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Win 7 transfer migrate to Win8.1 Laptop: SysPrep Generalize v/s Disk2VHD or both?

vhd native dual boot windows sysprep generalize oobe migrate transfer

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#1 crashnburn

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:33 AM

Win 7 transfer migrate to Win8.1 Laptop: SysPrep Generalize v/s Disk2VHD or both?
 
With regard to licensing/ activation: 
I will figure out what to do and will obtain that from my contacts at Microsoft. 
If you have any suggestions on that given these are 'unique' transfers, please do suggest what might work and I can ask my connects at MS. 
 
Goal:
 
1) TRANSPLANT existing [Win7 SP1 Ultimate][Thinkpad Drivers] FROM OLD [Thinkpad Laptop][SLIC 2.1 Enabled]
IMPLANT TO NEW [Toshiba Laptop][Win 8.1 Preinstalled] maintain Preinstall
 
2) Enable Native Dual Boot on [Toshiba Laptop] for both: 
[Win7 SP1 Ultimate]
[Win 8.1 Preinstalled]
(What would you use/ choose for dual boot?)
 
2 PATHWAYS AS LISTED BELOW:
- Please guide on proper steps to do both or one/ do advise?  
- How are they different from each other and what/how do they manage device drivers/ sanitize drivers? 
- Or do we need to use both? HOW? Thoughts (Googled both together.. lots of links)
 
PATH A. SysPrep Generalize Windows 7 to OOBE = [Win7 SP1 Ultimate][Minus OLD Drivers]
 
Windows 7 System Preparation Tool is a powerful, native Windows tool. When for instance used in so called Audit Mode, it let's you to freely configure Windows 7 to be then deployed to other computers as hardware independent image.
 
In this tutorial we use System Preparation Tool (sysprep) to prepare your Windows 7 installation to be moved to a new computer, keeping all your installed applications, program settings and user profiles. You can use this method for instance when you have bought a new PC and want to transfer your existing setup completely, without need to reinstall everything, or when you want to make major hardware changes like change the motherboard or GPU, which would usually cause Windows to stop booting normally. 
 

On: [Toshiba Laptop]

Repartition and Create space alongside [Win 8.1 Preinstalled] for [Win7 SP1 Ultimate][Minus OLD Drivers] partiation 
 
Enable Dual Boot
 
PATH B. Disk2VHD P2V (Physical to Virtual) VHD Conversion

Disk2VHD > create a VHDX (check all partitions)
Copy VHDX over to your new laptop, double click the file > CMD as Admin > bcdboot D:\Windows (where as D:\ is the path of the new mounted VHD)
Native Boot VHD

 

 

Enable Dual Boot
 
Comments & Questions encountered. 
- This VHD when it boots will boot on NATIVE hardware or as a VM under Hyper-V ?
- Is a VHD a driver sanitized, driver agnostic generic Drive Image? 
- How do DRIVERS from OLD Laptop (to remove) and NEW Laptop come into play (when executing) (if at all?) 

 

- Windows should "reconfigure" it self when you first boot it up on a different hardware, normally at least, ofc you may need to apply new drivers if some things don't work.
- There is nothing easier/safer than VHD booting, it doesn't screw around with your native Installation on the HDD  :P I used VHD booting a lot and honestly it's one of the best features Microsoft ever added into Windows, just keep in mind this only works with W7 Professional/Enterprise and W8 Pro/Enterprise
 
If VHDs are so good & portable, why would we want to use PARTITIONS at all? (Assuming we had enough drive space). 
 
I will have to add drivers for sure as its a new laptop. 
 
My question is does the VHD get CLEANED of the PREVIOUS DRIVER/ HARDWARE PROFILE on the HDD? And when it re configures with NEW HARDWARE does it clean the previous out and or has both included on it. 
 

Please let me know on the above 2 pathways given the outline: 

- Preparation on Source Machine (OLD): 
- Use on Destination Machine (NEW): 
- Restore on Source Machine (OLD):

Edited by crashnburn, 26 July 2014 - 07:36 AM.


#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:02 AM

 

With regard to licensing/ activation: 
I will figure out what to do and will obtain that from my contacts at Microsoft. 
If you have any suggestions on that given these are 'unique' transfers, please do suggest what might work and I can ask my connects at MS. 

