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#26 Nuno Brito

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:57 AM

Do you really think that you will be followed? I doubt .

 

David, I look at the "followers" existing today for old wb projects and see how a few notable "followers" of popular wb projects messed up a simple standard way of writing app scripts for the sake of "betterness". In a single stroke hundreds of app scripts were broken after having worked for years across different projects, despite even using the same engine underneath. You know this fact and yet complain here right now about scripts that were already broken before in recent months by others.

 

Please keep using the old winbuilder with your coding friends and be happy.

 

The new winbuilder is simple and straight to the point, so am I.



#27 TrungNT_HUST

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:49 AM

Hi!
 
I have installed the Windows 7 SP1 Utimate built-in and does not want to automatically download Windows 7!
 
I want it to automatically find the installed Windows 7 in my computer


#28 Nuno Brito

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:41 AM

Hello,

 

Sorry but I'm not understanding well what you mean, can you please add more details about what you did and what you want to achieve?

 

I'm going to try guessing that what you need is to use a different Windows ISO as source, correct?

 

I will detail how you can do to use a different windows source.

 

 

I recommend that you first run "AUTO" to verify that everything works without changes and that you get a working boot disk.

 

 

If you already have the Windows 7 SP1 Ultimate ISO on your disk, extract all files from the ISO to a folder.

 

Then from the wb command line window type "SOURCE" and choose the folder where your Windows folder is located. If the source is not valid, you should see an error message. If the windows source is valid then your source is accepted and will be used as default for the next build.

 

Then, type "BUILD" to create a new boot disk using the new source.

 

Done.



#29 paraglider

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:56 PM

Nuno, yes the so called common api / macro library is a nightmare and as you say the owners delete commands whenever they feel like it. I complained bitterly when they deleted the registry commands thus breaking about a hundred of my private scripts. However that is totally irrelevant to the new winbuilder and there was no need to bring old history up here yet again.



#30 Dangerous85

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:03 PM

Downloaded and built a cd last night

Works - seems too easy but for a basic "lets get it going" it works , fast too

 

but Documentation is sparce - ok new project etc 

But How as an example can I import / port / install bginfo plugin ??



#31 Nuno Brito

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:18 PM

@paraglider, I wish it wasn't necessary but it seems that some people are quick to criticize this new work without looking on their own doings.

 

@Dangerous85

 

But How as an example can I import / port / install bginfo plugin ??

 

We do need one. Would you please start a new topic with your request so that we can work on this? This is the forum section for requests: http://reboot.pro/forum/74-requests/

 

:)



#32 Peter O

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:33 AM

Unlike almost everyone else here I am not qualified to provide an opinion.

However I keep asking myself:

1) Why only Win7x86? Most people here are likely to be more interested in 64 bit.

2) How do you check that the source of Win7x86 with SP1 has been correctly chosen with the appropriate language option?

3) Given that the source is correctly chosen, is any "hash check" or equivalent performed. I ask because I have experienced numerous failures particularly with SP1.

4) Using Java without any reassuring explanation of the security issues (either managed or not managed) is almost disrespectful. All PC users are well aware of the US governments recommendation to avoid Java & will be well aware of it's potential security weaknesses.

5) Probably due to my relative inexperience I utterly fail to understand what is meant by reference to plugin selection.

It's at least possible there may be others here like me who are not pros or semi-pros.

6) Lastly this creates a bootable Win7x86 with SP1, at least that's my understanding. What about the almost countless Windows updates that are available post SP1? surely it would make sense to somehow include these?

Now what can I do with this creation; can I boot & conduct OS repairs/reinstall; can I install a new OS to a new machine using only this & if so what are the activation requirements?

 

Probably all dumb questions but I'l' wager I am not the only one who would benefit from am explanatory answer.

Thanks



#33 paraglider

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:00 AM

This is not creating a bootable win7x86 with sp1. Its creating a windows 7 based version of PE with explorer as the shell. If you want more information about PE look at:

 

http://technet.micro...8(v=WS.10).aspx



#34 Nuno Brito

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:44 AM

@Peter O,

 

Hello and thank you for the questions. Below is my reply.

 

1) x86 was chosen because it will work on most computers, either x86 or x64. To use as a recovery media, x86 is usually good enough. I'm not sure how easy or difficult it would be to use x64 sources as well. This is something that Peter Schlang is more suited to answer.

 

2) We verify some of the files inside the WIM archives.

