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how to install syslinux on hard disk? like grub4dos?


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#1 ignored

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:17 PM

i use bootice to change my mbr to grub4dos and copy latest files from chenall's downloads but is this the same case with syslinux? you know copy some ldlinux.sys file to root? after setting mbr from bootice?

i don't see any sample config file or menu file which probably means i have to create my own.



i am very interested in making this as primary boot manager which can chain load grub4dos later. comparison of boot loaders say syslinux supports decompression of many fast formats which is very much attracting me :)


Sardu etc look like tools for USB, not sure if works same way for hdd.

#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:22 PM

Wouldn't actually reading the docs for Syslinux help (and no, you need to "install" it, ldlinux.sys is made "on the fly" spèecifically for the device):
http://www.syslinux....yslinux_Project
http://www.syslinux....ex.php/SYSLINUX
http://www.syslinux....YSLINUX#Options
http://www.syslinux....a_Bootable_Disk
http://www.syslinux....ndex.php/HowTos

:cheers:
Wonko

#3 ignored

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:52 PM

after extracting the zip there are too many folders which looks like source code but inside win32 there is an syslinux.exe


if i'm guessing right, i've to use this on cmd.exe along with some parameters which will create ldlinux.sys on hard disk and it will change mbr.




but this leaves me in a jungle, is there app like Sardu for hdd? just to make me feel comfortable for the first time, what the menu command to chain load grub4dos? because i plan to come back on windows again.

your first link shows "The Syslinux Project covers lightweight bootloaders for MS-DOS FAT filesystems (SYSLINUX)" but i have NTFS everywhere. Wikipedia says NTFS is supported since 4.06 version

Edited by ignored, 08 October 2012 - 01:53 PM.


#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:19 PM

if i'm guessing right, i've to use this on cmd.exe along with some parameters which will create ldlinux.sys on hard disk and it will change mbr.

No need to guess, and not even need to read pages and pages I already gave you two relevant links:
http://www.syslinux....YSLINUX#Options
http://www.syslinux....a_Bootable_Disk
If you already have a "normal" MBR that does chainload the active partition and the partition where you want to install syslinux is the active partition you can leave it alone (and not use -m option).

your first link shows "The Syslinux Project covers lightweight bootloaders for MS-DOS FAT filesystems (SYSLINUX)" but i have NTFS everywhere. Wikipedia says NTFS is supported since 4.06 version

Well, you cannot pretend to have "real-time" updates of everything.
NTFS was added relatively recently:
http://reboot.pro/15086/
and the 4.06 version, as you can see from the official pages above AND from the download page:
http://www.kernel.or.../boot/syslinux/
is not yet "released officially", but it is in the "testing" branch.

More generally Wikipedia and expecially that kind of "comparison table" often has not fully correct info, and tables are obviously simplifie, but specifically the:

ntfs(since 4.06), ?

most probably means that the author was not too sure about this, as a matter of fact, NTFS is suppoerted since 4.06 but 4.06 has not been released as "stable").

:cheers:
Wonko

#5 ignored

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

i created a virtualbox machine,
next created 1 vhd file mounted it on imdisk, added syslinux.exe (5.00 pre7) and unmounted
next attached it to vbox which already has another vhd attached, so total 2 vhds attached

next i booted to liveXP, tried syslinux.exe --install c:

but now it says feature not implemented to non removable disk :(


is there any other test build that allows installing on harddisk and supports NTFS? or do i have to create ext3/4 file system and use extlinux? which is another jungle?


??? Wonko, have you ever tried other builds or stable build on hard disk? anyway to chainload syslinux from grub4dos?

Edited by ignored, 08 October 2012 - 04:13 PM.


#6 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:13 PM

i created a virtualbox machine,
next created 1 vhd file mounted it on imdisk, added syslinux.exe (5.00 pre7) and unmounted
next attached it to vbox which already has another vhd attached, so total 2 vhds attached

next i booted to liveXP, tried syslinux.exe --install c:

but now it says feature not implemented to non removable disk :(

Try again:
syslinux.exe --force --directory /boot/syslinux/ --install C:

is there any other test build that allows installing on harddisk and supports NTFS? or do i have to create ext3/4 file system and use extlinux? which is another jungle?

I gave you a link both to a thread where the last experimental version was posted here on the forum and a reference to the "testing" branch in download, here:
http://www.kernel.or.../boot/syslinux/
http://www.kernel.or...slinux/Testing/

??? Wonko, have you ever tried other builds or stable build on hard disk? anyway to chainload syslinux from grub4dos?

See:
http://reboot.pro/11564/
(you still need to "install" Syslinux, only instead of doing it on the actual bootsector/PBR you do that on a bootsector file, cannot say specifically if the "testing" version 4.06 or a later one do support this for NTFS volumes)

Please note how some characters in CODE boxes have been corrupted by one of the board updates, check this:
http://reboot.pro/15275/
http://pastehtml.com.../b4t99xk89.html

:cheers:
Wonko

#7 steve6375

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:15 PM

try the -fma switches?