 

Interesting switch from:

http://reboot.pro/to...ation/?p=186074

 

:thumbup:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#3 misty

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:44 AM

Something to think about.

The old Thinkpad laptop is very likely to use BIOS firmware - Lenovo UEFI implemention on the Thinkpad range is relatively recent - it's certainly not supported on the refurbished Thinkpads I have access to (X61, T400 and X200).

The new Toshiba laptop with Win 8.1 Preinstalled is highly likely to use UEFI firmware with Secure Boot enabled - this is after all a requirement for Windows 8 Hardware Certification.

Aside from some very limited testing in VMWare Player I have no experience with UEFI - I certainly do not have any access to UEFI hardware. I'm not sure it's possible to transfer an existing Windows 7 that was installed in BIOS mode to a UEFI system - even if it has been sysprepped. Please let us know how you get on.

You are also likely to be restricted to using a UEFI compatible boot manager for dual booting. Based on the information provided you are only planning on booting Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 - this should be achievable by editing the BCD store and using the existing boot manager.

Good luck!!!

Regards,

Misty

P.s. I'd personally avoid the use of any partition/disk imaging tools if you do decide to go down the route of re-partitioning the new Toshiba laptop - IMNSHO capturing/applying via WinPE using wimlib-imagex (or even imagex or DISM) is better suited to this approach. Third party software may introduce some errors and offline system backups are far less prone to errors.

#4 crashnburn

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:34 PM

Interesting switch from: http://reboot.pro/to...ation/?p=186074

 

:thumbup:  :duff:

Wonko

Wonko - With no intended disrespect. I understand if licensing/ activation issues are beyond the forums allowed limits. But, there are OTHER steps in the process that people can help/ guide and share stuff about. 
I do not understand the 'preaching' on licensing issues. Better to focus on OTHER steps excluding the licensing issues. 

 

Can Disk2VHD be run from Commandline or Win PE type system or something without Booting into the Disk being P2Ved to VHD?
I'd prefer to IMAGE to VHD without having that Disk & Windows Instance running.
 
I'd like to have ADDITIONAL CLARITY on VHDs & the way they HANDLE their HARDWARE/ DEVICE DRIVERS
Can you "Please" help with that? 
 
No one seems to have so far given me a clear understanding of what happens to the DRIVER profiles attached to Windows.
- Before VHD creation
- After VHD creation
- On First NATIVE BOOT of VHD on new machine
- Later NATIVE BOOT of VHD with new machine drivers ??

 

Misty - Thanks for your great insights. I was hoping someone could share more deeper insight on VHDs on the above questions. 

 

Something to think about.

The old Thinkpad laptop is very likely to use BIOS firmware - Lenovo UEFI implemention on the Thinkpad range is relatively recent - it's certainly not supported on the refurbished Thinkpads I have access to (X61, T400 and X200).

The new Toshiba laptop with Win 8.1 Preinstalled is highly likely to use UEFI firmware with Secure Boot enabled - this is after all a requirement for Windows 8 Hardware Certification.

Aside from some very limited testing in VMWare Player I have no experience with UEFI - I certainly do not have any access to UEFI hardware. I'm not sure it's possible to transfer an existing Windows 7 that was installed in BIOS mode to a UEFI system - even if it has been sysprepped. Please let us know how you get on.

You are also likely to be restricted to using a UEFI compatible boot manager for dual booting. Based on the information provided you are only planning on booting Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 - this should be achievable by editing the BCD store and using the existing boot manager.

Good luck!!!

Regards,

Misty

P.s. I'd personally avoid the use of any partition/disk imaging tools if you do decide to go down the route of re-partitioning the new Toshiba laptop - IMNSHO capturing/applying via WinPE using wimlib-imagex (or even imagex or DISM) is better suited to this approach. Third party software may introduce some errors and offline system backups are far less prone to errors.

 



#5 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:03 PM

Wonko - With no intended disrespect. I understand if licensing/ activation issues are beyond the forums allowed limits. But, there are OTHER steps in the process that people can help/ guide and share stuff about. 
I do not understand the 'preaching' on licensing issues. Better to focus on OTHER steps excluding the licensing issues. 

