Jump to content











Photo

Windows 8.1 (UEFI Boot) Issues


  • Please log in to reply
248 replies to this topic

#26 misty

misty

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 703 posts
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:40 PM

Doesn't recoverydrive.exe work the same in 8.1 as it did in 8.0?

I'd never heard of or used this feature before today.
 

I have no idea on how exactly the recoverydrive.exe works, which files uses as "source" and what (the heck) it stupidly puts on the stupid USB stick, but it shouldn't be that difficult to find out, if anyone with a 8.1 install is willing to experiment and report.

I've not compared md5 checksums, however based on the file size and timestamp I would take an educated guess and state that the boot.wim created on the USB stick when running recoverydrive.exe is in fact a renamed WinRE.wim.

First time I tried running recoverydrive.exe it wouldn't work due to missing files. I set my (self contained) Windows 8.1 partition as active and rebooted and it worked. Taking a guess I'd say that the BCD store might be used to locate winre.wim - as this was not available on my first attempt (due to chainloading bootmgr via grub4dos - with grub4dos in it's own (active) boot partition) it failed.

It's nice to learn new things :cheers:

Regards,

Misty

EDIT - in terms of the missing files - I don't have a full list - or in fact any list. wpeinit.exe is missing though.

#27 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:26 AM

EDIT - in terms of the missing files - I don't have a full list - or in fact any list. wpeinit.exe is missing though.

But maybe it can be replaced by some other PnP initiator :unsure:

In any case IMHO one should first need to find out if installs without a winRE exist at all, and only if they don't exist, then create the list of the unavailable files, and only then look for replacements.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#28 misty

misty

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 703 posts
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:39 AM

In any case IMHO one should first need to find out if installs without a winRE exist at all...

My concern would be how much damage an OEM has done to it. I haven't used an OEM cannibalised customised WinPE/WinRE in years as I detest the crapware the majority of OEM's insist on adding to Windows (and WinPE/WinRE). The first thing I do with a new (to me) PC is wipe the damn thing and install a clean version of Windows (see here) - as a consequence I can exercise some control over where WinRE is copied during the installation.

Please bare in mind that OEM's are unlikely to ship with a standard WinRE - the last time I used an OEM WinRE it was purely a means to launch the OEM's recovery partition to restore to factory settings.

I recently ran the disk management GUI on a friends Lenovo G580 laptop - imagine my surprise when I noticed approximately 7 bloody partitions on it - He assured me that this was how it came from the shop. Only two of these partitions were mounted - the rest were hidden recovery partitions (+ an EFI partition as this was a Windows 8.1 UEFI system with secure boot enabled) - god only knows if/where WinRE might be on this setup.

In my experience OEM's are a law unto themselves. Is WinRE mandatory? Do OEM's care? Do OEM's follow the MS recommendations? Some of the recovery disks I have been forced to use in the past have been truly awful - hence my many years spent tinkering with WinPE.

Now the ability to compile a WinPE from files (individual files and not an existing WinRE.wim/boot.wim/etc) on an installed OS would be fantastic - unfortunately it's outside my area of expertise (and competence). Even if it were not, I don't have the time. Anyone up for the challenge?

:cheers:

Regards,

Misty

#29 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:58 AM

That is the point on which we need more data, and on which I may be overly optimistic :), but on which you sound maybe too much pessimistic :(.
 
Mind you, you are perfectly right :thumbup:, historically large OEM's, including, to name a few, HP, Dell and IBM/Lenovo :ph34r: have made much more damages than any good inventing their own crazy recovery methods, hidden partitions, non-standard MBR codes, the senseless (HP and Lenovo) 240 Heads geometry, changed permissions on Registry hives in install media (Dell), "queer", crippled or plainly "wrong" BIOSes (all three of them and a few more), but it seems like Windows 8/8.1 has changed (at least partially) the rules of the game.
 
AFAIK/AFAICU the "standard" WinRE is "standard", as it is used when the system for whatever reason fails:
http://technet.micro...y/hh825173.aspx
then the OEM can ADD a supplemental recovery method and/or add "specific" tools to the WinRE environment, customizing it, but still the "base" functionalities should be present.
I mean, it seems like a WinRE.wim must be present on disk, to be compliant with these functions:
http://technet.micro...y/hh825173.aspx
 

In some situations, Windows RE automatically tries to repair the system. Also, these situations automatically cause a failover to Windows RE:

  • Two consecutive failed attempts to start Windows.
  • Two consecutive unexpected shutdowns that occur within two minutes of boot completion.
  • A Secure Boot error (except for issues related to Bootmgr.efi).
  • A BitLocker error on touch-only devices.
 
and it is unlikely that it's contents will not be PE based. :dubbio:
 
:duff:
Wonko

#30 misty

misty

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 703 posts
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:07 AM

Note to self - Glass is half full ;)

Thanks for this information and the links - I'm about to start packing for a weekend camping trip so I'll check them out on my return. Unfortunately I haven't actually got a Windows 8/8.1 OEM PC to play around with - my Windows 8(.1) usage has been restricted to the Enterprise Evaluation releases which I have installed myself on an old Lenovo Thinkpad.