 

3) No hash check is performed at this point. There is a check to verify the expected size of the default windows source that is used. Then, we read the details from the WIM archives and if some error happens in the process, the source is simply assumed as not valid. If you're using the AUTO command to build the boot disk, winbuilder tries to solve any problems with the source automatically.

 

4) You're right, sorry if it seemed this way. It is not installed nor runs with admin permissions. What the US government recommends is to disable Java applets as extensions to the browser or uninstall Java completely if the end-user does not know how to disable them. The Java used by Winbuilder does not run as an applet in your browser, it is a standalone version that is executed without need for any administrator permissions. Other software such as Open Office and Android use the same method of embedded Java to permit full isolation. If the end-user has Java installed already on the system and their version is more recent, then winbuilder makes use of the most recent version.

 

Java is a collection of very different technologies and applets are a security problem that should have been disabled a long time ago. Unfortunately, Java applets are easily perceived and associated with the Java platform as being the same thing. We are making a conscientious and safe use of Java with winbuilder.

 

5) Later versions will make available a nice UI to select and install plugins. At the current moment you need to type them manually. Plugins are installed directly from our download portal here at reboot: http://reboot.pro/fi...ory/10-sandbox/

 

To install some plugin, you need to type install nnn where nnn is the title of the plugin. An example is "install win7pe" or another example is "install filezillaportable". There is no need to type with exact upper and lower case letter the title.

 

 

6) The current project only creates a basic Windows PE based on Windows 7 files. On a Windows PE, there is reduced need for updates since it is not used for everyday work tasks. In the future might be possible to include the Windows files and permit the install from the rescue media. The licensing and activation of Windows is kept as the original edition, you need to either enter a valid key or install in trial mode.

 

 

Last but not least, your questions are not dumb. They are questions that need to be clarified and points on our side that need to be improved in terms of communication.



#35 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:25 PM

@Peter O,

About the x86 vs. 64 bit, it is important to say how even having a 64 bit OS makes little sense (if not for the possibility of using some more memory, though this is not strictly technically related to 64 vs. 32 bit).

The use of large sizes of memory are only *needed* with a limited number of "high end" activities (graphics design, mathematical calculations, video work, etc.).

When it comes to a PE (that is intended as a "reduced" environment) the actual *need* of RAM very rarely may exceed 1 or 2 Gb, and up to around 3 or 3.5 Gb (if such amount of RAM is physically present) is managed by most 32 bit OS's and derived PE's.

See for some reference:

http://reboot.pro/to...drive/?p=151030

http://reboot.pro/to...884-x64-vs-x86/

http://reboot.pro/to...32-bit-version/

 

So, the choice of using 32 bit source for the first (and only) project for the NEW Winbuilder is about everything (and the only thing) the good developers Nuno and Peter made right (IMNSHO).

 

:cheers:

Wonko


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#36 pscEx

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:36 PM

Thanks, Wonko!

 

Long time ago I for me decided, "Never use a 64 bit PE". Reasons you explained simply and meeting the point.

 

BTW: I remember the 007 movie "Never say never" ...

 

Peter :cheers:



#37 pscEx

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 05:51 PM

Hi

 

Certainly a shock to use after using original winbuilder as is so different, but always like to try the latest version of things, so great work, nice to see continuing development

 

I have one question though, I already have a great setup with my PE and lots of scripts I use, how do I get these scripts working with new version, is there any way to import them or instructions on how to modify old scripts to work with new winbuilder?

I think that there is NO (made within reasonable time) way to import or convert to new WinBuilder.

 

The reason is not to be found in a developer's "general clearing", but in the fact, that the so called "Common API" is not a common, but in every project a proprietary API.

(See scripts in the download area which have the comment "Tested with xxx" or "For xxx". Implicitelly that means that these scripts are propably not running in "yyy")

 

I do not see a reasonable way to build a converting database, containing all currently known (and also the in the future suddenly appearing new) API macros.

 

Peter



#38 Atari800XL

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:43 PM

Long time ago I for me decided, "Never use a 64 bit PE".

I might be wrong, but don't you need a 64-bit PE for a Secureboot Windows 8 system?

I know you can (temporarily) turn off Secureboot, but I do keep a 64bit PE around (and already had to use it for clients' PCs).



#39 pscEx

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:45 PM

I might be wrong, but don't you need a 64-bit PE for a Secureboot Windows 8 system?

