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#26 al_jo

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

nil 



#27 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:42 PM

I agree too - you should always mention the original authors and references - after all the hard work they put in for free, the least one can do is give credit where it is due. I will just ignore this thread (especially as he uses the HP Format Tool :cold: to format the USB drive with and not RMPrepUSB!).

But the use of RMPREPUSB in HIren's is OK because they use your tool instead and this (your words) you consider it a form of flattery.

 http://reboot.pro/to...ows-7/?p=167588

 

BTW, the HPUSBtool is also NOT redistributable, notwithstanding the fact that every other tool redistributes it, and it additionally contains the good ol' DOS files:

http://reboot.pro/to...ion/#entry39111

http://reboot.pro/to...ub4dos/?p=38099

 

Copyright, redistributable state of files, Licenses are NOT "elastic", there is a line, and you can freely :) decide to stay this side of it or the other one, but not change the side you stay on whichever one you see fit at the moment. :ranting2:

 

And these are hardly "news".

 

 

@ChrisR

My personal, sincere apologies for this misrepresentation of your (and other co-Author's) work :(.

 

Though, even your original project is not completely exempt (at least it wasn't last time I had a look at it) from similar behaviour.

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#28 steve6375

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:04 PM

But the use of RMPREPUSB in HIren's is OK because they use your tool instead and this (your words) you consider it a form of flattery.

 http://reboot.pro/to...ows-7/?p=167588

well I was being slightly sarcastic, as there is not much I can do about it! If they can distribute XP and MS can't stop them, I don't see how I can? So what else can I do?

I have got Hirens CDs removed from eBay because they contain RMPrepUSB, but as soon as I warn off 3 sellers, 10 more pop-up!



#29 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:35 PM

well I was being slightly sarcastic, as there is not much I can do about it! If they can distribute XP and MS can't stop them, I don't see how I can? So what else can I do?

I have got Hirens CDs removed from eBay because they contain RMPrepUSB, but as soon as I warn off 3 sellers, 10 more pop-up!

At least you could avoid PROMOTING those Warez, support them, assist with them, write tutorials about them, etc.

 

You should take a position about value (and property) of intellectual work:

  • if an Author says that something made available is non-redistributable is his/her will to be respected or not?
  • if an Author says that something made available is redistributable, BUT ONLY in the same form it has been available, is his/her will to be respected or not?
  • if an Author asks to be cited as original Author in any kind of derivatives, is his/her will to be respected or not?

Of course the answer to these questions do not change based on who is the Author (or owner of the intellectual property) or if something has become (reportedly) defacto accepted by the majority.

 

Or, on the other hand, you could fight for the belief that anything the Author expresses is something that you can ignore or change at your leisure, or start advocating the use of warez, but then you should be coherent and fight for having *any* (good) warez get the same dignity on the forum (and write tutorials for them, assist people having issues with them, etc.).

 

BTW the current "policies" (the ones that noone enforces or that are interpreted "every other day" in a new way) would IMNSHO definitely prohibit this:

http://reboot.pro/to...-site-policies/

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#30 steve6375

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

I do say on my site that you should not use Hirens unless you have a valid XP-licensed system (e.g. Win 7 Pro and Vista Pro have downgrade rights to XP Pro). It is only illegal to use it if you don't have a licence. I assume most people will be using it for maintenance/repair of licensed MS systems. MS are big enough to take care their own problems, smaller fish are not.



#31 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

I do say on my site that you should not use Hirens unless you have a valid XP-licensed system (e.g. Win 7 Pro and Vista Pro have downgrade rights to XP Pro). It is only illegal to use it if you don't have a licence. I assume most people will be using it for maintenance/repair of licensed MS systems. MS are big enough to take care their own problems, smaller fish are not.

We are not (at least I am not) talking of legal or illegal, which may vary greatly from place to place, we are talking of respecting someone else's (expressed) desire, and their right (as Author) to express them.

 

So. the desire (expressed by MS) to not distribute their files is to be ignored because they are big fishes and the desire (expressed by you) to not distribute your files is to be ignored because you are a little fish.

 

Hence, the Authors' desires about limited redistribution can be ignored alright.

 

Are they the only ones that can (and should be) ignored, or we can also ignore the other ones (like citing original Author, not modify redistributed packages, etc.)?

 

Compare with Free hammers:

http://reboot.pro/to...10-mb/?p=154104

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#32 MedEvil

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:06 PM

An author has the right to get paid for his work and if he doesn't want that, to be at least credited for his work. No question.

The whole distribution thing is a completely different can of worms.

We here in Germany have a law, which states, that if one can pay the price asked for a product, a shop has to sell the item to him. (Unless by doing so they would break the law.)
No other reason, but not having the money to buy, is valid for refusing business.

