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No USB option on BIOS boot menu ?


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#1 stevekramer99

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:10 AM

Hello I run Windows 7 32 bit OS, and I would also like to be able to run Ubuntu 64 bit from a USB drive.  When I get the boot menu there is no boot from USB option, only CD and floppy drive.  My BIOS is apparently HP F.21 5/22/2009.  The Boot menu says Phoenix BIOS at the top. Also, the factory OS was Vista.

 

Is there a way to get an OS to boot from USB through this BIOS?  If not, what do I have to do to make this work correctly?

 

thanks!

steve


Edited by stevekramer99, 03 December 2013 - 07:12 AM.


#2 Blackcrack

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:38 AM

maybe a bootmenu who be enables choose from an usb-device ..

the most bootmenu enables per f10 or F9 for become at boot

diffrent devices..

 

and in the bios mus enable from usb-boot or something for enabling to check the usb-device

for an usb-stick/disk or usb-cdrom.

and at last by boot can you press the Menu - F-key and select you bootdevice

 

but works only on the more new computers/bios ..

 

with computers last 2 jears or something works only 1-2 gig usb-sticks only be the

more newest Mainboards/Bios works the boot over 4 Gig and like i have become with.. works

since last year/this year start booting with an usb-stick with more as 8 Gig and other.. like usb-harddisk ..

 so, mus be you Hardware more newer , from this jear.. i guess ..

 

so-- try it with you F10/F9 key or what ever have the F-key for boormenu

and look in the bios configuration if it is enable for boot from usb , if this config exist in the Bios..

and dont forget before plugin you usb-device *g* before you boot the computer :)

 

best regards

Blacky



#3 stevekramer99

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:54 AM

Hello,

 

Yes I get the boot menu from pressing F10 on startup.  However, the list of options for booting does not have the USB option, only floppy disk and CD.  Do I need to get a new BIOS?  Is this possible?

 

thanks,

steve



#4 Blackcrack

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:57 AM

how old you computer ?



#5 stevekramer99

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:01 AM

The date shown next to the BIOS version says 5/22/2009, I think that is likely accurate.



#6 Blackcrack

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:08 AM

so, 2009-213, 4 Jears old.. humm.. bbeeeppppp -> tough luck .. No USB-Boot , you mus buy an new hardware ..

and p.s. no medion, no HP, try to build up you own computer in sinle parts, because,

you have garentee for 2 Jears and if anywhat goes crash .. can you change the single part :)

 

Mainboard with an soundcard on board (~70-90$), CPU(~100$), Graficcard (tip, an 610 gt or GTX (more expensive but better) with 2 Gig ~60$

and Ram , and you need sata-drives -> Sata-DVDRram(Burner) ~30$ and SATA-Harddisk(500Gig ~50$)

 

try to take an AMD-4Core, because the VBox support in the CPU for have the possible

for use the CPU-Support in the VirtualBox :) VirtualBox -> OpenSource , an Computer Emulator in the Real Computer :)

 

 

an keyboard and mouse do you have :)

 

best regards

Blacky



#7 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:04 AM

so, 2009-213, 4 Jears old.. humm.. bbeeeppppp -> tough luck .. No USB-Boot , you mus buy an new hardware ..

A rather apodictical kind of statement. :w00t:

 

It is EXTREMELY RARE that any Desktop PC manufactured after -say - 2003 or 2004 has not an option for USB booting, while it is rather common that laptops up to - say - 2007 or 2008 miss it or have it not working properly.

2009 is recent enough to have that option in the BIOS, though HP (and a number of other "big" OEM's) have been reknown to "limit" or remove features form BIOSes.

 

@stevekramer99

Post the EXACT model of your PC and the EXACT BIOS string, it is possible that a "modded" BIOS exists for it.

 

In any case there are a couple of possible workarounds, namely making use of PLoP which is largely tested:

http://www.plop.at/

or the newish experimental version of grub4dos:

http://code.google.c.../downloads/list

that has an USB stack added.

 

:cheers:

Wonko


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#8 Blackcrack

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:59 AM

A rather apodictical kind of statement. :w00t:

 

oh the big massa gain.. hey, if i am make it with a bit fun, don't need it to be interrestet you..

if have you an other oppinion , have it, but let me in peace oky ..  i do you not setting down like you me, so ..

 get you statement and let me in peace oky.. Mr. Overlord ..

 

chears ..



#9 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:21 AM

Well, if you post something, and particularly when what you post advises a new user to spend money for new hardware as the "only" solution, it would be advisable that your suggestion is based on some factual data.

