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Is there a way to boot an exfat formated USB drive?

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#26 saddlejib

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:27 AM

Discovered the cause of my problem.

There is a change in the way grldr behaves from version grub4dos-0.4.5b-2011-06-02.7z to version grub4dos-0.4.5b-2011-06-05.7z as sourced from:

 

http://code.google.c.../downloads/list

 

06-02 and prior versions look for menu.lst on the partition grldr resides and boots from

06-05 and later versions do not.

 

So if you create a ufd device (only tried on sdcard not pendrive) with partitions of first partition exfat and second partition fat32, the later grldr looks elswhere for menu.lst in my case it was finding one of many scattered on my hard drives.

 

You can replicate this, tentative maybe, by creating the same scenario.

 

'Anyway of' forcing later grldr's to look on the partiton in resides in would be apreciated.

 

Scenario:

sdcard mounted using microdrive.lz (gendisk) partitioned using minitool partition wizard creating two fat32 partions (it does'nt support exfat) first partition then formatted using win7 exfat full format

g4d installed to mbr initially using rmprep and later in testing mudcrab, sorry for doubting you steve but in the process of testing had to find the cause, grldr and menu.lst placed on (hd0,1) second partition fat32 with relevant files so I could boot livexp and first partitio exfat so the phone accepted it.

 

Happy days, now working but would like to use latest grldr.

 

@steve

On whole disk (no partitons) exfat rmprep works and boots using latest grldr.



#27 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 09:12 AM

So if you create a ufd device (only tried on sdcard not pendrive) with partitions of first partition exfat and second partition fat32, the later grldr looks elswhere for menu.lst in my case it was finding one of many scattered on my hard drives.

Allow me to doubt that any version of grub4dos does not "look" for menu.lst on the same drive it is booted from. :dubbio:

However:

'Anyway of' forcing later grldr's to look on the partiton in resides in would be apreciated.

Edit the internal menu.lst of grub4dos. :whistling:
Anyway both those grub4dos versions you cited seem to me obsolete.
Get LATEST .0.4.5c marked as "Featured" on Chenall's page, right now grub4dos-0.4.5c-2013-03-03.7z  
 
:cheers:
Wonko



#28 gyunter

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 09:34 AM

Greetings! 

Please tell me how to make internal HDD formatted ExFAT(only possible FS due hardware damage) bootable from it or from another media(small hdd, floppy, flash, etc..) All XP system files except bootloader must be on this HDD and loads from it after getting control from bootloader.



#29 steve6375

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 09:42 AM

XP does not support exFAT.



#30 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 10:30 AM

XP does not support exFAT.

Proof/documentation/reference for such a flat statement? :dubbio:

 

XP does support exFAT, if you have the right driver:

http://www.msfn.org/...d-on-usb-stick/

about booting an XP from exFAT, though not the easiest possible thing in the world, at first sight I cannot see why through a few tricks, namely something along the lines of the XP Kansas City Shuffle:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=24763

it would be not possible to boot it... :unsure:, a lot of time ago cdob :worship: left it as an unresolved problem:

http://reboot.pro/to...reator/?p=57565

but maybe if someone is really interested, the topic could be re-examined...

 

@aaaa

Can you detail the EXACT REASON why exFAT is (according to you) "only possible FS due hardware damage"?

I wonder if you are not slipping on a chocolate covered banana :whistling::

http://homepage.ntlw...red-banana.html

 

:duff:

Wonko



#31 gyunter

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:00 PM

Proof/documentation/reference for such a flat statement? :dubbio:

 

XP does support exFAT, if you have the right driver:

http://www.msfn.org/...d-on-usb-stick/

about booting an XP from exFAT, though not the easiest possible thing in the world, at first sight I cannot see why through a few tricks, namely something along the lines of the XP Kansas City Shuffle:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=24763

it would be not possible to boot it... :unsure:, a lot of time ago cdob :worship: left it as an unresolved problem:

http://reboot.pro/to...reator/?p=57565

but maybe if someone is really interested, the topic could be re-examined...

 

@aaaa

Can you detail the EXACT REASON why exFAT is (according to you) "only possible FS due hardware damage"?

I wonder if you are not slipping on a chocolate covered banana :whistling::

http://homepage.ntlw...red-banana.html

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

So, it is not possible to redirect boot process to ExFat drive after all nessasary sturtup modules of OS(including ExFat XP driver) will be loaded from regular FS media?

 

Half of my HDD and "boot sector" unwritable(possible one dead head in device), and i can not format it in any FS different from ExFAT. Using it as secondary disk only has no sence because power, space and performance limitation of primary ancient HDD.

