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UEFI booting of Partition 2 'Win8.1_x64.WIM' via FAT32-Active-Partition 1 'EFI Boot Files' ?

uefi booting efi files uefi mode uefi bcd bootmgr.efi efi folder boot manager wim files bootx64.efi fat32 active removable usb

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#26 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 01:07 PM

Hmmm.

Not many answers, only some explanations on why the question was made.

 

BTW you managed to make the 14 questions only 13, now with reference to the newly numbered 13 questions:

1. It means that as everyone has been telling you there are DIFFERENT EFI and UEFI implementations and they may behave DIFFERENTLY.

2.Yes/no/maybe. (see #1)

3.Yes/no/maybe (see #1)

4.Yes/no/maybe (see #1)

5.No, you cannot install "grub4dos" to "MBR boot Code", you can install grub4dos (grldr.mbr) to the MBR and a number of following hidden sectors. You cannot install "Boot Manager" to "MBR boot Code".

6.Yes, but no, the MBR will contain only first sector of the grub4dos grldr.mbr, the rest will be written to following (hidden) sectors.

7.No. It will install "standard" MBR boot code. There are tens of "standard" MBR boot codes which function is to chainload the PBR/VBR of the partition marked as active in the MBR partition table..

8.When you do nothing you get nothing. The default is a "standard" MBR boot code", see #7

9.It is NOT POSSIBLE to "install bootmgr into MBR boot code", see #5, #6, #7 and #8

10.It is NOT POSSIBLE to "install bootmgr into MBR boot code", see #5, #6, #7, #8 and #9

11.It is a set of assembler instructions that cannot exceed 440 bytes in length and that are loaded by the BIOS when booting.

12.The MBR is by definition the first absolute sector of any hard disk like device, CHS 0/0/1, LBA0, 512 bytes in size and contining Boot Code, Disk Signature, Partition Table and Magic Bytes. getting here (already provided indirectly in Steve6375's answer) might be of benefit for you: http://thestarman.pc.../mbr/index.html

13. It is NOT POSSIBLE to "install bootmgr into MBR boot code", see #5, #6, #7, #8 and #9

 

Now I have read them carefully and even replied correctly to each of them, noting how 1/3 are duplicates/senseless, 1/3 are based on false base assumptions, the remaining 1/3 are about very basic mechanisms in the booting process, i.e. something that you should have already studied and fully understood.

 

Besides the already mentioned site:

http://thestarman.pc.../mbr/index.html

Make sure to read additionally:

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/

http://diddy.boot-la...os/Grub4dos.htm

 

Once you will have read thoroughly the above, you will have the needed understanding of the BIOS booting process, with particular reference to grub4dos and BOOTMGR, then read this site (the whole site AND links provided in it):

http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/

and you will have a fair idea of EFi/UEFI booting.

 

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#27 devdevadev

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 02:19 PM

@Wonko

 

Hello Sir,

 

Tons of thanks  :worship: for giving to the point answers to my stupid, foolish and boring questions in exactly the same way I was expecting from someone. Now I have lots of content in order to strong my weak and missing basics. Please forgive me if any of my wordings hurt you anyway.

I am just like your 22 year old children. And Some bad children never easily listen to their parents unless their parents make their children understand with love, affection and patience.

 

Thanks for sharing links which are going to be very useful for me............

 

Regards.............. :worship:  



#28 devdevadev

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 02:37 PM

Whenever I choose "standard" MBR boot code" from 'UFD_FOMAT' , then BIOS always show 'BIOS BOOT Manager' screen during boot process. It's why I misunderstood this point. 

 

As you said that " There are tens of "standard" MBR boot codes which function is to chainload the PBR/VBR of the partition marked as active in the MBR partition table.."

 

Is it mean that "Standard" MBR boot codes chainload the PBR/VBR only if partition is marked as active in the MBR partition table.. while "Grub4dos (grldr.mbr) " MBR boot code does not require active partition in order to chainload 'grldr' ?

