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Virtual port Usb (question)


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#1 betrand

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:03 PM

Hello,


I am trying to connect an old hardware via Irda, on a windows7 machine (32).
The computer I am using has no serial ports, just Usb.
The software for the Irda communication needs to assign a port to the irda,
and usb is not seen as a port.
The idea is to create a virtual port, than pipe /reassign / pseudo-ize the usb to a port number.

Has anyone ever done something similar with usb /non-existant serial?

A few links

(edited: some lines didn'e appear in post :dubbio: )
(edit again, even less lines appeared)
(edit3: Maybe in quotebox?)

http://www.lvr.com/u...al_com_port.htm
http://www.kernelpro...nelpro.com/����
http://www.mp3car.co...o-com-port.html
http://www.howardfor...irtual-Com-Port
http://www.control.c...ead/1336027137f
http://www.ehow.com/...ed-adaptor.html


Can't remember which I tried, I am not on the said computer.

Cheers.

#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

Maybe:
http://www.forensicf...ewtopic/t=5268/

:cheers:
Wonko

#3 Sha0

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

I am trying to connect an old hardware via Irda, on a windows7 machine (32).
The computer I am using has no serial ports, just Usb.
The software for the Irda communication needs to assign a port to the irda,
and usb is not seen as a port.
The idea is to create a virtual port, than pipe /reassign / pseudo-ize the usb to a port number.

What does the USB have to do with anything? Is there an actual USB device involved, at all? If not, would a COM port without any tie to any USB device work? I don't quite follow what you are actually doing. It might be straight-forward to make a virtual serial port driver, but I don't understand what exactly is supposed to be on the other end, from reading your post.

#4 betrand

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

Thanks both.
Now, am I feeling lucky?

@Sha0, the IR is provided by a usb IR pluggy thing. The computer has no inbuilt infrared.

Question, though it might be a wrong question, is, can a USB device on Windows7 (32) be
associated to a virtual COM port?
Without going through Tcp thingies, ie a lazy solution. (right click usb> this is now a port)
I am reading the links, Comfoolery and Xport look to be in the right path.

#5 betrand

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

How, How the heck do you give admin rights to an admin on Sh&tdows7?
Ok, done. It's still a stupid design.
Will carry on later on the IR thing.
Thanks.
:cheers:

#6 Sha0

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

the IR is provided by a usb IR pluggy thing. The computer has no inbuilt infrared.

I'm still struggling to understand the goal... You are installing "software for the Irda communication" that "needs to assign a port to the irda," right? Is this software the software that comes with the USB "IR pluggy thing"? If so, why would they write it so that it doesn't work? If not, doesn't the USB "IR pluggy thing" have vendor-provided software to drive it and provide a serial port for it? That would make a lot of sense, to me.

Question, though it might be a wrong question, is, can a USB device on Windows7 (32) be
associated to a virtual COM port?

I'm not sure this makes sense. A USB device that supports a serial-port interface should have drivers and/or software to produce that interface. Otherwise, there are a lot of details missing from the picture... If I wanted to make a USB hard disk into a serial port, what would that mean, exactly? What should it do? Even if your USB device isn't a hard disk, the same kind of question can be asked.

Without going through Tcp thingies, ie a lazy solution. (right click usb> this is now a port)

So I right-click my USB scanner and... :confused1:

#7 betrand

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:48 AM

Hi,

You are installing "software for the Irda communication" that "needs to assign a port to the irda," right? Is this software the software that comes with the USB "IR pluggy thing"?

No, I used the generic Windows7 driver.
:chair: I thought it might provide much of a muchness, and more importantly, I didn't have the drivers' CD at hand.

doesn't the USB "IR pluggy thing" have vendor-provided software to drive it and provide a serial port for it? That would make a lot of sense, to me.

So, the software of the "IR pluggy thing" might provide a serial capability? Some sort of translator, for other applications to think it is (on) a serial port? I Didn't know this would be an option provided by vendors. Thanks, great if it can!

#8 betrand

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:59 AM

A USB device that supports a serial-port interface should have drivers and/or software to produce that interface. Otherwise, there are a lot of details missing from the picture... If I wanted to make a USB hard disk into a serial port, what would that mean, exactly? What should it do? Even if your USB device isn't a hard disk, the same kind of question can be asked.

Right, to be more direct. Got an old Palm for free, thought I would try out what it features.
The connection is done either by serial, either by IR.
Newer comps have no serial port.
Software (Hotsync) wants for some reason to work with IR if it's on serial port. Usb IR pluggy is not seen in list of COM ports, from the software.
So I want(ed) to bridge the Usb port to fake a Serial, so that the software of the Palm might add it to the list of COM ports.