I am sure you do not intend any disrespect :), and let me reassure you that I also do not intend to disrespect you.

 

Still, you are asking about something that is either:

  1. extremely difficult (technically)
  2. impossible (technically)

If you ask your contacts at MS, they will tell you how the suggested procedure by them is to make a new install (from a "full" license source, NOT an "OEM" one).

 

This - even set aside the legality of doing such a transplant - is because usually (and particularly in the case of an OEM install, and particularly in the case of a "BIG OEM" install (such as Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. that have a long established tradition of installing any kind of crap on their OEM systems), and even more particularly with a "non fresh BIG OEM" install) there can (and will) be  any number of "peculiar" settings, "custom" programs installed, "queer" Registry that can create issues in the process and that would be a nightmare to troubleshoot and resolve (if possible at all).

 

The "normal" procedure is simply that of capturing an image of the "old install" to a .wim file, make it "hardware independent" by sysprepping it, then apply the image to the target (be it a "real" partition/volume or a .vhd or .vhdx file).

Such a procedure "normally" (i.e. done on a "fresh", "plain" install, of adequate size, and customized with just the *base* things, like drivers and a few programs) it is relatively "easy" and often (but not always) proceeds fine without issues, but the same thing on a "non-fresh", "non-plain" install usually resolves in an endless number of problems, sometimes not even evident and that will surface during use.

 

To the above you add the complication of cracking or working around validation and activation (which I doubt your contacts at MS will be able to solve legally short of providing you with a "proper" source and license :unsure:).

 

To put it in a Q&A form:

Q. Can it be done?

A. Cannot say, AFAIK noone ever did that (or succeeded at it or documented it).

Q. Is it a smart idea? (even set aside the legal implications)

A. No.

Q. But can you help me in this?

A. Maybe yes, maybe no, it is largely - AFAIK - unexplored ground.

Q. But are you willing to help me?

A. No, partly because I am a picky, grumpy, old bastard and partly because I see no point in the scope, AND I won't contribute to something potentially illegal.

Q. But then why you keep commenting on this?

A. Obviously because of the "But ... then, why?" in my signature ;), but - seriously - because I believe that what you set before you as a goal is extremely difficult, if not downright impossible, not to put you down, really, but before attempting this you should make a lot of experiments with the known methods with much "plainer" images.

There are a number of topics available that you may try to follow to get more familiar with the tools involved and with "simpler" goals.

As an example you might try to create a bootable install of windows 7 (from a trial source) on vhd. like:

http://blogs.msdn.co...-guideline.aspx

Then, install to it a few programs.

Then run on it , sysprep, like in the resource you found: http://www.sevenforu...w-computer.html

Then deploy the sysprepped image to a second .vhd.

 

When you will have mastered these processes, then you may be want to try doing the "real" thing.

 

Obviously, and I mean it, DO NOT EVEN THINK of "touching" the contents of your new machine hard disk WITHOUT having made a proper, tested and verified, backup or image and the same applies to your "old" PC (for which you need also a failsafe "wayback" provision).

 

:duff:

Wonko



#6 misty

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:55 AM

....
I'd prefer to IMAGE to VHD without having that Disk & Windows Instance running....

...No one seems to have so far given me a clear understanding of what happens to the DRIVER profiles attached to Windows.
- Before VHD creation
- After VHD creation
- On First NATIVE BOOT of VHD on new machine
- Later NATIVE BOOT of VHD with new machine drivers ??


Not sure. For educated guesses see below - note the use of the word guess.

I have never tried sysprepping an existing Native Boot VHD system. I have sysprepped a Windows installation and created a Native Boot VHD setup from that using the following steps (which will allow you to "to IMAGE to VHD without having that Disk & Windows Instance running") -
  • Booted to WinPE
  • Captured the sysprepped Windows 7 image (wimlib-imagex capture C:\ D:\Windows7.sysprepped.wim)
Then on the new system -
  • Booted to WinPE from a USB drive containing Windows7.sysprepped.wim
  • Ran the following commands in diskpart
    • create vdisk file=C:\windows7.vhd maximum=10240 type=fixed
    • select vdisk file=C:\windows7.vhd
    • attach vdisk
    • create partition primary
    • active
    • format fs=NTFS quick label=VHD
    • assign letter=S
  • Applied the captured (sysprepped) image to the mounted VHD file (wimlib-imagex apply D:\Windows7.sysprepped.wim 1 S:\)
  • Created boot files on C: drive - my active partition (S:\system32\bcdboot.exe S:\windows /s C:)
  • In the diskpart window I had left open, I then used the detach vdisk command and then rebooted the PC
The system booted into Windows 7 setup and found the new devices without any problems. It's also possible to add any missing drivers once the setup has completed. It's worth noting that when completing a new Windows install from a DVD (with Windows Operating Systems since the introduction of Windows Vista) the Windows installation process essentially applies a sysprepped image (from install.wim), then installs drivers, etc.