 

Thanks



#29 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 03:35 PM

The code in a "stardard" MBR code (which is written to a MBR) does two things:

1) check if a partition entry in the partition table has an active flag

2) chainloads the VBR/PBR of that partition/volume 

 

The code in grldr.mbr which is written to the MBR and a number of (hidden) sectors does two things:

1) scan all available volumes[1] (active and non active, hidden or visible) until it finds an instance of grldr

2) chainloads the found instance of grldr

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

[1] The scan includes both primary partitions and logical volumes inside Extended, see README_GRUB4DOS.TXT

 

grldr.mbr contains code that can be used as Master Boot Record. The code is
responsible for searching all partitions for grldr and when found, loading it.
Currently supported partition types are: FAT12/FAT16/FAT32, NTFS, EXT2/EXT3.
Logical partitions in the extended partition are supported, provided that the
extended partition type is Microsoft-compatible. In fact, the Linux extended
partition type(0x85) is not fully tested for the search mechanism.

 


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#30 steve6375

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 03:44 PM

Is it mean that "Standard" MBR boot codes chainload the PBR/VBR only if partition is marked as active in the MBR partition table.. while "Grub4dos (grldr.mbr) " MBR boot code does not require active partition in order to chainload 'grldr' ?

 

Thanks

 

grub4dos MBR does not require it, but some BIOSes are 'bad' and don't run the MBR code at all if there is no active partition! 

Other BIOSes directly boot from the PBR only if the partition is marked as active in the partition table of the MBR.

 

So for maximum compatibility

1. Always mark one of the partitions as Active

2. Place grub4dos code in MBR and PBR if possible

 

Having said that, someone (can't remember who) found that installing grub4dos to both MBR and PBR prevented a certain system from booting (though I have not personally experienced such a phenomenon).

 

Also, some UEFI systems don't seem to like booting from a FAT32 partition if it is marked as Active (even though the UEFI spec. says it should ignore the Active flag!).

 

It's like the Wild West out there in BIOS-Land!


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#31 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 05:17 PM

It's like the Wild West out there in BIOS-Land!

BUT, with NO Marshals nor Sheriffs, and with the bad guys having Gatlings instead of Colts! (in other words, much worse) ;)

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#32 steve6375

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 05:20 PM

Good job we guys work for the Pinkerton Detective Agency ...


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#33 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:37 PM

Good job we guys work for the Pinkerton Detective Agency ...

If you don't mind, I prefer being Lucky Luke ;):
http://www.forbidden...h-a-difference/

 

Even better, Cocco Bill :smiling9::

Spoiler

 

:duff:

Wonko



#34 cdob

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:08 PM

Why it might fail altogether ?

There are specifications: Unified Extensible Firmware Interface Specification.
And there are real world. A real world solution may expect one efi partition only.
Only one have been tested. A EFI code may hang, given four efi partititons.
You never know, only testing can answer this.

You either keep a KISS priciple http://en.wikipedia..../KISS_principle and expect to work in a lot of cases.
Or you create a high sophisticated, experimental approach and test a lot.

Contrary if different EFI works on demand, you may use this in another way.
Partition 1 bootloader: Windows 8 bootx64.efi - works at secure boot enabled or disable
Partition 2 bootloader: grub 2 bootx64.efi - works at secure boot disable
 

What it mean ? Does some UEFI firmware also look 'ptn3' and 'ptn4' for \EFI\ Partition ?
What If I put 'EFI files' into all four partitions ( ptn1,ptn2,ptn3 and ptn4 ) ? Will it give sure UEFI booting ?

Again, unknown behaviour: may work or fail. Test yourself.
UEFI specification http://www.uefi.org/ refers four partition entries. A full implementation should read all four partitions.
UEFI specification primary partition explicitely.
You may try logical partitions too. No, I won't try this.
 
Bear in mind: there is no solution supporting your request: booting at all machines
There are exceptions always.

#35 memoarfaa

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 10:11 PM

hi you can add grub4dos to bcd

 

load it from fat32 UEFI Partition

 

don't add Win8.1_x64.WIM file into FAT32/NTFS Partition 2

add Win8.1_x64.ISO  file into FAT32/NTFS Partition 2

 

load the iso using firadisk and  imdisk

 

add this to menu.lst 

title INSTALL Windows 8.1_x64 \nThis Will Setup Windows 8.1_x64  to your PC
debug off
set MYISO=Win8.iso
find --set-root /firadisk/loadiso.cmd
dd if=()/firadisk/au.xml of=()/AutoUnattend.xml
dd if=()/firadisk/spaces.txt of=()/firadisk/ISONAME.CMD
write ()/firadisk/ISONAME.CMD SET MYISO=\\iso\\%MYISO%\r\n
map --mem (md)0x800+4 (99)
find --set-root /ISO/%MYISO%
map /ISO/%MYISO% (0xff)
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map --hook
write (99) [FiraDisk]\nStartOptions=cdrom,vmem=find:/ISO/%MYISO%;\n\0
chainloader (0xff)/BOOTMGR || chainloader (0xff)



#36 cdob

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 03:55 AM

hi you can add grub4dos to bcd
load it from fat32 UEFI Partition


Does grub4dos works at UEFI secure mode?
Dosn't grub4dos uses BIOS routines?