So if i wanna buy, to re-sell the product, they would break the law by not selling to me.

On a similar note, the car industry of Germany sells its cars cheaper in foreign countries, than in Germany.
So smart germans drove into other EU countries and purchased their german cars there. Some even made a business of this and re-imported the cars and sold them cheaper right here in Germany.

The german car industry tryed several things to stop this. (Control the distribution channels) They got fined each and every time from Bruessels for doing so.

So why should it be ok for software developers to control the distribution channels of their product, if the car industry is clearly breaking the law, trying to do so?

:cheers:

#33 pmania

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:03 AM

I got this error:

 

1364785350-8163.png



#34 al_jo

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 06:29 AM

nil



#35 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:04 PM

The german car industry tryed several things to stop this. (Control the distribution channels) They got fined each and every time from Bruessels for doing so.

So why should it be ok for software developers to control the distribution channels of their product, if the car industry is clearly breaking the law, trying to do so?

Why not? :w00t:

This has nothing to do with moral rights, and you cannot seriously compare cars (or any hardware) with software or intellectual property (you know the difference between material and immaterial, don't you?).

 

JFYI, Germany has some bigger issue, talking of cars, for a mere "in conjunction with":

http://curia.europa....rt=1&cid=734879

http://www.autoviva....ecting_vw_/8868

 

Remember that whilst the straightness of bananas is an "euromyth", minimum size is not:

http://en.wikipedia....(EC)_No_2257/94

 

Or should we assume that anything that the EU makes is OK "by definition"?

 

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#36 MedEvil

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

This has nothing to do with moral rights, and you cannot seriously compare cars (or any hardware) with software or intellectual property (you know the difference between material and immaterial, don't you?).
Does it really make any difference to you, if you can't earn money, because i don't sell you a needed (hardware) tool or because i don't sell you a needed (software) tool?

:cheers:

#37 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:15 PM

Does it really make any difference to you, if you can't earn money, because i don't sell you a needed (hardware) tool or because i don't sell you a needed (software) tool?

Where was the "earning money by using (or commercing) something bought"  introduced? :unsure:

In case it could (maybe) be about "earning money by using (or commercing) something stolen" (I hope you understand the difference between buying and stealing),

 

The three questions are here:

http://reboot.pro/to...ripts/?p=170466

just answer THOSE questions (and NO other one, and make NO comparison with anything else, they are simple and clear enough).

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#38 al_jo

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:39 PM

nil



#39 pscEx

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:18 PM

@al_jo

 

I'm currently using the project to build me a minimum sized PE which I can logically use to compare with the new 2013 Win8PE project.

 

Inspite the "license" discussion, which you have with some bakers:

 

The project user interface is very good stripped down from "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" to "Usable by an unexperienced user" :clap:

Especially hiding a couple of unnecessary (?) options is a good idea. :1st:

 

Here my issues / suggestions

  • I have extracted WIMs on my system and cannot use them in your actual project. Every build the project mounts / unmounts several minutes.
    I made the "use extracted" in "Images configuration" visible, and now have an average build time in the order of some minutes.
  • Adding all the ext-ms-* files is unnecessary. The minimised PE runs w/o them.
    I think that here some bakers w/o testing decided "having more can do more":
    Maybe some ext-* files are necessary when adding special components / plugins.
  • When I unselected the "6 - Common Files" script, the PE had troubles in explorer.
    I did not check yet the really necessary file(s), but you should change this script to "Mandatory"
  • The "5 - WoW64 Basic" script is declared as "Mandatory", but really not needed when using a x86 source CD.
    You should remove the "Mandatory" flag, or in [process] you should test the source CD architecture, and skip the whole stuff when applicable.

When I have done with "optimising" I'll give you the resulting project, if you want.

 

Peter :cheers:



#40 al_jo

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:33 AM

nil



#41 ChrisR

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:11 PM

:censored:

I'm currently using the project to build me a minimum sized PE................

 

Here my issues / suggestions

  • I have extracted WIMs on my system and cannot use them in your actual project. Every build the project mounts / unmounts several minutes.
    I made the "use extracted" in "Images configuration" visible, and now have an average build time in the order of some minutes.
  • Adding all the ext-ms-* files is unnecessary. The minimised PE runs w/o them.
    I think that here some bakers w/o testing decided "having more can do more":
    Maybe some ext-* files are necessary when adding special components / plugins.
  • When I unselected the "6 - Common Files" script, the PE had troubles in explorer.
    I did not check yet the really necessary file(s), but you should change this script to "Mandatory"
  • The "5 - WoW64 Basic" script is declared as "Mandatory", but really not needed when using a x86 source CD.
    You should remove the "Mandatory" flag, or in [process] you should test the source CD architecture, and skip the whole stuff when applicable.