 

YES  I want strange, mostly from "sport interest"  :air_fan:


Edited by aaaaa, 10 February 2015 - 01:17 PM.


#32 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:41 PM

So, it is not possible to redirect boot process to ExFat drive after all nessasary sturtup modules of OS(including ExFat XP driver) will be loaded from regular FS media?

As posted, there was some previous tests made but they were never finalized, SURELY you need a "XP Kansas City Shuffle" (or "Fake Signature Method") approach to "redirect boot process", but that's all that can be said at the moment.
 

Half of my HDD and "boot sector" unwritable(possible one dead head in device), and i can not format it in any FS different from ExFAT. Using it as secondary disk only has no sence because power, space and performance limitation of primary ancient HDD.

Your dictionary must be a different edition from the one I have handy :w00t:, on mine "to detail" means "to detail" ;), not "re-iterating vague info and own assumptions" :ph34r:.

 

I will surprise you :w00t: telling you how it exists NOT a "bootsector" on a HD, at the most it exists first absolute sector or LBA0 (i.e. where the MBR, NOT the "bootsector") is usually saved, and - still for the record - you DO NOT "format" a hard disk, you rather partition it and then you may format the partition(s) or volume(s) that you created through the partitioning.

 

Besides the fact that it is foolish to attempt using a hard disk (or more generally hardware) that is defective and has been not properly and fully diagnosed, nothing prevents you to explore possible alternatives (that may be suggested to you IF you can DETAIL the issues) such as (example) using an image saved to the exFAT and/or finding a different partitioning scheme (if partitioning is possible) etc.
 

YES  I want strange, mostly from "sport interest"  :air_fan:

Which is good, Wonko approves of this. :thumbup:

:duff:
Wonko



#33 gyunter

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 02:22 PM

I will surprise you :w00t: telling you how it exists NOT a "bootsector" on a HD, at the most it exists first absolute sector or LBA0 (i.e. where the MBR, NOT the "bootsector") is usually saved, and - still for the record - you DO NOT "format" a hard disk, you rather partition it and then you may format the partition(s) or volume(s) that you created through the partitioning.

I meant the same when wrote "". However, boot area is damaged - when I partition, format and setup OS it failed to boot.

Ok, thx for help, will try other ways.



#34 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 02:55 PM

I meant the same when wrote "". However, boot area is damaged - when I partition, format and setup OS it failed to boot.

Ok, thx for help, will try other ways.

Well, then it would become unpartitioned media, something that Windows NT systems particularly dislike when it comes to booting, and I still fail to see how you can apply an exFAT filesystem on that device.

 

I tried to convey to you the message that if you do not provide enough details you are unlikely to get any meaningful help/ideas/suggestions (besides making willing helping members of the board lose their time, my time in this case), I evidently failed :w00t:, or however you insist of providing meaningless, vague info such as "boot area is damaged - when I partition, format and setup OS it failed to boot".

 

For the record IF "boot area" (i.e. first absolute sector or LBA0) is damaged, you CANNOT partition, so that scarce info is additionally inaccurate. :frusty:

 

:duff:

Wonko



#35 gyunter

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:38 AM

Sorry for misunderstanding, but for right results you could be say: get this... do that.1.2.3...send results...take solution.  :P

 

What I did before with this fucking drive: 

1. Checks it with Victoria hdd test tool ang got large zones of bad sectors after every several gigs of media

2. Tried to devide it with PQMagic to over +100500 partitions on good space.

3. Sets up WinXP and gets broken partition table after writing boot info and during loading 

4. Creates one partition on whole disk, format it in ExFAT and have no problems at all(all data writes and reads) exept one lillte minus - absence of boot ability in FS.   :sos: 



#36 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:32 AM

No. :(

 

Meaning that what you describe - while still missing the needed DETAILS - is either not accurate (because you are holding back relevant data) or not accurate because you have misinterpreted the results of your experiments. :w00t:

 

If the first absolute sector or LBA0 is accessible and writable, you can partition the disk, at least in 4 primary partitions. (good :))

If the first few following sectors, namely LBA1-17 are as well accessible and writable, you can install grldr.mbr to the disk, but you will need a small amount of good sectors, let's say 1000 of them to create a volume to host grldr OR if a few more following sectors, namely LBA 1-63 or better 1-127 are accessible and writable you can install the WEE to the disk.

And the disk will become normally bootable (to grub4dos).

 

Then you have "holes" (i.e. bad areas, not everywhere, but in spots ;)) all over the rest of the disk.

 

Now if sector (example) LBA 238975 is "bad" and cannot be read or written properly, it is "bad", and it remains "bad" NO matter which filesystem you are applying to the volume created on the disk that comprehends that specific bad sector.