#37 devdevadev

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:01 AM

hi you can add grub4dos to bcd

 

load it from fat32 UEFI Partition

 

don't add Win8.1_x64.WIM file into FAT32/NTFS Partition 2

add Win8.1_x64.ISO  file into FAT32/NTFS Partition 2

 

load the iso using firadisk and  imdisk

 

add this to menu.lst 

 

You mean if we add grub4dos to UEFI BCD and boot it from FAT32 EFI/UEFI Partition, then we can boot 'Win8.1SE_x64,ISO' without changing BIOS Setting to CSM/MBR/BIOS mode and Disable Secure Boot ? i.e.

 

UEFI-> /efi/bootmgfw.efi -> winload.efi -> S:\efi\Microsoft\Boot\BCD -> grubdos -> grldr/menu.lst -> Firadisk & Imdisk -> Win8.1SE.ISO

 

Interesting Very Interesting-  Have you tried it or not ? Is it working for you ?

 

In which partition I should have to put 'grldr' and 'menu.lst' files ? 

and Where I should have to put 'Win8.1_x64.ISO' in 'Partition 2' either in root or within any folder ?

 

Regards.......


Edited by devdevadev, 02 July 2014 - 08:10 AM.


#38 devdevadev

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 07:25 AM

Hello Everyone......

 

Greeting of the Day............. 

 

Is it possible to install 32-bit 'Win 8.1 U1' on 64-bit architecture hardware / firmware in UEFI mode if I replace both 

                                                  

           install.wim - mount -> \Windows\boot\EFI\bootmgfw.efi (x86)  ->  \Windows\boot\EFI\bootmgfw.efi (x64)  

 

and   

                                                                    \EFI\Boot\bootia32.efi ( x86 )   ->  \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi ( x64 )  

 

 

Thanks in Advance.....


Edited by devdevadev, 04 July 2014 - 07:28 AM.


#39 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 09:57 AM

Hello Everyone......



Greeting of the Day.............



Is it possible to install 32-bit 'Win 8.1 U1' on 64-bit architecture hardware / firmware in UEFI mode if I replace both



install.wim - mount -> \Windows\boot\EFI\bootmgfw.efi (x86) -> \Windows\boot\EFI\bootmgfw.efi (x64)



and

\EFI\Boot\bootia32.efi ( x86 ) -> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi ( x64 )





Thanks in Advance.....

Just try doing it.
 
Two possibilities:
1) it works
2) It does not work
 
IF the question was "Does it makes sense to ...." the answer is NO.
 
I wonder what is the real meaning of these pages :unsure::
http://blogs.msdn.co...fi-support.aspx
http://support.lenov...ocID=SF13-T0008
 
Maybe they mean that the UEFI firmware must have the same bit width than the OS installed in UEFI mode? :dubbio:
 
:duff:
Wonko
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#40 devdevadev

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:02 AM

OK......

 

But what files a 64-bit UEFI Firmware looks into a OS Setup in order to identify/judge that installing OS is 64-bit/32-bit ?

 

i.e. What are the files in a 64-Bit OS which allow it to install in UEFI mode ?

 

 

Regards......


Edited by devdevadev, 05 July 2014 - 09:11 AM.


#41 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 11:32 AM

OK......

 

But what files a 64-bit UEFI Firmware looks into a OS Setup in order to identify/judge that installing OS is 64-bit/32-bit ?

 

i.e. What are the files in a 64-Bit OS which allow it to install in UEFI mode ?

 

 

Regards......

 


 

Once you will have read thoroughly the above, you will have the needed understanding of the BIOS booting process, with particular reference to grub4dos and BOOTMGR, then read this site (the whole site AND links provided in it):

http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/

and you will have a fair idea of EFi/UEFI booting.

Start by reading this (linked to in the above):

http://homepage.ntlw...ot-process.html

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

 

 

 

:duff:

Wonko







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