I know you can (temporarily) turn off Secureboot, but I do keep a 64bit PE around (and already had to use it for clients' PCs).

Maybe "007" has to become active ...

 

Peter :cheers:



#40 TrungNT_HUST

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:56 AM

Capacity after the WinPE will be generated so much
+ Services components of what it contains? Drivers do not have adequate?


#41 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 12:35 PM

I think that there is NO (made within reasonable time) way to import or convert to new WinBuilder.
 
The reason is not to be found in a developer's "general clearing", but in the fact, that the so called "Common API" is not a common, but in every project a proprietary API.
(See scripts in the download area which have the comment "Tested with xxx" or "For xxx". Implicitelly that means that these scripts are propably not running in "yyy")
 
I do not see a reasonable way to build a converting database, containing all currently known (and also the in the future suddenly appearing new) API macros.
 
Peter

Well, as always you are tackling the issue from a "perfect programmer's" view. :frusty:

Since you are not able (or it is impossible, whichever come first, doesn't matter) to produce a surely working at 100% probability (certainty) tool, you decide to provide no tool at all :w00t: :ph34r:.

As I see it, of course from the completely different "carpenter's" point of view, if you could provide a "simpler" tool capable of converting ONLY the non-API parts (or only the "basic" OLD Winbuilder syntax + most of the most commonly used API functions) that whenever it could not recognize a command line would simply output to the converted target something *like*:

Sorry, this converter cannot understand line "<include here line presumably containing non-supported API command or however command not supported by the converter>"

the people willing to do the conversion would have a 80%, 90%, 95% or 99% ready "canvas" where only a limited number of lines would need to be manually converted/replaced/rewritten.

Much better than starting from scratch IMNSHO.

 

Please consider how the availability of such "partial" or "not perfect" converter may actually provide some impulse to the success of the NEW Winbuilder (notwithstanding it's otherwise flawed design/lack of any practical use in the current state if not to build - very quickly - a single project that noone actually needs/wants since there are already much better/more complete working projects from the same source building correctly though a bit slower with the OLD Winbuilder which is familiar to many people).

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#42 Atari800XL

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 02:50 PM

Maybe "007" has to become active ...

 

Peter :cheers:

Yes, thank you for that answer, very helpful.



#43 farzad_Oscar

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:15 PM

Hi 

i am very happy for new winbuilder

i have some problem . i had download the = Win7PE_2013.08.15.zip plug in with winbuilder and after taht it was extrcated in download folder 

but when the project building is finish , ther is no program added to the windows 7 pe source

 

and other problem is http://i44.tinypic.com/e6prvk.png

 

and i want download teh plugins and pot it to my project . where should i put new file ?



#44 Nuno Brito

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:29 AM

Hi Farzad,

 

You shouldn't need to download any plugin manually.

 

On the winbuilder command line, just type "install nnn" where nnn is the plugin name that you want to install.

 

Type "install ?" to see a list of the available plugins.

 

Peter might be able to help with the problem you reported on the screenshot.

 

:)


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#45 lightsword

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:41 PM

I just wanted to add my own $0.02 to the discussion. I've gotten to use both the old and the new winbuilders and personally I like them both. Nuno and Peter have both put in a ton of work in both builds and their passion really shines through. 

 

While many far more skilled developers have already commented, I'd just like to throw some thoughts out there.

 

1. The whole Java argument/disagreement is a bit overblown.  The JRE/Java full install isn't required. For those not wanting to have Java installed on their computers, Nuno and Peter have a build that is a self contained system with just the java executables needed needed for wilbulder to run by itself. No major risk there. 

 

2. GUI. It seems many are upset about not having a GUI to use, but to me this is one of the smartest moves that has been made yet. By not requiring a GUI, it has enabled a lot more flexibility for designers and builders. A GUI can, and I think is being created, but the system can also be used remotely over the web, or with batch scripts to allow a clever person to let winbuilder update itself on a daily or weekly as needed. Granted, I like using a GUI and think it can increase the ease in which a beginner can learn the system but this isn't a beginners tool, it's a specialized application. In the meantime, the command line winbuilder is easy enough to learn, is super fast and will rapidly improve and get much better. 

