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Is this possible ? (It's a challenge) :D

grup4dos windows 2000

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#1 MarsWalker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:08 PM

Hello to all,

This is my first post here.

I bought a PaceBlade PB56 from eBay.

It's a 10'' touchscreen tablet with a crusoe cpu running at 867Mhz and 128Mb (internal mem) + 256Mb.
It has ONE usb port, no floppy, no CD, no PS2 so I need to use the USB for the keyboard during instalation.

Now my problem is this:

I'm trying to install windows 2000 on it (I have the touchscreen drivers for it)
So I runned WinSetupFromUSB_1-0-beta8 to copy all the files to my hard drive (It uses grup4dos to start).
The BIG BIG problem is that it has a problem in the first 128Mb of ram (and it's not removable).

When I try to install it starts then gives an error that Microsoft point to a memory hardware failure.

My idea is to create, using grup4dos, a memory drive that uses those first 128Mb (or something that exclude those first 128Mb of memory from being used by the windows 2000).

This drive will not be used for anything except use up memory.

My questions are:

1) is this possible ?
2) can someone help me with the line(s) that I need to include in the menu.lst ?

Thank you in advance to all,

Raul

#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

....

My idea is to create, using grup4dos, a memory drive that uses those first 128Mb (or something that exclude those first 128Mb of memory from being used by the windows 2000).

This drive will not be used for anything except use up memory.

My questions are:

1) is this possible ?
2) can someone help me with the line(s) that I need to include in the menu.lst ?
.

Anything done in grub4dos (real mode) will become m00t as soon as the Win2k switches to protected mode.
So you need a driver like firadisk or winvblock.
But I have no idea if they are usable as you would like to, consider that all MS NT systems are particularly "picky" with RAM issues (of *any* kind).

The BIG BIG problem is that it has a problem in the first 128Mb of ram (and it's not removable).

What do you mean? :unsure: Is it in a locked safebox inside a closed cave (that won't open with the now leaked "Open Sesame" password ;)) surrounded by rattlesnakes :ph34r: or it is just soldered?
I may be a real old timer (as I am ;)) but I would more likely try to fix the hardware (de-soldering the bad RAM and if the stoopid thingy doesn't boot without it, then resolder a new chip) rather than having a defective hardware working (maybe) because of a software workaround :dubbio:
Are we talking of this thingy depicted here?
http://www.njuskalo....6-oglas-4690542

It seems to me like it is/was intended for XP (for which drivers are available):
http://download.pace...B56/Drivers/XP/
what makes you believe that you can run 2K on it (or are there drivers for 2k for it?)


:cheers:
Wonko

#3 MedEvil

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:39 PM

I think to remember that win2k did already know the "burn" switch. But i have no idea if there's a way to specify which part of the RAM to burn.

:cheers:

#4 MarsWalker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

Hello,
Yes it is that one also has XP drivers but using my "idea" the memory would be too short.
I'm also "old" but desolding and resolding things that small will (with my skills) put a big hole on the board :S
From what I know from those two drivers, maybe winvblock would be better.

My issue is that I need those 128Mb disabled during installation.

Without this step I can't do anything.

#5 MarsWalker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

I think to remember that win2k did already know the "burn" switch. But i have no idea if there's a way to specify which part of the RAM to burn.

:cheers:


Burn switch ? that is new to me.
Does it also work on XP ?

#6 MarsWalker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:51 PM

I think to remember that win2k did already know the "burn" switch. But i have no idea if there's a way to specify which part of the RAM to burn.

:cheers:


Almost but I want the opposite. :)


The /burnmemory parameter reduces the amount of memory available to Windows by the specified amount.








/burnmemory=SizeInMB

Subparameters
SizeInMB
Specifies an amount of memory (in megabytes). Enter a decimal integer. This value is subtracted from the amount of memory otherwise allocated to the system.


#7 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

This is an easy question:

Are we talking of this thingy depicted here?http://www.njuskalo.hr/tablet-pc/tablet-paceblade-pb-56-oglas-4690542


An answer would be appreciated.

This also is an easy question:

Do you have the actual drivers for that thingy for 2k?

And as well an answer to it would be appreciated.

I don't think :unsure: that older kernels than 7 (or NTLDR) have a feature similar to this (as a matter of fact I think they don't):
http://superuser.com...m/490522#490522

:cheers:
Wonko
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#8 MarsWalker

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:20 PM

This is an easy question:


An answer would be appreciated.