#31 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:27 AM

Unfortunately I haven't actually got a Windows 8/8.1 OEM PC to play around with - my Windows 8(.1) usage has been restricted to the Enterprise Evaluation releases which I have installed myself on an old Lenovo Thinkpad.

Was it working too well/too fast and you found a way to slow it down a little?  :unsure:

:buehehe:

 

Happy camping. :)

 

:duff:

Wonko
 



#32 simonking

simonking

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 236 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:42 AM

Hope I caught you before you left! Have a great trip at the great outdoors. I really appreciate the scripts you have provided. Since Jaclaz assures me that the MSFT license is not an issue, I believe the cleanest approach for me right now is to interface with WAIK using the scripts you provided and through the InstallAware downloader in the setup wizard for the necessary WAIK components.

 

As for using files on the system directly; in addition to the wpeinit mention, where do you find a clean registry? Where do you obtain a copy of a virgin registry? Otherwise, one could probably enumerate all files and folders in an existing PE installation and just replicate that setup, no? Easy enough. However, how about blank, clean, registry hives? That's where I've been more concerned about the viability of that approach.

 

Last but not least - yes, I need Win PE 5.1 - simply because I am trying to do this so I can support WIMBoot! Although, if I could fully retire WIMGAPI and use WIMLIB only; then it might become unnecessary too. Eric is doing a great job supporting the library, so that is really a big helping hand here.

 

Again, enjoy the great outdoors!



#33 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 27 June 2014 - 01:10 PM

Easy enough. However, how about blank, clean, registry hives? That's where I've been more concerned about the viability of that approach.

 

Are you joking, right? :unsure:

 

Open Regedit, select a "simple" hive, like (say):

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Select

Right click and select "export".

Choose to save as "Registry Hive Files" with name (still say) "myselect.hiv"

 

What do you think is "myselect.hiv"? :dubbio:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#34 Tripredacus

Tripredacus

    Frequent Member

  • Expert
  • 234 posts
  • Interests:K-Mart-ian Legend
  •  
    United States

Posted 27 June 2014 - 02:09 PM

Please bare in mind that OEM's are unlikely to ship with a standard WinRE - the last time I used an OEM WinRE it was purely a means to launch the OEM's recovery partition to restore to factory settings.

In my experience OEM's are a law unto themselves. Is WinRE mandatory? Do OEM's care? Do OEM's follow the MS recommendations? Some of the recovery disks I have been forced to use in the past have been truly awful - hence my many years spent tinkering with WinPE.


Rules (read licensing and policy) had changed over the years. For XP through 7, OEMs had to provide a recovery solution, but the specific method was not specified. It could either be a CD/DVD or Hard disk based. XP had no RE so you had various recovery options including SoftThinks like on HP. For Vista there was an RE but the OEM had to create the recovery software. The SoftThinks for XP (for example) did not work for Vista and a different one was released. I recall my experience as being if we couldn't get the Vista one created and working then we'd have to buy the new SoftThinks software for Vista. Fortunately, it worked just fine. :)

Windows 7 came with an RE and a pre-compiled software (recenv) with the ability to add additional tools to the menu. At this point many OEM used the MS one because it was free but the other third-party companies still exist (even now). With Windows 8 a change was made. Enabling recovery is a requirement but it still doesn't specifically prohibit the use of a third-party software.

I can assure you there does exist OEMs that use the stock WinRE software and do not install any bloatware. Unfortunately those types do not operate in the Retail Channel. ;)

#35 simonking

simonking

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 236 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:52 PM

Jaclaz, surely you're going insane again. Nice trick on saving registry hives, but how does it help us to export a user's already-filled-up registry when trying to build a virgin PE environment?



#36 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:01 PM

Jaclaz, surely you're going insane again. Nice trick on saving registry hives, but how does it help us to export a user's already-filled-up registry when trying to build a virgin PE environment?