Other idea: Go through Qemu, install XP (or Win98), install driver, software, and see if the XP on qemu maps the (outer) IR as a COM.

But 1st I must try with the drivers CD.

Thanks.
(virtual beer?)
:cheers:

#9 betrand

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:19 AM

So I right-click my USB scanner and...

And I say (click) it's on an old style COM port. Old applictions would then say, ah, yeah, its on a COM port,
not one of these new USBs!

#10 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:51 AM

I will translate betrand's posts for the benefit of those not familiar with him. :whistling:

Facts:

  • someone gave betrand "a Palm"
  • somehow he got his hands on something like this: [url="[url="http://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/IR-BT-TC/USB-to-InfraredIrDA-SIRFIR-Adapter~usb2ir2"]http://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/IR-BT-TC/USB-to-InfraredIrDA-SIRFIR-Adapter~usb2ir2[/url]"]http://www.startech....Adapter~usb2ir2[/url] :dubbio:
instead of:
  • reading the instruction manual for the specific USB to Infrared adapter he has
  • searching for it's specific driver or - if this search wasn't successful - ask for help in finding a suitable specific driver (which would have made him neededly post some of the actual facts, specifically the brand/make/model of the specific adapter)
  • more generally provide meaningful, specific informations about the issue he is facing
he decided to: talk about a mostly unrelated generic issue, thus reaching three goals at the same time:
  • NOT getting useful advice :ph34r:
  • make other two people lose some of their time in the perfectly pointless attempt to help him :realmad:
  • confirm his record about being never able to ask the "right" questions that could have the "right" answers to solve the problem at hand :thumbsup:
And the "word of the day" is an adjective ....
byzantine
[url="[url="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Byzantine"]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Byzantine[/url]"]http://en.wiktionary.../wiki/Byzantine[/url]

Adjective

Byzantine (comparative more Byzantine, superlative most Byzantine)

  • Overly complex or intricate.
  • Of or pertaining to Byzantium.
  • of a devious, usually stealthy manner, of practice.

meanings 1. and 3.

:cheers:
Wonko



#11 betrand

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:26 PM

You might find my manner Byzantine, I hope it's not seen as too disruptive.

 

Your translation of my various postings isn't all accurate.

 

 

 

Someone gave Betrand a Palm

 

Not quite, but fair.

 

Somehow got his hands on..

 

Applies to the Palm. This was bought.

 

Reading the manual.

 

I didn't think one had to read a manual for such a boring apparatus.

 

Specific driver... Brand/make/model

 

To me these things, if compared to cars for instance,
should operate in a manner which is casually speaking, the same. Four wheels, an engine, a seat, a drivers wheel, gears.
To have these things (usb IRDA) work in different ways, is like (to continue the comparison), you would look at a car
and say, "how the heck does this thing work?", when you have just come out of a quite similar one.
To me a car is similar to another similar car (different brand), and I thought a Windows driver would cover 
an eventuality in which this or that driver was a bit different.

 

Meaningful, specific info

 

I have read so much these couple of days about people with
advice which worked for one but not the other, that it's hard to pinpoint (for me and presumably others)
where the issue really is.

 

Not getting useful advice

 

Oh no, there you are wrong. The advice I got suited my need, i.e, ever little bit of hardware, even if very very very similar, can be totally different. Confer post 5 and 6.
 
 

Tired of going through quotes; about making people lose time, I hope it wasn't seen in that way,

and in any case, thanks.

To be fair, I'm now quite bored with this topic (especially after the re-edit /rewrite).

Again, thanks.

 

Palm stuff:

The problems that many have faced on the internet with retrocompatibility of the Palm,

is carrying-on here.

At the moment I have:

 

At this point, I tap the sync thing, Windows makes a laser sound.
If I look carefully and fast, I see the Infrared icon appear on the taskbar.
Infrared transfer box appears. Laser sound again. 
No icon any-more. Palm says: Connection with PC could not be made.

 

A good example of the type of discussions which can be found in many places:

http://www.expansys-.../ft.aspx?k=3562

 

 

 

If a COM port is not available or in conflict with another 
application, you may need to contact your PC manufacturer to resolve 
these issues.

That was the kind of tthing made me look into Coms.



#12 MedEvil

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

In regard to your car comparison:

A better comparison would be: You rode a bicycle for years and now get on a motorbike, ready to pedal your heart out, but there are non! ;)

Hint: If you just wanna try the palm out a bit, ask someone with a Laptop for help, those usually have irda build in and should be recognized ok.