#8 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:03 PM

try the -fma switches?

Hmmm :dubbio:
The m will write the Syslinux MBR (which should be not needed if the OP has already partitioned the disk under XP or Live XP).
The a wiil mark the partition as active (which should be not needed if the OP has already marked the partition as active, as previously explained)
The f is the same as the already suggested --force

:cheers:
Wonko

#9 Damnation

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:44 AM

Syslinux 5.00 has broken windows binaries, so don't use 5.00

4.06pre7 works but pre8-pre11 are broken

apparently 4.06pre12 has them fixed though
http://www.zytor.com...ber/018210.html

so try 4.06

http://www.kernel.or...x/Testing/4.06/

#10 ignored

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

Thanks Damnation :) 4,06 pre12 installed. i see ldlinux.sys


i've changed my mind on keeping syslinux as primary boot manager. from the docs, i see the following command creates a syslinux.bin file which can be used by grub4dos.
syslinux.exe -f X: X:syslinux.bin




title Load syslinux menu

chainloader /syslinux.bin

...but how do i convert the following into syslinux config???

title x86 OS above 4GB RAM

find --set-root /x.vhd.lzo

map --mem-min=4G

map --mem /x.vhd.lzo (hd0)

map --hook

root (hd0,0)

chainloader /ntldr

does --mem-min=4G work on syslinux config or there is a different command? Also, if syslinux.exe -m not specified, does it install on pbr by default?



is there any chance the following can work?
first grub4dos starts and performs the following
title Only map mem min to 4G and start syslinux

map --mem-min=4G

root (hd0,0)chainloader /syslinux.bin

then syslinux starts and performs the following
APPEND --config-file="map --mem /x.vhd.lzo (hd0);map --hook;root (hd0,0);chainloader /ntldr"

Edited by ignored, 10 October 2012 - 06:38 PM.


#11 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:28 PM

ignored,
you are mixing all together different things, it is very difficult to follow you.
title x86 OS above 4GB RAM

find --set-root /x.vhd.lzo

map --mem-min=4G

map --mem /x.vhd.lzo (hd0)

map --hook

root (hd0,0)

chainloader /ntldr
WHERE does this come from?
WHAT is it about?
IF it works as is, WHY introducing syslinux in this? (and NO, you cannot mix things as in a shaker like that :w00t:).
IF it doesn't, let's troubleshoot and (hopefully) resolve the problem (and the solution may or may not include the use of syslinux).

You are currently slipping on a chocolate-covered banana :ph34r: :
http://homepage.ntlw...red-banana.html

The -m switch in Syslinux is for the case where you have a disk that has NOT the MBR CODE (or has a MBR CODE that does not perform the "standard" "boot the active primary partition" action AND you want to replace it).

:cheers:
Wonko

#12 Sha0

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:33 AM

...

syslinux.exe -f X: X:syslinux.bin

...

Yes. This essentially will take a copy of the current boot-sector, modify it as though it was installing Syslinux into the actual boot-sector, then save that as a file so that it can be loaded by any boot-loader that can load boot-sector files as though they are actual boot-sectors. GRUB4DOS, Syslinux' chain.c32, Windows' NTLdr and BootMgr can all do this.


title x86 OS above 4GB RAM

find --set-root /x.vhd.lzo

map --mem-min=4G

map --mem /x.vhd.lzo (hd0)

map --hook

root (hd0,0)

chainloader /ntldr

Syslinux doesn't have find nor map. It has MEMDISK.

LABEL x

    KERNEL /path/to/memdisk

    INITRD /path/to/x.vhd.gz

That's probably as close as you can get.

does --mem-min=4G work on syslinux config or there is a different command?

Syslinux is 32-bit. 4 GiB is the maximum amount of memory that can be addressed with 32 bits, without special extensions. Sorry.

Also, if syslinux.exe -m not specified, does it install on pbr by default?

Syslinux for HDD filesystems installs completely within a partition. Some other boot-loaders use the MBR and the space after the MBR and before the first partition. Syslinux does not.

The Syslinux Suite just so happens to include a "generic" MBR for your convenience, but it is not a requirement for Syslinux. The Windows Syslinux installers have the -m option to install this MBR for your convenience, in case you need it. If you have other traditional MBR code as (Wonko the Sane suggests you consider), then you don't need to install an MBR.

is there any chance the following can work?
first grub4dos starts and performs the following


title Only map mem min to 4G and start syslinux

map --mem-min=4G

root (hd0,0)

chainloader /syslinux.bin

then syslinux starts and performs the following
APPEND --config-file="map --mem /x.vhd.lzo (hd0);map --hook;root (hd0,0);chainloader /ntldr"

This doesn't make sense. You can certainly load Syslinux as you have described, but Syslinux APPEND needs something to have been loaded, such as a kernel or ComBoot32 module. What exactly are you supposing that APPEND would boot? GRUB4DOS? You just finished "leaving" GRUB4DOS to boot Syslinux!