Well you asked how to create blank, clean registry hives:

 

 

As for using files on the system directly; in addition to the wpeinit mention, where do you find a clean registry? Where do you obtain a copy of a virgin registry? Otherwise, one could probably enumerate all files and folders in an existing PE installation and just replicate that setup, no? Easy enough. However, how about blank, clean, registry hives? That's where I've been more concerned about the viability of that approach.

 

Or maybe I misunderstood your preoccupation? :unsure:

 

 

:duff:

Wonko



#37 simonking

simonking

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 236 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:04 PM

Maybe your trick can be used on a mounted, running Windows PE instance to export everything; if you get what I mean.

 

Of course, even in that scenario, one could just copy the registry hives straight off the Windows PE instance, I suppose.

 

Would that be legal, I wonder? We have to make sure we're protecting the interests of Microsoft, lest we step on toes!



#38 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:27 PM

Well you can simply make a copy of the relevant registry hives from the running system, or provide a "blank" registry hive and populate it online or offline, copying entries from the running system, making new ones or editing them, as said, this is the least of the issues.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#39 simonking

simonking

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 236 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:19 PM

What about the entries for all the installed apps; they will fail because they're not installed!



#40 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 28 June 2014 - 10:39 AM

The whatever you are smoking must be really good. :)

 

What an installer does generally  is to copy a bunch of files and write needed entries in the Registry, but nothing prevents anyone from writing these needed entries in a different way (like typing them manually :w00t: or importing a .Reg file, etc.), the Registry is nothing but a database (and a filesystem, and a filesystem is a database,  BTW).

 

:duff:

Wonko



#41 simonking

simonking

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 236 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:10 PM

"Mr. King, what have you been smoking?" retorted Wonko.

 

"I know what I am smoking, but I don't know what you're smoking!" answered Simon, and he went on:

 

"If you export an existing registry hive, it will be populated with all kinds of registry entries from existing installed programs. Weeding these out would be a monumental effort. If they are not weeded out, surely they would cause problems like hell across the system, due to missing files, etc.

 

Even if you exported a fresh installation of Windows, it would still contain all kinds of hardware specific information. Plus, we don't even know if and how Windows PE registry is different from the Windows registry found in regular, non-PE, "Desktop" Windows installations. This is not in terms of your wise cracking file format lecture, of course; but in terms of the actual *content* of the registry itself.

 

So get off your high horse for once," Simon fired back. "Consider the technical implications of what you are suggesting - technically, it doesn't even make sense. The soundest approach would be to copy the hives fresh off a PE instance, and it is only here, that your wise-cracking, pseudo-legal advice may actually apply." Simon hissed, blowing out thick white smoke from his illegally imported Cuban cigar; and eyeing Wonko carefully for his next move.



#42 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:28 PM

Even if you exported a fresh installation of Windows, it would still contain all kinds of hardware specific information. Plus, we don't even know if and how Windows PE registry is different from the Windows registry found in regular, non-PE, "Desktop" Windows installations. This is not in terms of your wise cracking file format lecture, of course; but in terms of the actual *content* of the registry itself.

Well, you might not know what a "full" install Registry contains and what a "PE" Registry contains instead, but strangely enough, it is just a matter of comparing them and finding the differences, AND to know how (and which) parts of a PE registry are built on-the-fly, and this can be easily found out by comparing the registry of an offline PE with a copy of the same PE registry once booted.

 

Additionally what you are seemingly missing is the point - and this has not been in any way proved definitely false - that on all Windows 8.1 installs does exist a WinRE environment, either "default" Microsoft or tweaked/modified by the OEM, that is a PE of some kind and that represents in any case a very basic "skeleton" of a PE.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#43 simonking

simonking

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 236 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:44 PM

"Impractical to the extreme," Simon said, shaking his head, and waving his hand to clear a path from him to Wonko, through the thick cloud of smoke now enveloping the room. To Wonko, seeing through the thick haze in the room, Simon's eyes appeared like those of a snake. Wonko wasn't even sure anymore if it was an illegally imported cigar Simon was smoking, or whether it was another kind of substance, illegal altogether.

 

"You cannot manually do what you described, its just impossible. You could try to use automated tools that will show you the differences between two registries; but actually *building* a clean registry hive which encapsulates this information is again, near nigh impossible. There's just no off-the-shelf components to do it with, and you might as well try and go to Mars, if you're going to build it all from the ground up."