So to answer your questions in regards to DRIVER profiles -
Before VHD creation?
If the system is sysprepped (using the OOBE generalize options), then it doesn't seem to make any difference what drivers are/were installed.

After VHD creation?
When using the method detailed above - doesn't matter as the VHD simple contains the captured sysprepped image.

On First NATIVE BOOT of VHD on new machine?
Windows setup is completed - identifying new devices and installing drivers if present in the image.

Later NATIVE BOOT of VHD with new machine drivers?
Once the First NATIVE BOOT of VHD on new machine (see previous question) has completed then you essentially have a new windows installation on your new PC. Any drivers and software can be installed as normal.

Where it might get a bit more complex is multiboot setups - also disk paritioning schemes and third party boot loaders need to be factored in.

I still suspect that in your case the biggest problem is going to be moving a BIOS based install to UEFI. You might be better off using the VHD file in a VM.
 

...No, partly because I am a picky, grumpy, old bastard...

LOL - your insight is incredible :P

Regards,

Misty

#7 misty

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:06 AM

Windows to Go is able to run on multiple systems - remembering hardware configurations and drivers for all systems it's been booted on. On first boot on a new system Windows to Go appears to run through a mini Windows setup in order to install drivers, etc. Windows 7 is not as sophistcated as this, however a sysprepped Windows 7system appears to work in the same way - unfortunately it is then locked to the system it's first booted on - unless sysprepped again?

#8 misty

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:10 AM

Obviously, and I mean it, DO NOT EVEN THINK of "touching" the contents of your new machine hard disk WITHOUT having made a proper, tested and verified, backup or image and the same applies to your "old" PC (for which you need also a failsafe "wayback" provision).

Good advice is worth repeating! BTW, this is not just good advice - it's excellent - so it's worth repeating twice -

Obviously, and I mean it, DO NOT EVEN THINK of "touching" the contents of your new machine hard disk WITHOUT having made a proper, tested and verified, backup or image and the same applies to your "old" PC (for which you need also a failsafe "wayback" provision).


Regards,

Misty

#9 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:09 PM

Just in case, the 3 (three) golden Rules of backup:

http://www.msfn.org/...he-hd/?p=999270

 

More on topic, Natve VHD booting is reserved (due to a license restriction) to some versions of Windows 7 only and - as a guess - I doubt that a Lenovo laptop has this enabled in it's OEM version.

 

OP may look for threads by "Sambul61", an ex-member that had some form of obsession with booting VHD's and - as a side effect of the bickering with yours truly ;) - managed to put together some related info.

 

 

:duff:

Wonko



#10 cdob

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:13 PM

More on topic, Natve VHD booting is reserved (due to a license restriction) to some versions of Windows 7 only

 

TRANSPLANT existing [Win7 SP1 Ultimate]

Ultimate supports VHD booting.
 

I doubt that a Lenovo laptop has this enabled in it's OEM version.

Middleton Modified Whitelist Fixed SLIC 2.1 BIOS ... on this particular T61

It may be the same T61. The T61 have been distributed with XP or Vista, not with Windows 7.

I assume:
there is a OEM Windows 7 Ultimate license at the bookcase. And OEM SLIC 2.1 activation used...

Don't laugh: I'm using this myself. Remember: it's legal to sell and buy OEM licenses at some countries.
The court ruled against manufacturer opinion. However this particular case haven't ruled by court so far, and most likely won't be ever.

I would set msahci start=0 before cloning.
http://support.micro...om/kb/922976/en

@crashnburn
Do you use a nvidia graphic card?

