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Windows 9.0 discussion


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#1 Nuno Brito

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:00 PM

Windows 9 is around the corner, embrace yourselves..

 

The desktop for win32 apps is gone.

 

http://bgr.com/2014/...d-release-date/

windows-9-concept-1.jpg

 

 

 



#2 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:10 AM

are you sure win32 apps will no longer run ?

M$ is now too big NOT to fail its os 

 

instead of rewriting , rereading its all code , M$ always adds new thingies .

the registry of my w2012 is just below 320 Mo....and if i launch a virus like some exe from the web that installs many softwares , services and others webpages ....windows does not stop them or is not capable of "recovering" the windows like it was before i launched the first exe .

 

google will make a very good os ;']



#3 Nuno Brito

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 07:56 PM

are you sure win32 apps will no longer run ?

 

Not what I meant, sorry if it was understood that way. What I meant is that you the traditional desktop apps are deprecated.

 

The tendency will now move to apps that can run both on ARM and Intel architectures. I'm quite sure that if business pushes enough, they will maintain a virtual machine for running legacy Win32 software. In the same manner as see already for x64 architectures running 32 and 16bit software.

 

Not really high-tech either.

 

google will make a very good os ;']

 

I think this already a reality today with Android, which by all accounts is gaining millions of new users per day. The biggest problem is the tradeoff of your own privacy.



#4 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 10:20 PM

so all aps are 64 bit , that will kill a lot if 32 bit does not run .

M$ made xp mode with win 7 but removed it with 8 , will that be back ?

something now running in 64bit is chrome from google : https://www.google.c...?platform=win64

 

google os is also chrome os , in france a lot of "high tech" or culture shop oriented computers are selling computers having it , but its no longer available as a "distro" or i am wrong .

never seen or used android because i dislike mobile



#5 Agent47

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 09:53 AM

A developer preview version of 9 is pending to be released on next month but leaked screenshots from legit sources (build 9841 ) are already floating on the net.

 

http://www.infoworld...-windows-9.html



#6 Tripredacus

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 01:55 PM

Microsoft cannot be so stupid to release an OS that you can't run 32bit apps on, can they?



#7 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 02:18 PM

Microsoft cannot be so stupid to release an OS that you can't run 32bit apps on, can they?

By the same token board members cannot omit to check the date on which the reference article was posted, can they? :whistling:.

 

Besides the nice (coincidental) joke on the date, the Author of the article doesn't sound (to me at least :ph34r:) someone who actually knows what a byte or a bit are, and he simply quotes the usual "I can shoot in the dark because someone told me where to shoot, or however I can pretend someone did, as people believes I am clever at getting confidential info in advance that can be proved completely wrong at any time"  Mary Jo Foley from ZDnet:

http://www.zdnet.com...ion-7000024092/

 

Techno-gossip at it's best.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#8 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 03:45 PM

Wonko, I read the article you mention and get even more disappointed about the future on Windows. ;(

 

I mean. Why this ongoing nonsense about architectures and different Windows kinds running on different devices which are only getting each time more similar in terms of hardware capabilities. Just sad to see this complication over something that is relatively straightforward today.

 

On this time and date there is no justification (and exists urgency) to consolidate Windows as much as possible. Give it a UI for phones, one for tablets, one for desktops but make the engine underneath to be the same and be done with it. This is not science fiction, Ubuntu already got this kind of thing working for almost three years now.

 

 

 



#9 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 04:14 PM

ubuntu did nothing , for once this is linus torvald kernel that does it ....

windows was more oriented cpu in the past with its nt3.5 or 4 being able to run on itanium , powerpc , alpha and mips

 

it is something like not having all eggs in the same bag , may be ...

like all in here , i would prefer an os optimized for my cpu instead of something that should be run-able on many kind of cpus ...

 

like it is with games that can play on all boxe$ but are in fact very low and not fun on pcs ...



#10 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 05:40 PM

Maybe some confusion going on here.
 

ubuntu did nothing , for once this is linus torvald kernel that does it .

 
Linus certainly, has it's merit on the kernel (and many other folks in the process). What we are talking here is slightly different if you note.
 
Perhaps I should clarify that what I appraise on this context is how Ubuntu solves the apparent division between a cellphone/table and a normal desktop as seen on the video. The more modern edition got more independent, no longer requiring the symbiosis between Android and Ubuntu.
 

i would prefer an os optimized for my cpu instead of something that should be run-able on many kind of cpus ...

 

Sure. And I prefer my software to run in any modern CPU without need to re-compile. You see, we both have different preferences because of different objectives. Your preference is performance for high demanding games, mine is running a software piece across multiple types of devices with reduced effort.