 

USB specifications were released:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB

USB 1.0 year 1996

USB 1.1 year 1998

USB 2.0 year 2000

 

The common implementation of the Usb Mass Storage subset and bootability from it dates back - as said to 2003/2004 and PLoP was developed starting in 2007:

http://www.plop.at/e...mngrusblog.html

exactly because while desktops had largely USB booting support in their BIOS, a vast number of laptops still had it not, or had it limited to a preset size of the device or not fully working.

 

:cheers:

Wonko


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#10 Blackcrack

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:29 AM

was only my solution of the problem, it's of course, it exist various of solutions.. Seniore' ..

and to be my solution the "one and only" Solution, i have never claims !

That you're trying to put me in the mouth !

but it's the best method for be up to date ..



#11 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:16 AM

but it's the best method for be up to date ..

Sure :), the day before yesterday my wife's car did not start in the morning (it was rather cold) so I had to start it by using some cables connected to my car's battery.

We then took her car to the nearby Renault dealer's workshop and I somehow managed to convince the guy there to replace the battery even if he initially suggested that since a 2009 Renault was a bit oldish, in order to be up to date it was advised to buy a new car instead.

Just for the record, he didn't suggest to buy a Rolls Royce and employ a professional driver for driving it, even if that would have been another possible solution to "my wife's car did not start in the morning" problem.

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#12 stevekramer99

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:57 PM

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and detailed information!

 

The exact model of my laptop is a HP Pavillion tx1308nr.

 

Extra Info:

I have upgraded the original hard drive to a 320GB, and installed Win 732 bit OS, Vista 32bit was the factory OS.  I only mention this because it says this in the boot menu so I thought it was probably important.  I would like to run Ubuntu 12 64 bit for some programs that require it.

 

I have also checked on the HP site, and the helper system there concluded that there was no updated BIOS for my laptop with Windows 7 installed.

 

I used CPU-Z to get all of the information about the hardware, I will try to upload the report file if I can, it has a lot of detailed info on the motherboard, processor etc.  I am looking into your suggestions today!



#13 stevekramer99

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:09 PM

I can't seem to paste anything into the reply box that I have copied from anywhere else, and I don't see an upload file option... am I missing something here?

 

Beyond that, I have one extra question -

 

When or if, I get Ubuntu to run from USB, is there any significant limitation to Ubuntu running from the USB?  In particular, can the USB OS utilize the existing laptop hard drive or another external drive?

 

For example could I install large programs onto the hard drive using the Ubuntu 64bit OS or do they have to be installed on the USB?   Can programs installed with the Ubuntu 64 bit OS utilize the hard drive space? 

 

 

thanks!

steve


Edited by stevekramer99, 03 December 2013 - 04:19 PM.


#14 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:26 PM

Generically speaking, once an OS has booted, all the hardware connected to the PC can be accessed (and yes, this includes the internal hard disk).

 

The issue here (or non-issue, it depends) is that you have to understand how on one hand anything going through an USB bus, including version 2.0, will be much slower when compared to the same thing installed on an internal disk and, on the other hand, that it is NOT a good idea to have the same volume used by two different operating systems (if not for "pure" data storage).

 

Specifically, at 99.99% the internal hard disk of your PC will have a single volume in it, formatted as NTFS, and while the Ubuntu should have support for that filesystem, some of the characteristics of NTFS (quotas, ownership, access limitations, etc.) may not be fully compatible with it in the sense that the Ubuntu may create files/folders that Windows 7 tools/programs may not "like".

 

So, even if one way or the other we manage to have the thingy boot from USB, if the final goal is to have for anything more than a "test" or "experiment" the possibility of running a Linux on that system, the recommended procedure is to re-partition the hard disk, creating a second volume (formatted as Ext2/3/4) and install to it the Linux, i.e. set up a classical "dual boot" system with Windows 7 and Ubuntu 64.

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#15 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:26 PM

The exact model of my laptop is a HP Pavillion tx1308nr.

It is this one?

http://h10025.www1.h...t=3769072#N1816

The BIOS available is 2009-09-04 , VersionF.21 A but it is seemingly an "Insyde" BIOS (and seemingly it has support for USB booting).

According to this:

http://h10025.www1.h...roduct=3769072

http://h10032.www1.h...l/c01662442.pdf

 

That BIOS has an option for USB booting 

 

Boot Options Set the following boot options:
● f9 and f10 Delay (sec.)―Set the delay for the f9 and f10 functions
of the Setup Utility in intervals of 5 seconds each (0, 5, 10, 15, 20).
● CD-ROM boot―Enable/disable boot from CD-ROM.
● Floppy boot―Enable/disable boot from diskette.
● Internal Network Adapter boot―Enable/disable boot from Internal
Network Adapter.
● Boot Order―Set the boot order for:
◦ USB Floppy
◦ Internal CD/DVD ROM drive
◦ USB CD/DVD ROM drive
◦ Hard drive
◦ USB Diskette on Key
◦ USB Hard drive
◦ Network adapter

 

 

Now, do you have the above in your BIOS? :unsure:

Generally speaking Insyde BIOS (IF it is actually an Insyde BIOS) are "tricky" or "picky" when it comes to USB booting, but usually, with some cautions/tricks they do boot from USB.

