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fat32 4gb limit


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#1 ozzman39

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:30 AM

fat32 4gb limit i have found in the past that this is a windows restriction i have ftp'd into devices formatted in fat 32 and transferd files over 4 gb. do you know if this method would work on the iso stick?

#2 elegantinvention

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:09 AM

The FAT32 4GB limit is not a Windows restriction. It's because the file size is specified in bytes using a 32bit value, so the maximum is (232-1) bytes (4GB). Wiki has more details.

#3 ozzman39

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:13 AM

well i guess let me refraze my question i have gotten 4gb plus files on fat 32 file systems in the past via ftp and they worked if I managed to do it again do you know if the isostick would be able to use the file

Edited by ozzman39, 22 October 2012 - 09:13 AM.


#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:19 AM

well i guess let me refraze my question i have gotten 4gb plus files on fat 32 file systems in the past via ftp and they worked if I managed to do it again do you know if the isostick would be able to use the file

Well, you can re-phrase it all the times you want :) but the FAT32 filesystem (INDEPENDENTLY from the OS and from any transfer protocol) CANNOT properly index a file larger than 4Gb.
Think of a common decimal counter with 4 digits.
The largest number it can accomodate is 9999.


:cheers:
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#5 ozzman39

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

i get what you saying but il tell you what i have done I have a 360 that i can ftp and transfer files to there's a attached storage device formatted in fat32 if i plug that hard drive into my computer and try to transfer a file onto it over 4 gb it will not fit for obvious reasons. but if I FTP into the 360 and transfer it that way the file fits and it work im guessing maby it could because the 360 is capable of indexing the file properly?

#6 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:16 AM

i get what you saying but il tell you what i have done I have a 360 that i can ftp and transfer files to there's a attached storage device formatted in fat32 if i plug that hard drive into my computer and try to transfer a file onto it over 4 gb it will not fit for obvious reasons. but if I FTP into the 360 and transfer it that way the file fits and it work im guessing maby it could because the 360 is capable of indexing the file properly?

No.
There is no issue whatsoever in "transferring" a file of arbitrary length (bypassing the filesystem), the whole point is accessing it once transferred using the filesystems structures.

I presume that by "360" you mean a XBOX 360, normally it uses NOT FAT32, but rather FATX:
http://www.free60.org/FATX
that anyway seems like having the same filesize limit.

It is possible that the device you have "attached" is actually exFAT formatted?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT
(which hasn't this limitation)

:cheers:
Wonko

#7 ozzman39

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:00 PM

the attached storage is fat 32 but the file system built into the console uses fatx i know the atached storeage is fat 32 cuz i formatted it. the side mounted Hd is fatx but not the attached storage. sorry if thats a lil confusing (hard drive it came with Fatx) (attached storage fat32)


I gess i answered my own question i just tried to transfer a file to a flash drive via ftp then plugged it into my pc was corrupted i guess it works for the 360 but not a pc (greater then 4 gb in fat32)

Edited by ozzman39, 22 October 2012 - 07:52 PM.


#8 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:54 PM

the attached storage is fat 32 but the file system built into the console uses fatx i know the atached storeage is fat 32 cuz i formatted it. the side mounted Hd is fatx but not the attached storage. sorry if thats a lil confusing (hard drive it came with Fatx) (attached storage fat32)

OK. :dubbio:
Attach the hard disk to *any* PC, and - provided that the partition on that hard disk gets letter F:\ (change accordingly) - open a command prompt and in it type:

DIR F:\ /S>C:\HD_dir.txt

Then, compress the C:\HD_dir.txt as a .zip or .7z archive, and upload this archive to any free hosting site and post a link to it.
I am curious to see how the size of a file larger than 4 Gb is listed.

Please do understand how what you posted till now is, to the best of my knowledge (and I do know a few things about filesystems), absolutely impossible.

:cheers:
Wonko

#9 Sha0

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:37 PM

Maybe the Xbox actually splits the file into pieces and reassembles them as-needed when the "file" is accessed. A directory listing would certainly be satisfying.

#10 ozzman39

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:33 PM

Pretty cool command i went ahead and found a file exceeding 4 gb to make it easier the file it outputted was 26 MB copy and paste is easier lol



Directory of H:Movies

10/22/2012 07:03 PM <DIR> .
10/22/2012 07:03 PM <DIR> ..
10/22/2012 07:13 PM 4,294,020,669 Movie.mkv
1 File(s) 4,294,020,669 bytes

#11 steve6375

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:59 PM

1 gibibyte, or 1073741824 (10243 or 230) bytes
so 4GiB = 4294967296 bytes - can you provide an example larger than 4GiB please?