 

This is already in practice with the Android/Java/Native code combo. Developers with a performance requirement will optimize for speed with native C code while the rest of us write in plain Java/Dalvik for the sake of portability. To finish it off, Android runs happily on the TV, phone and tablet. It just works, no fuss.

 

It's 2014. Cellphones and tablets with quad-core processors are replacing the dual-core processors in healthy pace. Right now I see a bunch of great tech-innovations fighting to break into the future and I can't really say the same for Windows. Very disappointing.

 

 

 



#11 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 06:28 PM

of course ubuntu is a cool member of the free software world , like opera browser that makes a quite good browser for windows but have no success and is a leader in the mobile world . i was a user of ubuntu at release 9.04 ...with gnome 3 i changed for mint cinamon mostly because of the menu and also because mint has a delete that does not do a bkup in a basket .............it is very cool to delete the windows bkup folders with it ;']

when i say that i prefer an os made for my cpu , i "mean" that M$ should publish a lot of the same release like a win9  for all generations of i3 i5 i7 xeon ....i think intel is at the fourth , same goes with amd cpu . 

if a company like transmeta , that employed torvald , did not live very long , that also came from the fact no linux or windows was tailored for its 128 bit system ...



#12 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:07 PM

Transmeta was innovative for its 15 minutes of fame, not strictly related to Linux (the kernel) or Linus (the engineer) but they did managed to shake the usual chip manufacturers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmeta

 

I still remember having a Sony Vaio equipped with a Transmeta Crusoe CPU around 2000. It was an ultra-portable (as called at the time) and the CPU switched velocities on its own to lessen the battery usage and adjust performance. The laptop was initially packed with ME and then I moved to XP. It was fast and small, simply good stuff.

 

trans_vaiosm.jpg

 

 

If you note from my link to the wiki of Transmeta, read the part where Intel explicitly restricted Transmeta from ever producing an x86 compatible CPU again. All this to say that the company itself didn't live long because it was squeezed down by the two big guys in the industry. Not because of its innovation value, which was remarkable.

 

If Microsoft went forth to release Windows for each CPU available, it would need to develop the virtual machines needed for people like me to see their software running without need for re-compile. Not that I'm lazy, but some years from now I might simply no longer be around.

 

Interesting enough, Transmeta as a CPU was a virtual machine by itself. It would emulate other CPUs such as x86, already 15 years ago. So, I still see this mentality by Microsoft to keep CPUs as some sort of barrier to be driven by business interests that don't really match with "I" and possibly many others would see as better interest: to run my software either on a cellphone or desktop with little worries other than adapting the display.

 

:cheers:



#13 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:09 AM

intel has changed a lot , its engineers are all thinking they are "Hallawood Superstars" , they compete a lot with The HollyWood Superstars when it comes to buy house or do some big-fiesta...but it has a price that customers have to pay ....

personally my next board will be with amd cpu or , if intel , some second hand with very low price ...mostly because they are very expensive but also because they are used to have some burns on their surface , at least with 2 out of 3 last cpu i bought new ....the second that killed a pci card was very hard to have changed...the shop tester [ldlc.com] saying that my cpu was able to launch win7 so : "all ok" ....

 

about os optimizations by cpu , a big one like M$ can do that for its os to be better and stable , while dev like you can still create some software that can run on all cpu like win32 . win7 has already a system that checks softwares and "optimize " them : the prefetch if i am right 

beside that , a computer is very different from a mobile ...i have no idea about how the mobile 's cpu are , i think i would use the msdos-windows system [if it is possible] : i mean that an exe is made of two : one for windows and one for dos [most of the time only writing "software made for windows"

a system like that with more exe inside could help little dev to create optimized softwares for cpus...



#14 Vortex

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 06:39 AM

intel has changed a lot , its engineers are all thinking they are "Hallawood Superstars" , they compete a lot with The HollyWood Superstars when it comes to buy house or do some big-fiesta...but it has a price that customers have to pay ....

 

It has nothing to do with Hollywood stars. You have to study very very hard to reach the level of expertise to design CPUs. On the other hand, if you are a leader in the market, you can have control on some factors. Concerning operating systems, the essential problem is how you interpret or understand the designing philosophy :

 

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.