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#16 saddlejib

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:13 PM

This extract taken from the link below tells you how to 'enter' the Bios.

 

1:    "Turn on the notebook PC and press "F10" when the HP start-up screen displays. You may need to press it multiple times for the command to register. The Bios will load." (Only do this)

 

Then do as Wonko says above,

 

http://www.ehow.co.u...otebook-pc.html

 

If that fails report back.



#17 ilko

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:19 PM

How was the USB disk prepared (partitioned and formatted) ? Using which program/tool, using what options?

 

There are number of BIOS-es which would not display USB boot option if the USB disk is not suitably prepared.



#18 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:20 PM

This extract taken from the link below tells you how to 'enter' the Bios.
...
 
If that fails report back.


Interesting piece of info, which the OP was clearly unaware of :dubbio::
 

Hello,
 
Yes I get the boot menu from pressing F10 on startup.  However, the list of options for booting does not have the USB option, only floppy disk and CD.  Do I need to get a new BIOS?  Is this possible?


:whistling:

:cheers:
Wonko



#19 saddlejib

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:54 PM

Okay missed that.Wonko

So update bios.

(blast cmos) I would and update.

So still does'nt work or maybe does.

If not Plop.



#20 cdob

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:16 AM

And watch the BIOS options. Sometimes a USB disk is detected as hard disk.
You have to change boot order: set USB disk first and internal hard disk next.

#21 stevekramer99

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:46 AM

Ok... progress!  Thanks again everyone. 

 

I found the boot order list, it included:

 

USB Diskette on Key

USB Floppy

ATARI CD/DVD ROM Drive

Notebook Hard Drive

USB Hard Drive

Network Adapter

 

I tried USB Diskette on Key first and nothing happened (Windows booted).  When I changed the boot order to USB Hard Drive first I got a blank screen with a blinking underscore cursor and no response, But It unetbootin would repeatedly attempt to load from that option, giving the error: "invalid or corrupt kernel image", I am re-downloading the .iso file now.

 

Is "USB Hard Drive" a correct option for booting from a flash memory stick?  I don't quite understand the difference between that and "USB Diskette on Key".

 

I noticed the file size of the iso file is just shy of the "4.3" GB file size limit for 32 bit OS...  I have been reading about this I haven't found a straight answer about maximum file sizes...  I need max size for 32 bit Windows 7 with a NTSF hard drive.

 

I used Unetbootin to set up the drive, a 16GB memory stick.  I also remembered to turn off using the ReadyBoost feature I enabled previously!

 

I will update soon with the new .iso file.!

 

thanks for your help

steve



#22 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:12 AM

FAT32 filesystem (NOT a 32 bit OS) has a limit of 4 Gb, more exactly of 4 GiB minus 1 byte or 4,294,967,295 (2^32 − 1) bytes. 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/FAT32#FAT32

 

 

NTFS filesystem has a limit of 16 TB minus 64 kB or 17,592,185,978,880 bytes (in layman terms "enough" ;)):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#23 stevekramer99

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:42 AM

Thanks.

 

Still downloading the new iso file.

 

I haven't been concerned with large file sizes in a long time, I remember something about a 2 GB limit, do you know the history of this or if it applies to any file size limit for 'current' Windows computers?



#24 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:54 AM

I haven't been concerned with large file sizes in a long time, I remember something about a 2 GB limit, do you know the history of this or if it applies to any file size limit for 'current' Windows computers?

Filesize (AGAIN) generally has little to do with the OS, and plenty to do with the filesystem, and "current Windows" is a "vague" and "subjective"(I consider any NT based system a "current Windows" for example)

The around 2 Gb is the maximum volume size of a FAT16 volume though it has been extended to use a whopping 64 Kb sized cluster with XP (not a particularly smart idea IMHO):

http://support.micro...kb/118335/en-us

http://support.micro...kb/310561/en-us

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#25 stevekramer99

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:31 AM

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and information.

 

I was able to get Ubuntu to boot from the USB memory stick without a problem after I had selected the correct boot option - "Hard Drive on USB" re-downloaded the iso file, and installed it with unetbootin.  Now it runs great !

 

Wonko - Sorry for the vagueness, I actually wanted to illicit a more general response by stating the question in vague terms... but I will be more specific in the future!

 

thanks again!

 

steve






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