This also is an easy question:

And as well an answer to it would be appreciated.

I don't think :unsure: that older kernels than 7 (or NTLDR) have a feature similar to this (as a matter of fact I think they don't):
http://superuser.com...m/490522#490522

:cheers:
Wonko


Sorry, I thought that I had respond. Yes, it is just like that. I have the drivers for w2000, xp and linux,

EDITED: I'm looking at the BCD info now and report as soon as I understand it :)

Edited by MarsWalker, 05 November 2012 - 09:27 PM.


#9 MarsWalker

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

Well, the burnmemory parameter works IF there is no bad memory. :(

#10 Sha0

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:58 PM

Well, the burnmemory parameter works IF there is no bad memory. :(

You can still use the E820 memory map to mark memory as off-limits for Windows, as you originally considered doing with GRUB4DOS, which I responded to in one of your duplicate threads. Wonko advised that it should be kept together in this thread, so here it is again:


My questions are:

1) is this possible ?

I believe so.

2) can someone help me with the line(s) that I need to include in the menu.lst ?

Did you read the GRUB4DOS documentation? If so, which part do you need clarification for?

I also suggest using the CLI instead of menu.lst, until you know what you've tried is working. Then you can put it in menu.lst. The CLI has a help command.



#11 MarsWalker

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:47 PM

@Sha0 I'm sorry for the duplicated questions but looks like my start of the thread didn't go so well. :)

I don't know anything about GRUB4DOS: The only thing (right now) is that it's the stuff that is installed via "WinSetupFromUSB_1-0-beta8.exe" to make my disk bootable.
I found that it uses the menu.lst because I followed the information on the disk.
It creates several files:

default
grldr
menu.lst
plpbt.bin
shifthd.bat
usbdrive.tag
windefault
winsetup.lst

and two folders:
DPMS
WINSETUP

and looks like the two lst files are the ones that control de menus and stuff.

#12 Sha0

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:42 PM

@Sha0 I'm sorry for the duplicated questions but looks like my start of the thread didn't go so well. :)

I'm not complaining.

I don't know anything about GRUB4DOS: The only thing (right now) is that it's the stuff that is installed via "WinSetupFromUSB_1-0-beta8.exe" to make my disk bootable.

It's a bit unfortunate that the GRUB4DOS license and documentation aren't also added, but maybe this tool has placed them somewhere else. In any case, the GRUB4DOS documentation is available on the Internet; I think a search would reveal it. Once you have read about how to make a RAM disk from the CLI (command-line interface), perhaps you will be able to accomplish your goal.

#13 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:09 AM

It's a bit unfortunate that the GRUB4DOS license and documentation aren't also added, but maybe this tool has placed them somewhere else. In any case, the GRUB4DOS documentation is available on the Internet; I think a search would reveal it. Once you have read about how to make a RAM disk from the CLI (command-line interface), perhaps you will be able to accomplish your goal.

Sha0, please allow me to be blunt :w00t: :ph34r:

I think I know every single place on the Internet where available documentation for grub4dos is available :dubbio: and even one more :smiling9:.

I presume I can be defined a "moderately advanced/experienced" grub4dos user, as a matter of fact I started using it (and within my very big limits did what I could to improve it, publicize it, "founded" the boot-land reboot.pro grub4dos forum and help it's development) since more than 5 years, as well I have contributed to the very birth of WinSetupfromUSB (with or without GUI) and a number of other projects involving grub4dos.

Still I have NO idea what does actually means :blush::

You can still use the E820 memory map to mark memory as off-limits for Windows,

and how exactly this can be done with grub4dos.

If you would be so kind as to explain the idea in detail :), I am sure I could try and help MarsWalker in the actual grub4dos matters, but I presume that since what you posted sounds like Vogons Poetry to me, MarsWalker, who additionally has not any Babelfish in his ear. will only hear "noise". :w00t:

@Marswalker
Casually reboot.pro is also the "western unofficial" support forum for grub4dos so you don't have to go very far to learn more about the tool:
http://reboot.pro/forum/66/

:cheers:
Wonko
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#14 MarsWalker

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:30 AM

Anything done in grub4dos (real mode) will become m00t as soon as the Win2k switches to protected mode. So you need a driver like firadisk or winvblock.