 

"I also cannot count on WinRE, unless it is installed by Windows setup by default," grunted Simon. His eyes shone now. "Why would I lock the great tool I am building to run on OEM hardware only? Ridiculous, and short-sighted to the extreme!" Simon banged his fist on the table, giving Wonko an unexpected jolt. "I want my tool to run everywhere, and by that, I mean everywhere!"



#44 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:09 PM

The substance is slowly further affecting the already reduced intellectual capabilities of Simon ...

 

He starts mixing liberally the contents of various posts into a misty suffusion of yellow ...

 

Quick recap, before the substance completely takes control and Simon passes away:

  1. The WinRE environment is a COMPULSORY part of ALL Windows 8.1 installs. <- fact (to be eventually disproved)
  2. OEM are allowed to modify the WinRE environment ADDing proprietary programs and to ADD "external" alternative recovery systems/methods. <- fact (to be eventually disproved)
  3. Some particularly stupid OEM may have decided to spend an awful lot of money to develop *something* that REPLACES the WinRE environment maintaining the functionalities evidenced in post #29 through an environment that is not a WinRE <- hypothesis (to be eventually proved)

Simon's eyes (that from the beginning seemed a lot more similar to those of a frightened puppy than of a snake) finally close and he can in his sleep start dreaming about his whatever app that will work on everything, notwithstanding what the naysayers told him.

 

The warnings about the trickyiness of current UEFI implementations, the legal complexities, each and every problem that he may face when actually developing this and distributing it to the large public, they are all far away and irrelevant in the yellow mist he is immersed in and he is peaceful at last. :)

 

:duff:

Wonko



#45 simonking

simonking

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 236 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:01 PM

Hmm, is this WinRE the partition that comes at the end of the disk, where the recovery partition is found? If so, it could be deleted by the user; I have done this many times myself.

 

Or, is it located at the very start of the disk - where there's some weird looking partitions? If so, it would make sense that it would be available anywhere.

 

Again, you cannot count on any particular setup put forth by an OEM. So, if when you take your own install ISO, say from your MSDN account, and install Windows yourself manually, would the WinRE always exist in that scenario - regardless of what OEMs are supposed to do (and how they may actually mangle it)?

 

Assume that WinRE is located at the start of the disk, and it also passes the other conditions laid forth in this post (present even in self-done ISO install). How does then, one, actually "tap" into this WinRE environment, and run his or her own app in there at boot time?

 

Simon smiles contentedly :)



#46 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder

  • Advanced user
  • 13745 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 28 June 2014 - 04:35 PM

No, even if it seems that you can put together an apparently logical set of sentences, you are evidently not entirely out of the effects of the substance :( and/or you completely failed to document yourself on the matter and/or you completely failed to read a number of posts in this very thread, and/or the effects of the substance were much faster than expected (maybe it contained some resublimated thiotimoline :w00t: and managed to affect you even before you started smoking it) and you failed to understand the meaning of the contents of some of these posts, namely posts #25, #26, #27, #28 and #29).

 

The WinRE environment is "residing" inside a smartly :unsure: named winre.wim, i.e. it is a file within the Windows 8/8.1 partition, the presence of this file is mandatory (according to the MS documentation, try reading again the reference in post #29).

 

The difference that you still seeming fail to grasp entirely is that in Vista the WinRE was optional and rarely used, in Windows 7 it was optional and actually rather widely used, in Windows 8/8.1 it is mandatory as it is part of the built-in troubleshooting and repair process.

 

See if this only seemingly unrelated article helps you in understanding the above.

http://www.terabyteu...icle.php?id=587

as you can gather from the above the winre.wim resides in \Windows\System32\Recovery and is part of the "recoverysequence".

 

As highlighted in the above it is well possible that the install is botched and/or that the user deletes it, but in this case that would be a "botched" Windows 8/8.1 install anyway.

 

So, one might consider having a "plan A" and a plan "B"

 

Carpenter's comparison:

Imagine that you have to (say) repair a wooden cabinet and you need 3 (three) wood screws, 35x3 mm.

What do you do:

A. look among the tins of screws you have at home to see if you can find those three screws or some screw that would do anyway and then ONLY IF you cannot find them use plan B. below

B. drive all 35 miles (5 of which off-road) to the nearest hardware store to buy a full box of 500 35x3 mm wood screws (497 of which you will throw away as soon as you exit the shop)

 

:duff:

Wonko 



#47 misty

misty

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 703 posts
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 28 June 2014 - 06:01 PM

Contents of \Windows\System32\Recovery in install.wim (\sources\install.wim) from Windows 8.1 (Update 1) Enterprise Evaluation -
  • ReAgent.xml
  • Winre.wim
In my own setup the hard disk was partitioned manually before installing Windows. The target Windows partition was set as active before running the installer - this ensured that the windows partition was self contained and included the BCD store, boot files, WinRE and the Windows OS files.