:cheers:
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#13 betrand

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

In regard to your car comparison: A better comparison would be: You rode a bicycle for years and now get on a motorbike, ready to pedal your heart out, but there are non! Hint: If you just wanna try the palm out a bit, ask someone with a Laptop for help, those usually have irda build in and should be recognized ok.

That bicycle /motorbike comparison was sweet, thanks :).

 

 

As for the hint, ok, thanks, I will try various people and their laptops.

But, I am at the moment on a laptop; the problem is, it's newer :/ :/.

wiki.answers.com

 

Do all laptops have InfraredNo. Most newer laptops do not have infrared, since faster methods of transferring data peer-to-peer.

I'll find someone with an older laptop.

 

 

Cheers.



#14 MedEvil

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

Sorry, didn't knew, i was so far behind the curve.
Thought irda was still standard for all laptops and cell phones.

btw. I connect my navi via usb-cable to my computer. Active Sync assigns a com port to it by itself. No special drivers needed.

:cheers:

#15 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:16 AM

Yes unfortunately recent laptops mostly miss BOTH an infrared and a serial port, which make them far less useful for one of the things they were most useful (onsite assistance of embedded devices).

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#16 MedEvil

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

Yes, in this case the saying "old is gold" fits perfectly.
I keep an old Laptop around, just so i can still configure the telephone system in my basement.

:cheers:

#17 betrand

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

To be fair, my reply-post to the translation had started more like:

Ah, translation! So many things in this world have been translated in so many ways

with so many different subjectivities, that trusting a translation, even well meaning, is sometimes

quite a difficult task.

And,

Byzantine, I prefer definition 1, 

Overly complex or intricate.

:).

 

 

Good to know, about your experiences, with computers and their utility. Are computers these days (laptops) mostly geared toward Users, and not technicians?

 

:cheers:



#18 Sha0

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

And the "word of the day" is an adjective ....
byzantine

You might or might not be interested in a particular fellow's work, as an amusement. The second link below suggests that it's possible that he has expertly deceived for many years. Once, I thought he might be revealing his deception using a double-meaning. Nobody but he knows for sure! (So don't draw the conclusion that deception is guaranteed as his actual motive.)

https://groups.googl...ee7ee5523?hl=en

http://homepage.ntlw...cunningham.html

#19 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

You might or might not be interested in a particular fellow's work, as an amusement. The second link below suggests that it's possible that he has expertly deceived for many years. Once, I thought he might be revealing his deception using a double-meaning. Nobody but he knows for sure! (So don't draw the conclusion that deception is guaranteed as his actual motive.)

https://groups.googl...ee7ee5523?hl=en

http://homepage.ntlw...cunningham.html

Well as a matter of fact, for all we know it could be a "collective name" just like the Dread Pirate Roberts:

http://en.wikipedia...._Pirate_Roberts

or like the the senseless bugmenot accounts our board master allows (and actually promotes).

See "Bastian" on 911cd:

http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=23497

or "orions" (and God only knows how many other ones) here:

http://reboot.pro/user/22749-orions/


I am pretty confident in the fact that Bertrand is:

  • good meaning
  • the same person

:cheers:

Wonko



#20 betrand

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

@Sha0, I get your point. I'm not a dev to save my life, and I don't even try to understand what devs do.

I would be a waste of time for me, or other parties. But getting a general idea of the difficulties which might

be involved in a project, throwing an idea to see if people respond (i.e, if they respond, they know what I mean and

we'll be on the same path, if they don't know, that means they won't provide assistance.).

You provided me with the assistance I needed, i.e, a general idea of the difficulty involved.

 

There are difficulties in this project.

It's a project I took up like this, usually I only delve into more common stuff, and will prefer it anyway :).

Difficulty being, for one thing (retrocompatibility and) avoiding bloated installs for something which

manufacturers make seem straightforward. It is straightforward, but fot about 5years while stuff is supported.

 

Afterwards, you gotta find workarounds.

I mentioned going through Qemu, at a point.

Actually I read afterwards on some forum on more recent windows installing XP mode (another bloatware).

Qemu also (my idea) doesn't do Irda ports communicating with host etc. (here's where I use words, you would use programming language references).

I found a solution, but for older hardware, and /or serial.

I am working on a rework of existing (linux) distro.

If someone, preferably with programming / technician knowledge, knows that qemu can communicate with outer IR, I am your man!