 

You are seemingly telling me that you attempted making a huge volume covering the whole extents of the disk and by formatting it as ExFAT the filesystem automagically marked those holes as "bad sectors" (and of course - but you failed to specify this, the available space in this volume is much smaller than what is should be given it's size)? :unsure:

And that you cannot obtain the same (or similar result ) through a full format and running CHKDSK /R on a NTFS partition? :dubbio:

 

IF this is the case, and provided that your (unknown) disk is compatible, you may want to *try* this tool here:

http://files.hddguru...ftware/Makebad/

on the disk, and hopefully obtain an unreliable, with a senselessly filled up $BadClus, but working NTFS filesystem.

 

 

But it is also possible that the volume cannot be actually properly formatted due to the default placement of the $MFT by the XP format tool, which depends on size of the volume and on it's extents.

The extents of the NTFS partition might be critical and in order to find the "right" placement/size of it some experiments will need to be carried as while there are a few tricks/possibilities to "move" the $MFT, WITHOUT an EXACT, DETAILED map of the disk, it is impossible to even give you valid practical suggestions.

 

Generically speaking, on a 512 bytes/sector device, the XP FORMAT tool will create a NTFS filesystem with 4096 bytes/sector clusters with the $MFT starting at cluster 786432 with a size proportional to the size of the volume, but there are also other files, like the $Boot record which is 16 sectors in size that have a fixed address at cluster 0 ( relative LBA0).

There is a trick that - within limits -  allows to have the $MFT at a different location/having an initial reduced size, that may be useful in this case, see here:

http://reboot.pro/to...disk-emulation/

but again, without specific data I cannot say if it may work in your case.

 

Otherwise - if you are really convinced that the exFAT is the way to go, you can have on it a XP inside an image (RAW or .vhd) that was already tested successfully by alacran (see previous posts) or experiment with the Windows 8 BOOTMGR (hints given before in this same thread) or - again as said - continue where the experiments with the XP Kansas city shuffle method were left, but you have to consider how all these are either very experimental or downright new/unexplored/undocumented approaches, in any case all of them rather complex (i.e. NOT of the do that 1,2,3 kind) and will need, besides some time and patience, to be first tested on some surely working hardware before being possible to hopefully replicate them to your half-botched disk/hardware. 

 

:duff:

Wonko



#37 gyunter

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:53 AM

Excellent!!! BIG thanks! Now I can continue to torture HDD with new tools, knowledges and hope to get additional info and results.  :yahoo:



#38 njlyf2011

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 01:18 PM

Try to use GRUB4DOS or GRUB2 to boot from exfat.

Good luck!



#39 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 06:05 PM

Try to use GRUB4DOS or GRUB2 to boot from exfat.

Wow, I must remember to tag this as "news" :whistling:.

 

Hadn't you noticed this thread is about booting from exFAT using grub4dos, and there are reports how this works nicely.

The issue may come depending on what OS specifically you want to boot from grub4dos (or GRUB2).

 

:duff:

Wonko



#40 alacran

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:31 AM

As said before: You can install Win8.x from a USB device exFAT formated (to a MBR/legacy partitioned HDD), also Win7 if you use Boot folder and bootmanager file from Win8.x; no need of Grubfordos, Grub2 or WinNTSetup.

 

Just try to install Win8.1 Enterprice Eval. x86 on 50 GB second primary partition exFAT formated on my internal HDD (MBR/legacy) using BootIce to format and WinNTSetup to install (as Windows installer only give us NTFS option)  and during first boot 8.1 failed to configure the system. It wasn't Wimboot mode.

 

Best Regards



#41 steve6375

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 09:04 AM

Did you try using a VHD?



#42 alacran

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:52 PM

Did you try using a VHD?

 

Thanks to you Steve, you are right using a VHD we can boot almost any Windows, I have tested booting an XP-SP3 fixed size VHD (using Winvblock driver and Grubfordos to chainload to ntldr) and it boots fine http://reboot.pro/to...ve/#entry171315

I also tested Win7 booting directly on exFAT and it fail,  But I never try to boot Win8.x directly on exFAT until now and let my tell you I was almost sure it was going to boot, I saw the logo and the circular dots and later a note saying failed to configure the system please reboot, and I just wanted to report my findings.



#43 steve6375

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:56 PM

Was the Win 8.1 VHD on the internal HDD or external USB HDD or external Removable Flash drive or external Fixed-disk type of Flash drive?



#44 alacran

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:02 PM

No VHD, it was directly installed on an exFAT partition on my internal HDD, if it were in a VHD I have no doubt it will boot.






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