 

IMHO both versions of winbuilder can coexist for the time being. No one is demanding that the old winbuilder be thrown out right away and replaced. If the old system works and serves your needs, then keep using it. Instead of griping about what we wish was different, lets all unite with Nuno and Peter to make the new winbuilder the best pe available.  :tabletalk:

 

Thank you Nuno and Peter for all your hard work on Winbulder 2013 and I can't wait to see what this amazing community is able to help you develop and create with the new system. Let's all show our appreciation and lend what skills we have to helping them grow this new revolutionary program to new heights!  :clap:  :good:  :cheerleader:  :yess:  :victory:

 

Lightsword


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#46 eye0

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:40 PM

Hello. I have 2 problems. On first machine  i run winbuilder.exe but  screen readers don't read apsolutly anything,  i'm using jaws and nvda. Operating system is windows 7 pro 32 bit. On sekend machine when run winbuilder.exe winbuilder don't start, but create folder translations, and file winbuilder.xml operating system is windows 7 64 bit ultimate

Try to include special features in Java.
I have done the following:
The site developers have downloaded accessbridge-2_0_1.exe and extracted files
access-bridge.jar, accessibility.properties, jaccess-1_4.jar, jaccess-examples.jar, JavaAccessBridge.dll, JAWTAccessBridge.dll, WindowsAccessBridge.dll.
File jaccess-1_4.jar I renamed in jaccess.jar.
On my system, now Java is not installed, so all the actions I have done with a package that is inside winbuilder_latest.zip.
winbuilder_latest.zip extracted by Path D: \ wb.
Next I present the path of the files for Accessibility Options.
My system is Windows XP X86.
C:\windows\system32\WindowsAccessBridge.dll
D:\wb\java\jre-win32\bin\JavaAccessBridge.dll
D:\wb\java\jre-win32\bin\JAWTAccessBridge.dll
D:\wb\java\jre-win32\lib\accessibility.properties
D:\wb\java\jre-win32\lib\ext\access-bridge.jar
D:\wb\java\jre-win32\lib\ext\jaccess.jar
D:\wb\java\jre-win32\lib\ext\jaccess-examples.jar
After that, the console Winbuilder well voiced programs Jaws and NVDA.
 


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#47 Nuno Brito

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:57 PM

Hello eye0,

 

Thank you very much for the quick tutorial, this is a great help. :)

 

I'm preparing the next update of winbuilder to release tomorrow.

 

I will add the Access Bridge as default on the distribution, the license allows us to do this.

 

One detail: Can we avoid placing "WindowsAccessBridge.dll" on "C:\windows\system32\"

 

This is a protected Windows directory. I imagine that the file is placed there to be at reach of the PATH environment variable.

 

Would you try to remove ""WindowsAccessBridge.dll" from the system32 folder and then "place a copy of "WindowsAccessBridge.dll" at the following folders:

- D:\wb\java\jre-win32\bin\

- D:\wb\java\jre-win32\lib\

- D:\wb\java\jre-win32\lib\ext

 

With some luck, we make Access Bridge avoid placing any files on protected folders. This would be great.

 

:cheers:



#48 Nuno Brito

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:59 PM

One detail, you can launch winbuilder directly from the command line. :)

 

If you have java installed on your system, type this from cmd.exe on the folder where you have winbuilder.exe located:

java -jar winbuilder.exe auto

This creates a boot disk and writes the output on the cmd.exe window.


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#49 paraglider

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:33 AM

Can you include a download with 64 bit Java runtime for those that are using 64 bit windows. Also why are you using Java version 6 not Java version 7 in your packaged download?.



#50 Nuno Brito

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:47 AM

Hi Paraglider,

 

There are drawbacks of adding another VM included with the distribution:

1) Download size will double for all end-users, increases perceived notion of bloat.

2) I will have to maintain changes/updates across two runtime VMs

3) The Java-to-Exe wrapper doesn't support 64 bit JVM, I'd have to change to something like: http://winrun4j.sourceforge.net/

 

I see as advantage:

1) Native 64 bit JVM running possibly faster?

 

Is there any other advantages that I'm overlooking?

 

Also why are you using Java version 6 not Java version 7 in your packaged download?

 

We could probably switch to Java 7 without issues. In fact, would you help by trying this update by yourself? Just replace the binaries in the java/win32 folder with a more recent edition and see how it works. :)

 

This  should also work with win64 binaries. If you report no issues in regards to functioning, I will proceed with the update. On my side Java 7 is sized in 122Mb whereas Java 6 is 100Mb. After compression this should mean an added 10Mb in size increase for the zip file distribution.






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