 

(I am a man, even if online, words can mean anything! ;) ;))



#21 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

@Betrand
Just for the record, the ONLY meaningful info needed to connect a "Palm" through IrDA is the actual specs of the hardware (IrDA interface/adapter/converter/whatever and PC and OS running on the latter) that is expected to be used for the connection, i.e. the EXACT pieces of info that you completely failed to post AND insist in omitting, while babbling about Qemu, which could be - in some limited cases - a way to run in a VM the actual "Communicating with Palm" software, provided that the "host" OS has drivers for the IrDA (or more simply if it has a COM port and an IrDA is attached to it).
Example:

    [*]you have a machine with Windows XP installed
    [*]you have the software for communicating with the Palm that only runs in Windows 3.11 and does NOT in XP
    [/list]

      [*]you have a IrDa transceiver attached to a COM port (perfectly manageable from the "host" Windows XP)
      [/list]or

        [*]you have a USB IrDA transceiver that COMES WITH A SPECIFIC XP DRIVER that maps it to a virtual COM port (perfectly manageable from the "host" Windows XP)
        [/list]then

          [*]you map the COM port to the Qemu VM so that the OS installed in the VM can be used
          [/list] 
           
          :cheers:
          Wonko

#22 MedEvil

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

Or in simpler words.
You can't use a device from qEmu, that doesn't already work properly in the HostOS!

Still simpler.
Your qEmu idea is nonsense! Stop pursueing it.

Have you tryed the manufacturer driver, like it was suggested?
If you did and it didn't help, give the specs for all the things involved as Wonko asked.


:cheers:

#23 Sha0

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

@Sha0, I get your point.

If you're referring to my last post, I did not type it to be directed to you (see what was quoted), so I wasn't making the point you might've thought I was making. Sorry about that. :)

You provided me with the assistance I needed, i.e, a general idea of the difficulty involved.

Ok. Well I still don't understand how such a virtual serial port driver would work.

If I make a USB hard disk into a COM port, what does it do? Should the bytes sent to the COM port go to the disk? When is data considered to have arrived on the port? Does that data come from the disk?

If I make a USB scanner into a COM port, what does it do? Should the bytes sent tell the motor(s) to move around? When is data considered to have arrived on the port? Does that data come from the scanned item?

Whatever answers anyone might give are going to be specific to the type of device. So then the virtual serial port driver has to know about USB hard disks and USB scanners, etc. That is, it won't be general for all USB devices. Thus, such a general driver doesn't make sense, in my opinion.

But I thought you were bored with this thread, anyway.

Afterwards, you gotta find workarounds.
I mentioned going through Qemu, at a point.
...
If someone, preferably with programming / technician knowledge, knows that qemu can communicate with outer IR, I am your man!

This has precisely the same problem as the virtual serial port driver has. Suppose QEmu can do exactly what you want. Suppose you tell QEmu to hook up the VM's COM port to the host's USB scanner. Suppose you tell QEmu to hook up the VM's COM port to the host's USB hard disk.

I think what you're thinking is that every device has a "natural" input and output, so it's a simple matter of redirecting these natural streams. Well in fact, the most "natural" method I can think of is to use IRP_MJ_READ and IRP_MJ_WRITE. But not all devices support these. (And there are still other details about serial ports that would need to be answered, too.)

#24 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

@Sha0

JFYI (to give you an idea of the level of accuracy of the info that betrand normally provides :whistling:):

http://reboot.pro/to...tware/?p=161324

 

The general plot is:

  • I have a great (completely theoretical) idea, only based on my intuition and not on any technical background
  • I have not the knowledge nor the persistence to study/research by myself if my idea is feasible at all, let alone put it into practice
  • I then simply "throw it on the table" hoping that by sheer luck what I devised is feasible and that someone will do my homework instead of myself
  • Even if I find this good willing someone, I won't provide any detail let alone useful ones and expecially those I am specifically and explicitely asked for
  • As soon as the other party understand the game and stops doing the whatever was doing instead of me I declare the whole thing as either not doable or of no interest and abandon it downright
  • In order to be able to play this game successfully I alternate the way I present myself as either a complete n00b or as a relatively "advanced" expert, citing bits of code or othere projects

Another past example:

http://reboot.pro/to...cd-keyring-usb/

 

In rare cases , and by sheer luck or coincidence, something of use can come out of this approach however, example:

http://reboot.pro/to...a-drive-in-ram/

 

 

:cheers:

Wonko



#25 betrand

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

Or in simpler words. You can't use a device from qEmu, that doesn't already work properly in the HostOS! Still simpler. Your qEmu idea is nonsense! Stop pursueing it. Have you tryed the manufacturer driver, like it was suggested?

Yep, I see why you say that. And I will drop the idea :).

I don't have time to write now, but,

-I have tried the Driver. (got the laser sound)

-The compatibility might work with XP-mode (Is it as I think, a big piece of software? I will research).

 

I will caryy on after! 






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