Doesn't this make the "RAM disk from the CLI" not usable ?

PS - this copy/past that include color and font type is driving me crasy :)

#15 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:43 PM

Doesn't this make the "RAM disk from the CLI" not usable ?

PS - this copy/past that include color and font type is driving me crasy :)

Yes and no, it seems like what Sha0 is suggesting is different from what I had in mind (and thought) :blush:.

Normally a grub4dos defined ramdisk is accessed through grub4dos and mapped (for use - as an example in DOS which remains in Real Mode) to a device and hence to a "drive letter", when the Windows NT starts it switches to Protected mode this mapping vanishes (hence the need of a driver such as firadisk or winvblock capable of "hooking" it and "keeping it alive in protected mode).

I (evidently mistakenly) thought that if no Windows device "hooked" the RAM area, the Windows NT would think that it was "free" to use (and that it would re-scan the system to gather available RAM addresses), what Sha0 is suggesting is - I believe - that if you "hook" that area in grub4dos, even if there is no way from the Windows NT to access it without a driver, that "hook" remains valid and that part of RAM isn't used.

You can try allright.
FORGET about menu.lst, read these two pages AT LEAST:
http://diddy.boot-la...iles/basics.htm
http://diddy.boot-la...s/files/cli.htm
as it is strongly advised to use command line when experimenting (and some form of DOS or Linux).

Instructions for very basic test (DOS)
Make on the device a 128 Mb file, let's say it is C:my128mb.img
Boot the stick to DOS.
Run grub.exe
On grub4dos grub> prompt:

map --mem /my128mb.img (hd2)

map --hook

chainloader /io.sys

boot

you will be back to DOS (unless there are errors in copying the image to ram)
use whatever dos program to check memory available

If the above doesn't work, you may try (compare with the section dedicated to hmload.com in readme_grub4dos.txt:
map --ram-drive=0x82

map --rd-base=0x8000000

map --rd-size=0x400000

and the:


chainloader /io.sys

boot

to get back to dos.
The map --rd-base=0x8000000 and map --rd-size=0x400000 are the (hex) address and size in RAM, you may need to change them to the interval you try to exclude. The example should mean start at 128 Mb (134217728 bytes) and make a ramdisk 4 Mb in size (4194304 bytes).

:cheers:
Wonko

#16 Sha0

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:53 PM

Still I have NO idea what does actually means :blush::

You are mistaken. You have an idea for what it means, and your idea works. :)

If you would be so kind as to explain the idea in detail :), I am sure I could try and help MarsWalker in the actual grub4dos matters, but I presume that since what you posted sounds like Vogons Poetry to me, MarsWalker, who additionally has not any Babelfish in his ear. will only hear "noise". :w00t:

But it sure seems convincing, doesn't it? At least using a RAM disk was mentioned.

Normally a grub4dos defined ramdisk is accessed through grub4dos and mapped (for use - as an example in DOS which remains in Real Mode) to a device and hence to a "drive letter", when the Windows NT starts it switches to Protected mode this mapping vanishes (hence the need of a driver such as firadisk or winvblock capable of "hooking" it and "keeping it alive in protected mode).

The mapping only vanishes because BIOS' INT 0x13 and its drive numbers like 0x00 for first floppy, 0x80 for first HDD, etc., aren't used.

I (evidently mistakenly) thought that if no Windows device "hooked" the RAM area, the Windows NT would think that it was "free" to use (and that it would re-scan the system to gather available RAM addresses), what Sha0 is suggesting is - I believe - that if you "hook" that area in grub4dos, even if there is no way from the Windows NT to access it without a driver, that "hook" remains valid and that part of RAM isn't used.

You are no longer mistaken. :) GRUB4DOS' map --hook will not only hook INT 0x13, but also INT 0x15, to intercept the E820 function NTLdr (actually, it might be NTDetect.com) will query the memory map using this, then pass that map to the NT kernel.

Even though G4D has mapped the memory used by the RAM disk as "off-limits," that just affects which memory Windows will consider "free for allocations." It doesn't prevent a driver from attempting to read and write to that memory, which is just what we (karyonix and I) do.

If the above doesn't work, you may try (compare with the section dedicated to hmload.com in readme_grub4dos.txt:

map --ram-drive=0x82

map --rd-base=0x8000000

map --rd-size=0x400000

...
The map --rd-base=0x8000000 and map --rd-size=0x400000 are the (hex) address and size in RAM, you may need to change them to the interval you try to exclude. The example should mean start at 128 Mb (134217728 bytes) and make a ramdisk 4 Mb in size (4194304 bytes).