 

Albert Einstein
 

A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

 

Antoine de Saint Exupery



#15 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 07:23 AM

reach level of expertise ? i wonder if adding a gpu that is as good as pre-TL one , in all cpu is expertise ?

i mean that a lot of computers are sold with an i3 i5 that has the intel gpu for nothing because there is also a nv or ati card that takes the hand for the display ...beside that intel adverts that it makes 66 % of all gpu....

easy to be dumb like them like that

 

by the way here is the pdf of latest intel prices :

http://files.shareho...Price_List_.pdf

 

have a look at :

Intel® Xeon® processor 4800 series, 15, 12, 10, 8, and 6 core versions Sep'14 (9/05) Sep'14 (9/08) % Decrease
Server/Workstation (FCLGA12, FCLGA8) Price Price
 
top one 
E7-4890 v2 (37.5M cache, 15 Cores, 30 Threads, 2.80 GHz (155W) 8.00 GT/sec Intel® QPI), 22nm)
 
$6,619 $6,619 
 
entry one
E7-4807 (18M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 1.86 GHz (95W) 4.80 GT/sec Intel® QPI), 32nm)
 
$890 $890 
 
entry one is half the power of the top but price is 7.5 higher ...hard to believe mostly because they have same size and weight 
 
another link to a  table that compares official prices for the latest AMD and Intel desktop
 
amd has nothing above $300 , intel goes up to $999 ...


#16 Vortex

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 08:59 AM

 

reach level of expertise ? i wonder if adding a gpu that is as good as pre-TL one , in all cpu is expertise ?

i mean that a lot of computers are sold with an i3 i5 that has the intel gpu for nothing because there is also a nv or ati card that takes the hand for the display ...beside that intel adverts that it makes 66 % of all gpu....

easy to be dumb like them like that

 

 

Don't twist what I am telling. Designing CPUs \ GPUs and marketing \ selling them are totally different domains.



#17 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 09:12 AM

what do you think about prices   ?

adding a gpu is not that "idiot" , the problem is : it is not used nor useable for opencl ....

 

so it is a big waste of money for the final customer , i prefer an i7 with 4 cores ht and big cache , than i3 or i5 4 cores ht and no cache but a gpu not used all all....even celeron cpu have gpu....



#18 Vortex

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 09:18 AM

Yes, the prices can be overrated. I agree at this point. The problem is that many customers are not so conscious when buying those components.



#19 florin91

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:18 AM

Windows 9 is history. Is skipped. It seems that we need a new category for Windows 10. Be ready for the Technical Preview :D

[media]http://res1.windows.microsoft.com/resbox/en/windows/main/97d2829c-8d0d-4a5d-8db2-805fef99437f_21.ogv[/media] 

[media]http://res2.windows.microsoft.com/resbox/en/windows/main/af0a035a-0089-4114-a106-08788ea6117f_21.mp4[/media]

I give up. Can't embed. Here is the link: http://windows.micro...iew-coming-soon


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#20 Nuno Brito

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:43 AM

That's interesting Florin.

 

The funny part is reading: http://blogs.windows...ing-windows-10/

 

There, it seems that innovation is all about bringing back the old stuff like:

- start menu

- resizable windows

 

We’re not talking about one UI to rule them all – we’re talking about one product family, with a tailored experience for each device.

 

Seriously hope this time we get something usable from Microsoft. :)



#21 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:37 AM

The funny part is reading: http://blogs.windows...ing-windows-10/


With the Insider program, we’re inviting our most enthusiastic Windows customers to shape Windows 10 with us. 

 

I guess  I am not eligible for the invitation :whistling:.

 

Until they won't understand how when you fail to please a relevant part of your customers you have to listen to the suggestions of those ones (and not to the ones coming from those morons less experienced users or fanboys more enthusiastic people that actually liked the crap innovation  that WIndows 8 was), I doubt that there will be any actual enhancement.

 

I would expect Windows 10 to be "better" than Windows 8 (that's an easy one ;)) the point is whether it will be "better" than 7. :dubbio:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#22 Nuno Brito

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:08 PM

Yep. Windows 8 is the reason why I'm now using Linux Mint + XFCE as graphical environment.

 

Ironically enough, this Linux + XFCE combo is far more similar to a professional Windows 7 environment than the recent Windows 8. Under XFCE there is a functional start menu, runs fast as heck and simply doesn't get in the way.

 

btw. There is an added feature on the Linux side that I'm enjoying. It's called synapse and I stopped using the start menu because it is faster for me to launch the apps from there: http://lifehacker.co...ncher-for-linux

 

:)



#23 Nuno Brito

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:58 PM

Here an interesting argument on why Windows 9 will be skipped to 10 instead..
 
By4GyZdCUAAWuL3.png
 
https://twitter.com/...412161501798400
 
:cheers:

#24 Rootman

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:26 PM

Nuno, that's hilarious!  So in order for some crappy programming to not accidentally ID Windows 9 as Windows  95/98 they just skipped Windows 9 and go directly to 10.  That sounds too stupid to not be true.



#25 sixcentgeorge

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 06:01 AM

Nuno, that's hilarious!  So in order for some crappy programming to not accidentally ID Windows 9 as Windows  95/98 they just skipped Windows 9 and go directly to 10.  That sounds too stupid to not be true.

for sure you know more about the "Question" than M$...

these billionaires are all nuts when it comes to make things....viva ParisHilton ;']






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