 

That silliness  :frusty:
 
All the ext-ms* extension API, are less than 1 Mb. You want to remove them, at the risk of having troubles with some applications. This is perfect ;)
 
Win8PESE works well without the "Common Files" script (VB5, VB6 and etc).
No need to set it mandatory although it is nice to have for only few extra Mb.
 
It is better to keep WoW64 basic as mandatory for x64 building and avoids to forget it.
For x86 build, no worries, even mandatory, there is a test inside, of course.
 
On the original project (write "Win8PE SE" on Google), we can used, if wanted, the extracted wim files.
 
Al_Jo, keep your stupidity until the end, by copying a project without asking.
Without giving credit to the original project, a steal ...   :censored:
 
Otherwise, I have seen, in other times, the childish Peter, fight against Appz, Warez.
Now, he uses and gives bad advice on this illegal copy, therefore he supports.
He even want to go further by making a copy of this pirate copy.
Bravo for an administrator, do not change anything   :3th: .



#42 pscEx

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

That silliness  :frusty:
 
All the ext-ms* extension API, are less than 1 Mb. You want to remove them, at the risk of having troubles with some applications. This is perfect ;)
 
Otherwise, I have seen, in other times, the childish Peter, fight against Appz, Warez.
Now, he uses and gives bad advice on this illegal copy, therefore he supports.

First topic:

I have a different opinion: The base of a PE should be functioning, but as small as possible.

When any added plugin needs some files from the source CD, the plugin script has to copy these files when necessary.

When any added plugin needs some registry entries, the plugin script has to make this entries.

 

IMO it is bad programming style to 

Let's put everything into the target, maybe somebody needs it sometimes.
When he needs it, he is to stupid to find out what he needs.
Only me knows everything ...

BTW: Al_Jo's project in the first trial ran in VirtualBox. :thumbup:

I gave up to try the original. To many issues during build. :thumbdown:

 

Second topic:

European law allows me to give suggestions to everybody, when the suggestion or the target of the suggestion is not criminal. It is in the "everybody"-s responsibility how he handles license issues. :smart:

 

See my line:

Inspite the "license" discussion, which you have with some bakers:

Question:

What is "childish" in my post?

Or did the bakery change my attribute "Nazi" to "childish"?

 

I'm waiting for more creative inventions ... :rofl:

 

Peter :cheers:



#43 pscEx

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 06:42 PM

Wim’s: For an average inexperienced user that’s making a Win8PE 2-3 times a year,

saving some minutes when building, but loosing some more minutes and 10GB space

while extracting the wim’s: Don’t know if it’s a good idea.

You did not read my post correctly:

I already have the extracted WIMs in my system. BTW: For me, space is no question.

 

Peter



#44 al_jo

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:14 PM

bil 



#45 pscEx

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:20 PM

Accepted!

 

Peter :cheers:



#46 ChrisR

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:52 PM

Question:

What is "childish" in my post?

 

This for example

 

BTW: Al_Jo's project in the first trial ran in VirtualBox. :thumbup:

I gave up to try the original. To many issues during build. :thumbdown:

 

The proof of your bad faith :3th: 
It is only a copy, illegitimate, hiding the author and some options, to try to mask.
How a copy can works better :dubbio: . needless to say more.



#47 pscEx

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:57 PM

Hi Troll!

 

You find a report of my experience with different projects childish?

Al_Jo's project in the first trial ran in VirtualBox. :thumbup:

I gave up to try the original. To many issues during build. :thumbdown:

 

Should I have to use different emoticons like:

Al_Jo's project in the first trial ran in VirtualBox. :wodoo:

I gave up to try the original. To many issues during build. :boo:

Maybe that administration judges your posts as trolling, like me.

 

Peter



#48 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 08:17 PM

As I see it, one of the essential parts of "trolling" is that it made through anonimity or disguising oneself as another person.

 

Statements by known people are either facts or opinions and even if possibly controversial are not "trolling":

http://en.wikipedia....roll_(Internet)

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#49 pscEx

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 08:20 PM

As I see it, one of the essential parts of "trolling" is that it made through anonimity or disguising oneself as another person.

Correct, right now ChrisR is known for many users as serious and successful developer (having some different opinions, compared to the board).

But now I'm starting to doubt about ChrisR's personality: Is he really serious targeting our forum? :dubbio:

Just my personal expression of "οἶδα οὐκ εἰδώς"

 

@all trolls: please do not try to explain.

 

Peter :dubbio:






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