Agreed. Since I saw this:

My idea is to create, using grup4dos, a memory drive that uses those first 128Mb (or something that exclude those first 128Mb of memory from being used by the windows 2000).

I thought maybe MarsWalker could find those bits in the GRUB4DOS documentation.

#17 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:24 PM

Agreed.

Agreed my sock! :w00t:

You just stated that a map --hook is needed, but if you try

map --ram-drive=0x82
map --rd-base=0x8000000
map --rd-size=0x400000
map --hook

you will get a "nice":

Error 61: refuse to hook int13 because of empty drive map table


So right now I have something that does hook memory (but cannot specify the addresses of memory) and something that allows to specify addresses of memory, but doesn't allow it's "hooking".

Again, can you suggest an EXACT, DETAILED, procedure? :unsure:

:cheers:
Wonko

#18 Sha0

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

Agreed my sock! :w00t:

Which one? Right or left?

You just stated that a map --hook is needed, but if you try

No, I didn't. But yes, it is.

Again, can you suggest an EXACT, DETAILED, procedure? :unsure:

I think that you are simply missing a mapping from the RAM disk to a BIOS drive number.

# Establish the RAM disk base address at 5 MiB

map --rd-base=0x500000



# Establish the RAM disk size as 123 MiB

map --rd-size=0x7B00000



# Map the 123 MiB (in sectors) to a BIOS drive number

map --mem (rd)+0x3D800 (0x82)

# Or we could have also used the "whole device" syntax

#map --mem (rd)+1 (0x82)



# Inspect the results

map --status



# Perform the hook

map --hook

MemTest could be used in order to determine the problem memory range(s).
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#19 MarsWalker

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:18 PM

WOW !!!! :book:
I really need to read everything because right now it's looks like Japanese to me. :)
I will try and report my results.
Thank you in advance for all the help.

#20 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

@Sha0
Cannot say :dubbio:, it's the other one ;) (the one Little Green Men failed to steal, the one was used - presumably - as fuel for their spaceship :whistling:)
http://www.bundyology.com/hpg/507.html

@MarsWalker
JFYI ;):
http://reboot.pro/3380/

:cheers:
Wonko

#21 saddlejib

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:34 PM

If the Babelfish in my ear is working correctly,
your establishing the good area of memory,
creating a rd using that portion of good memory
mapping it so its available to the bios
then --hooking it in G4D to make the rd available in protected mode.
"Lawyers used Latin to make themselves wealthy"
Now, Where's my socks. :devil:

#22 Sha0

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

If the Babelfish in my ear is working correctly,
your establishing the good area of memory,

The bad area of memory, actually.

creating a rd using that portion of good memory

Of bad memory.

mapping it so its available to the bios

Mapping it so that it will be marked as reserved in the E820 memory map, once the hook is established.

then --hooking it in G4D to make the rd available in protected mode.

Establishing the G4D hook so that Windows will not use the bad memory for memory allocations.

#23 saddlejib

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:12 PM

I thought it might be that, believe it or not, but I thought "I'd raise my head above the parapet" very uk quote , but you two guys are so adept at problem solving I thought I'd better interject.
This is the beauty of reboot.pro.
An International thought pool.
You can kill me if you want, but we love to learn and share. :cheerleader:
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#24 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

I thought it might be that, believe it or not, but I thought "I'd raise my head above the parapet" very uk quote

You should consider having your BabelFish serviced (or replaced) though :ph34r: as is it seems like it translates to the opposite of the actual meaning :w00t:
There is good memory and bad memory (and also ugly one, but it doesn't belong here :whistling:), and they are not the same thing.
Still I love Clint Eastwood explaining binary :worship::
Spoiler


:cheers:
Wonko

#25 MarsWalker

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

it's failing.

# Map the 123 MiB (in sectors) to a BIOS drive number map --mem (rd)+0x3D800 (0x82) # Or we could have also used the "whole device" syntax #map --mem (rd)+1 (0x82)


both lines fail with:
Autodetect number-of-heads failed. Use default value 255

Autodetect sectors-per-track failed. Use default value 63

Does the command need more parameters or this is just information of what is used ?





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