#11 crashnburn

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:45 PM

I am going to run Disk2VHD tonight. Now based on SysInternals forums there seem to be some issue recently with newest version 2.0x of Disk2VHD versus previous version 1.64. 

Which have you reliably used many times? 
Also, I did another Drive last night and it created .VHD. 

Do I need VHDX? What are the differences / pros & cons between both?

 

PS: Thinkpad had NVIDIA, and Toshiba has AMD/ATI ?



#12 cdob

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:16 PM

wimlib-imagex was recommended here, not Disk2VHD. No idea about Disk2VHD.

Windows 7 dosn't support VHDX.
 

Thinkpad had NVIDIA

As far as I remember, Nvidia produced bad GPU that time.
http://forums.lenovo...reen/m-p/216958
Do you have GPU errors? Replace the mainboard.

#13 crashnburn

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:39 AM

wimlib-imagex was recommended here, not Disk2VHD. No idea about Disk2VHD.

Windows 7 dosn't support VHDX.
 
As far as I remember, Nvidia produced bad GPU that time.
http://forums.lenovo...reen/m-p/216958
Do you have GPU errors? Replace the mainboard.

The host machine is Win 8.1 so does the above Win 7 restriction still apply? 

 

VHD Boot issues: Windows 7 SP1 .vhdx on Win 8.1 Host. Help fix it.
 

 

I don't know if there is any good tutorial for it, it's really fairly simple anyway, if you need a proper tutorial you need to do some google-fu ..
Disk Management > Select Windows partition > Shrink. 
Disk2VHD > create a VHDX (check all partitions) 
Copy VHDX over to your new laptop, double click the file > CMD as Admin > bcdboot D:\Windows (where as D:\ is the path of the new mounted VHD)
 
When I reboot, the screen where I can choose OS appears, I choose Windows 7 but a black screen with this message shows;
 
File: \windows\system32\winload.efi
Status: 0xc0000428
Info: The digital signature for this file couldn't be verified
 
If it helps, this Win 7 instance first had a 200MB Boot partition ahead of it and then it was eliminated and all of it included into the Win7 partition.
 
A snippet from BCDEDIT output
Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier              {LongHexKey}
device                  vhd=[C:]\MIGRATION\D201\SSD_P1_X.VHDX
path                    \Windows\system32\winload.efi
description             Windows 7
locale                  en-us
inherit                 {bootloadersettings}
osdevice                vhd=[C:]\MIGRATION\D201\SSD_P1_X.VHDX
systemroot              \Windows
resumeobject            {LongHexKey}
nx                      OptIn
detecthal               Yes
 
VHD File is in C Drive at pointed out location
When mounted/ attached from Windows 8 host instance it shows up as E: drive as there is DVD at D: 
 
Any thoughts?

Edited by crashnburn, 29 July 2014 - 07:43 AM.


#14 cdob

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:03 PM

The host machine is Win 8.1 so does the above Win 7 restriction still apply?

Yes, there are bad GPU nontheless ;)

I doubt Windows 7 vdrvroot.sys and vhdmp.sys drivers supporting vhdx.
Create a vhd file.
 

VHD Boot issues: Windows 7 SP1 .vhdx on Win 8.1 Host. Help fix it.

Asks Microsoft to include VHDX drivers to Windows 7.
 

File: \windows\system32\winload.efi
Status: 0xc0000428
Info: The digital signature for this file couldn't be verified

Do you use Windows 7 x64?
 
Disable secure boot at firmware.

#15 cdob

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:11 PM

path                    \Windows\system32\winload.efi

Use winload.exe at a VHD MBR disk, even if you boot from UEFI.


Edited by cdob, 07 August 2014 - 03:11 PM.


#16 milindsmart

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:01 PM

A note : if you do manage to put windows on the UEFI computer, getting it to boot is no problem, just use startup repair or bcdboot to regenerate bootmgr on the EFI system partition.

Use winload.exe at a VHD MBR disk, even if you boot from UEFI.

That's strange. Why?

#17 cdob

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

That's strange. Why?

Lack of sleep: discard the nonsense.

To be corrected: use winload.efi at UEFI boot, even at a MBR VHD.





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