#13 ignored

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:58 AM

:P The comparison of boot loaders table says syslinux supports decompression of gzip, bzip2, lzo, zip, lzma and i'm particularly interested in *.lzo

...but as suspected syslinux is 32 bit, i was hoping grub4dos might do some trick to set --mem-min=4g before starting syslinux.bin


after looking at this guide, i was trying to convert grub4dos menu item to syslinux config :P obviously i don't know all about syslinux yet, so should i remove "append"? sha0, if you know, can you give the right instructions of what i'm trying to do? (which is to map *vhd.lzo image above 4gb at super speed and then boot x86 OS?)

Edited by ignored, 11 October 2012 - 07:01 AM.


#14 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:19 AM

This doesn't make sense.

:thumbup:

http://homepage.ntlw...red-banana.html

What you are asking for makes no sense.

More:

All that you are going to receive by way of responses are bodges that attempt to do the nonsensical task that you have set, from people who are either making wild guesses as to what you are actually trying to achieve, or who don't understand enough about the tool that you have chosen to know that what you are asking makes no sense. In both cases, that isn't going to help you.

State the actual thing that you are trying to achieve. State what your actual problem is. Stop focussing on the minutiae of a particular solution. Stop forcing people to guess what it is that you are actually trying to do.

Forcing people to guess is wasting your time. More importantly, it is wasting their time. Many people will choose not to waste their time on you.

Choice made.
Have fun (either while booting or while completely failing at it).

:cheers:
Wonko

#15 Damnation

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

why not just chainload grub4dos? it'll probably be easier for you




label xxxxxx

menu label xxxxx

MENU INDENT 1

KERNEL /grub.exe

APPEND --config-file=/your-grub4dos.lst



your-grub4dos.lst



title x86 OS above 4GB RAM

find --set-root /x.vhd.lzo

map --mem-min=4G

map --mem /x.vhd.lzo (0xff)

map --hook

root (0xff)

chainloader (0xff)/NTLDR || chainloader (0xff)

 


also, why must you use lzo? can't you use gzip?

Edited by Damnation, 11 October 2012 - 01:03 PM.


#16 ignored

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:57 PM

In decompression, lzo is faster then gzip, it uses very little cpu and memory compared to gzip.


Problem is that grub4dos doesn't support decompression of lzo and syslinux does, if the table it right. With your solution, .lzo decompression fails because of grub4dos.

If I use syslinux, i loose the ability to map x86 OS above 4gb ram. Both of them are very important.



In my guess, the only way was to use them together, but as Wonko points out, obviously its "completely failing"

BTW, i am already using .gz solution but its the .lzo that got me attracted :P



sooo there is no memdisk command that makes use of PAE like grub4dos does, right?

Edited by ignored, 11 October 2012 - 08:07 PM.


#17 Damnation

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:19 PM

If I use syslinux, i loose the ability to map x86 OS above 4gb ram


Have you tried the 64-bit syslinux in win64?

Edited by Damnation, 11 October 2012 - 08:21 PM.


#18 Sha0

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:52 PM

sooo there is no memdisk command that makes use of PAE like grub4dos does, right?

No. But let's think about this... What is inside this x.vhd.lzo? An operating system? If so, which one? If so, is it 32-bit or 64-bit? If 32-bit, does it support PAE access to the RAM > 4 GiB? If it does, what RAM disk driver are you using that will use the RAM disk > 4 GiB?

#19 ignored

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:46 AM

Sha0: Sooo, you're telling me winvblock or firadisk does not support memdisk created by syslinux? because obviously i intended to use one of these :P

Damnation: I have not but even if works, i wouldn't to know the command that maps *.vhd.lzo exactly above 4th GB

#20 Sha0

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:07 PM

Sha0: Sooo, you're telling me

I'm not telling you anything. I asked 6 questions and you've replied with 1 answer.

winvblock or firadisk does not support memdisk created by syslinux?

I don't know what I typed that led you to believe I might be suggesting that.

because obviously i intended to use one of these :P
...

Thank you for this answer to my sixth question.

#21 ignored

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:34 AM

No. But let's think about this... What is inside this x.vhd.lzo? An operating system? If so, which one? If so, is it 32-bit or 64-bit? If 32-bit, does it support PAE access to the RAM > 4 GiB? If it does, what RAM disk driver are you using that will use the RAM disk > 4 GiB?

You asked question in a way that you guessed everything right :)

For the answer of:
01 you're right, OS.
02 XP :)
03 again you're right 32 bit
04 again you're right obviously it does support PAE

then i thought since you already guessed all right, you must be trying to suggest me something... because again you must have known i'll be using winvblock or firadisk and asking that makes no sense unless you're trying to suggest me something else...

NVM... But I just want to say,... winvblock is awesome :) since you're the developer and still alive in forum reading these... :cheers:

Edited by ignored, 15 October 2012 - 09:36 AM.





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