are shown in following screenshot.

 

Now what next ?

 

Regards.......... 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Working VHD created by cmd commands method.png


#16 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:41 PM

Now I have successfully booted from working 'VHD.vhd' create through 'cmd commands'. Contents of 'VHD.vhd' and VHD bcd entry are shown in following screenshot.
 
Now what next ?
 
Regards..........

Go to post #2:
http://reboot.pro/to...hd/#entry186619

Test with the added grldr and BOOT.INI inside the .vhd.

What happens?

If "nothing different", try adding to the root of the "host" a copy of grldr and this BOOT.INI:

[boot loader]
Timeout=30
default=c:\grldr
[operating systems]
c:\nothing="Can you see the following line?"
c:\grldr="grub4dos"
c:\something="If you can see it, it means that the BOOTMGR on the host"
c:\morestuff="is involved in the booting."

 

What happens?

 

Now reboot, and choose to boot to grub4dos, press "c" to get to the command prompt and in it type (adapt the /VHD.vhd to the actual path of the image on the "host" filesystem):

map (hd0) (hd1)
map /VHD.vhd (hd0)
map --hook
root (hd0,0)
chainloader /bootmgr
boot

What happens?

 

:duff:
Wonko



#17 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:58 PM

My 'Boot Drive' is D: while 'VHD.vhd' is located at E:\VHD.vhd .

 

So I will copy 'grldr' and 'BOOT.INI' within 'Boot Drive' D: during second experiment....Will it be OK......

map (hd0) (hd1)
map /VHD.vhd (hd0)
map --hook
root (hd0,0)
chainloader /bootmgr
boot

Will above code also work for my situation ?



#18 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:36 PM

1st and 2nd experiment dId not give any 'Different Result' .........

 

In last experiment I have copy following code within 'D:\menu.lst' instead of typing codes to adapt the /VHD.vhd to the actual path of the image on the "host" filesystem): . I think it should give exactly the same result which it will give after typing the code manually ?

 

E:\VHD.vhd       ( It contains \grldr and \BOOT.INI )

D:\bootmgr

D:\boot\bcd

D:\BOOT.INI

D:\grldr

D:\menu.lst

 

I have copy following code lines within 'D:\menu.lst'

map (hd0) (hd1)
find --set-root /VHD.vhd
map /VHD.vhd (hd0)
map --hook
root (hd0,0)

pause

chainloader /bootmgr
boot

Am I doing correctly ?



#19 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:39 PM

Of course not.

 

The drive letters obviously mean nothing in grub4dos.

How many hard disks (real hard disks) do you have?

Which partition on which disk gets which drive letter when mounted?

 

You copy the grldr and BOOT.INI to the same drive where your now booting BOOTMGR and \boot\BCD are, about the grub4dos commands, simply, add a command to find the /VHD.vhd file, like:

map (hd0) (hd1)

find --set-root /VHD.vhd
map /VHD.vhd (hd0)
map --hook
root (hd0,0)
chainloader /bootmgr
boot

 

The idea of using ALWAYS command line and NEVER pre-made menu.lst files when experimenting with grub4dos is that command line is interactive, and you get better "feedback" from each single command.

As an example at the:

map /VHD.vhd (hd0)

command you may receive an "error 60" because the .vhd is not contiguous or get an "error 15" if the file is not found, and I doubt that the pause you inserted will allow you to see them. :dubbio:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#20 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:05 PM

Currently I have only one real hard disk (Internal hard disk) - disk0

 

I have inserted 'pause' command within 'D:\menu.lst' in order to see progress msgs.... 

 

After choosing to boot to 'grub4dos' , It show following message. And after pressing enter it restart and boot to my default OS.

 

floppies_orig=0 , harddisks_orig = 1 , floppies_curr = 0 , harddisks_curr = 2

(hd0,4)

 

Now what should I have to do ? 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Hard disk Partitions.png


#21 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:34 PM

Now what should I have to do ? 

A good idea could be to LISTEN and DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD.

 

 

 

The idea of using ALWAYS command line and NEVER pre-made menu.lst files when experimenting with grub4dos is that command line is interactive, and you get better "feedback" from each single command.

As an example at the:

map /VHD.vhd (hd0)

command you may receive an "error 60" because the .vhd is not contiguous or get an "error 15" if the file is not found, and I doubt that the pause you inserted will allow you to see them. :dubbio:

 

You tried  - once again -  taking a shortcut, deviating from instructions/suggestions and - once again - you failed at it.

 

WHICH of these commands:

 

map (hd0) (hd1)
find --set-root /VHD.vhd
map /VHD.vhd (hd0)
map --hook
root (hd0,0)

 

(the ones before the "pause" in your menu.lst) produced that output? 

 

WHAT is the feedback of the following command? (that you cannot see)

chainloader /bootmgr

 

Try again, removing the menu.lst and §@ç#ing TYPING the commands one by one.  :realmad:

 

This way you see what happens and you can try other commands...

As an example, after map --hook you can try typing:

root (hd0,

and press [TAB] thus seeing if the partition (hd0,0) is available, or, once established root (hd0,0) successfully you can issue a 

ls

command (to make sure that you are root to the "right" partition), as well if instead of typing

chainloader /bootmgr

you type

chainloader /b

and press [TAB] you can see the files in root beginning with b, and continue autocompletion, etc., etc.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#22 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 08:09 PM

map (hd0) (hd1)

floppies_orig=0 , harddrivess_orig = 1 , floppies_curr = 0 , harddrivess_curr = 2

 

find --set-root /VHD.vhd

(hd0,4)


map /VHD.vhd (hd0)

Error60: File for drive emulation must be in one contiguous area


map --hook
root (hd0,0)

Error17: Can't mount selected partition


chainloader /bootmgr

Will boot NTLDR from drive = 0x80, partition = 0x4 (hidden sectores = 0x1dc0f841 )


boot



#23 devdevadev

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 08:34 PM

What if I use 'floppy Images' instead of 'Disk Image (vhd)' ?

 

Will 'grldr' boot within from 'floppy Image' ?



#24 tinybit

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:58 AM

map /VHD.vhd (hd0)

Error60: File for drive emulation must be in one contiguous area

 

It is quite clear now. That is where the rub is.

 

Use contig.exe to defragment the VHD.vhd file.



#25 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:17 AM

 

It is quite clear now. That is where the rub is.

 

Use contig.exe to defragment the VHD.vhd file.

 

Yep, and it was not "totally unexpected" :whistling::

 

 

The idea of using ALWAYS command line and NEVER pre-made menu.lst files when experimenting with grub4dos is that command line is interactive, and you get better "feedback" from each single command.

As an example at the:

map /VHD.vhd (hd0)

command you may receive an "error 60" because the .vhd is not contiguous or get an "error 15" if the file is not found, and I doubt that the pause you inserted will allow you to see them. :dubbio:

 

 

Of course the grldr will boot from a floppy image :), but the exercise is about 

 

1. PC boot from host-store
2. Transfer control from bootmgr (host-store) to 'grldr/grldr.mgr' and/or bootmgr (vhd-store) inside VHD

3. 'grldr/grldr.mbr' and/or 'vhd-store' will take control over and execute 'Easy2Boot' files within from VHD

 

 

:duff:

Wonko






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