Just checked and Winre.wim is NOT in C:\Windows\System32\Recovery - during the installation is was copied to C:\recovery\WindowsRE\Winre.wim. This is obviously not an OEM installation.

I have never installed Windows on an unpartitioned hard disk. I recall reading somewhere that, if installing Windows 7 on an unpartitioned hard disk, a seperate partition is created during the installation for boot files and WinRE - I have never confirmed this. This may or may not apply to Windows 8.1 (or Windows 7 for that matter!).

Regards,

Misty

#48 misty

misty

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 703 posts
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:03 PM

Misty said, whilst shaking his head - "my Windows 8(.1) usage has been restricted to the Enterprise Evaluation releases which I have installed myself on an old Lenovo Thinkpad."
 

Was it working too well/too fast and you found a way to slow it down a little? :unsure:
:buehehe:

retorted Wonko

Misty replied, whilst laughing insanely to himself - "After several years running a stable OS without any major problems (Windows 7) I thought I could do with a challenge and upgraded to an OS I don't even need - mmmmmwwwwahahahahahaha"

In all seriousness, I actually like Windows 8.1. I accept that I be in the minority. I also accept that this could imply I am going crackers, losing my marbles, going bananas, a fruit loop, ...

It kind of reminds me of the Windows Vista debates (remember Ot: Are You Vista Ready?).

Regards,

Misty

#49 misty

misty

    Silver Member

  • Developer
  • 703 posts
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:41 PM

I believe the cleanest approach for me right now is to interface with WAIK using the scripts you provided and through the InstallAware downloader in the setup wizard for the necessary WAIK components.

Why? You could just download 6d3c63e785ac9ac618ae3f1416062098.cab or 690b8ac88bc08254d351654d56805aea.cab and extract and rename the contents (e.g. to boot.wim) - I can't remember which one is x86 and which one is x64. BTW, the URL is (or at least was) http://download.micr...adk/Installers/ - e.g. http://download.micr...f1416062098.cab
 

Last but not least - yes, I need Win PE 5.1 - simply because I am trying to do this so I can support WIMBoot! Although, if I could fully retire WIMGAPI and use WIMLIB only; then it might become unnecessary too.

WIMBoot is a nice feature that I played around with just out of curiosity and haven't touched in a couple of months - so I could be wrong, however I seem to recall that wimlib does in fact support capturing the only OS that actually supports the wimboot feature (Windows 8.1 Update 1) and then creating a wimboot installation - without the WinPE 5.1 requirement (see here).

Enjoy your early retirement WinPE 5.1!

Regards,

Misty

#50 simonking

simonking

    Frequent Member

  • Advanced user
  • 236 posts
  •  
    Australia

Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:01 AM

Hey, that's some helpful research, Misty! I also checked my own c:\windows\system32\recovery folder, and I only have reagent.xml there.

 

Just to make sure that my Surface Pro 2 development system hadn't also gotten itself into narcotics here (like its persistent boot problems); I checked two VMs - both Windows 8.1, clean install, one i386 and the other amd64 - both had the recovery\reagent.xml, but nothing else. Since these were virgin installs off of boot CDs, there's no way I can count on WinRE being present there on end-user systems.

 

So I will download the files you pointed to using InstallAware when the DoubleSpace feature is selected in the ZIPmagic install, and fix up the boot.wim file as part of the setup process; and add it to the boot menu. Presto! It should work. Super exciting :) Did I get the roadmap right?

 

You can check the WIMBoot tool I wrote in its latest incarnation right now (DoubleSpace). It works on my Surface Pro 2 development system. Which is to say a lot, given how many boot issues this system normally has with VHDs, etc.! Really satisfying!

 

http://reboot.pro/to...pression-betas/

 

I am having some troubles on some other systems still; so please don't use this on a production environment unless you have a full backup - it is very much a beta, both on the DoubleSpace app side and the WIMLIB DLL side (I just got a new WIMLIB update from Eric, so I will add that in to the next build - maybe in the next hour or so, if I am lucky).

 

How were the wild outdoors, then? Any nice campfire stories? :)

 

"As Misty, Simon, and Jaclaz were sitting by the now dwindling campfire, a person approached from the darkness.

 

The group called out: 'Who is it?'"

 

Someone answered:


Edited by simonking, 29 June 2014 - 12:02 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users