#12 Sha0

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:52 PM

GB versus GiB strikes again. Nobody corrected the original post about that. Ha ha ha! :loleverybody: No wonder the confusion... :dubbio:

#13 ozzman39

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:00 AM

Directory of H:Movies

10/22/2012 07:03 PM <DIR> .
10/22/2012 07:03 PM <DIR> ..
10/22/2012 07:13 PM 4,294,020,669 Movie.mkv
10/22/2012 11:45 PM 4,294,824,745 Movie2.mkv
2 File(s) 8,588,845,414 bytes


Transfers a second file movie over it was over 6 GB before it transferd it (Movie 2.mkv) odd though it still works fine nothing wrong with it

#14 Sha0

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:25 AM

...
Transfers a second file movie over it was over 6 GB before it transferd it (Movie 2.mkv) odd though it still works fine nothing wrong with it

Do I score any points? Those pieces are then reassembled as-needed, but each piece cannot exceed the FS file-size limitation of 4 GiB. This process must obviously be transparent, if the Xbox didn't/doesn't yield any clues about the file transfer being split.

#15 ozzman39

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:29 AM

Do I score any points? Those pieces are then reassembled as-needed, but each piece cannot exceed the FS file-size limitation of 4 GiB. This process must obviously be transparent, if the Xbox didn't/doesn't yield any clues about the file transfer being split.


maby but the filewas over 6 gigs and it still works plays fine if it were reassembling it wouldn't it be the full size?

Edited by ozzman39, 23 October 2012 - 01:37 AM.


#16 Sha0

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:35 AM

maby but over 6 gigs a shaved and it still works plays fine if it were reassembling it wouldn't it be the full size?

There is volatile storage and non-volatile storage. The hard disk drives involved in your scenario are non-volatile storage. They retain information when they do not have electric power. RAM is an example of volatile storage; its contents are lost when the device loses power. To clarify, I meant that the file was reassembled in RAM, which doesn't have a FAT32 filesystem. In fact, "reassembly" is kind of a misnomer, as what's probably happening when you actually watch the movie is that there is a buffer that is being refilled from the file pieces... It's just that at the end of the first file, the buffer is then refilled from the second file to continue on, and so on. This is still a form of reassembly, but just not for the entirety-at-once notion.

#17 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:55 AM

Do I score any points? Those pieces are then reassembled as-needed, but each piece cannot exceed the FS file-size limitation of 4 GiB. This process must obviously be transparent, if the Xbox didn't/doesn't yield any clues about the file transfer being split.

NO you don't.
You are actually assigned 5 (five) negative points for appearing satisfied with what we have till now. :ph34r:

Right now we have that a file smaller than 4 Gb 4,294,020,669 Movie.mkv is listed with the correct size, that ANOTHER file (said to be) 6 Gb is listed as being 4,294,824,745 Movie2.mkv AND that it plays for the full length OK.

Questions:
  • WHERE the HECK are stored the "missing" 2 Gb? :w00t: (or if you prefer, where the heck is the second piece that hypothetically is re-assembled on-the-fly)?
  • What will happen after a normal operation (like a defrag)? :unsure:
  • What is the result of copying back the 4,294,824,745 Movie2.mkv to a filesystem such as NTFS or exFAT actually capable of indexing/storing a larger than 4Gb file?
  • WHERE does the second file (I mean PC or XBOX) 4,294,824,745 Movie2.mkv play OK for the full length?
  • The theoretical filesize is (see below) 4,294,967,295, how come the 6 Gb file became 4,294,824,745 ?

http://en.wikipedia....ion_Table#FAT32

The maximum possible size for a file on a FAT32 volume is 4 GB minus 1 byte or 4,294,967,295 (232−1) bytes. This limit is a consequence of the file length entry in the directory table and would also affect huge FAT16 partitions with a sufficient sector size.[1] Video applications, large databases, and some other software easily exceed this limit.

The math hasn't changed (yet):
0xFFFFFFFF=4,294,967,295
0xFFFDD329=4,294,824,745



:cheers:
Wonko

#18 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:55 AM

Sorry, double posted by mistake.

:cheers:
Wonko

#19 ozzman39

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:03 AM

tomorrow il see if it plays to the end not gonna defrag with it though lol

#20 Sha0

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:00 AM

NO you don't.
You are actually assigned 5 (five) negative points for appearing satisfied with what we have till now. :ph34r:

:boo: :baby: :hmm: :bye: :frusty:

I guess I totally misread the directory listing as having been all one transferred file. Oops. :dots:

I wonder what DIR /A would say...




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