41 replies to this topic

[Michele13]

It looks so much at WinBuilder. It has almost the same gui. is this correct? I think that it is a good software but it copies too much from WinBuilder. Download the package and see by yourself

http://www.kare-net....ystempro-e.html

[MedEvil]

Since the source code for WB has never left 'the building', i can not see, how it could possibly be a copy.
Besides, i trust Kare that he did what he said and created a own builder.

[Michele13]

the package structure imitate the package structure of WinBuilder and there are some scripts like in WinBuilder. Now I ask myself why is difficult to use WinBuilder. it is so intuitive, I got a lot of problems because I was using a modified copy of the Windows XP CD but when I was suggested to use amalux's frozen builds all my problems disappeared because with the project I could download an unmodified copy of the Windows CD too
LiveSystem.pro got some troubles to me because when I try to build Win7PE it stops and when I build a WinXP LiveCD the LiveCD never loads and when the desktop appears the computer reboots

[Brito]

We now see a domain mimicking reboot.pro as reboot-pro.de, which in turns advertises a "karebuilder" that copycats winbuilder.

I'm flattered to see people copying our ideas and way of work, I'm just not happy to see someone ripping off our work/names and promote them as their own without providing any credits to the sources of "inspiration".


I know the author since years, even helped him with my personal time to bring his website online in 2009. So I understand that he somehow expects to make money and it is easier to copy our work than bring something new to existence. However, this is nowhere ethical and knowing his financial difficulties, I also don't want to report this case to the authorities.


@Michele13, Winbuilder is not responsible for projects that work with your Windows source or not. Projects for winbuilder are developed by other authors and wb is an engine that only interprets the instructions from a set of scripts. If a project works better than others then this depends on the project itself and not so much on Winbuilder.

[Michele13]

We now see a domain mimicking reboot.pro as reboot-pro.de, which in turns advertises a "karebuilder" that copycats winbuilder.

I'm flattered to see people copying our ideas and way of work, I'm just not happy to see someone ripping off our work/names and promote them as their own without providing any credits to the sources of "inspiration".


I know the author since years, even helped him with my personal time to bring his website online in 2009. So I understand that he somehow expects to make money and it is easier to copy our work than bring something new to existence. However, this is nowhere ethical and knowing his financial difficulties, I also don't want to report this case to the authorities.


@Michele13, Winbuilder is not responsible for projects that work with your Windows source or not. Projects for winbuilder are developed by other authors and wb is an engine that only interprets the instructions from a set of scripts. If a project works better than others then this depends on the project itself and not so much on Winbuilder.

I know that. I was not blaming winbuilder because some builds fails. that was my fault because i was not using RTM CDs. It is legal to download Windows 7 discs from here?

http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/

I found that link clicking on the WinBuilder Button: "List of Official Windows 7 ISOs for use as souce". This button appears on the Win7Pe amalux frozen build

[MedEvil]

You don't want to report what case?
Livebuilder.pro is written in C++, if i remeber correctly, winbuilder is written in Delphi.
So clearly na case here.

And since you never registered a trademark or special appearance, anyone can create something similar, legally.

And the guy with thereboot-pro.de domain. Registering a domain is not the same as registering a trademark.
In the later case you could have his domain seized.

Making money of our work, by selling it, is not any more amoral, than all the people downloading here and using our projects to make a living and do not give back to the community.
Something, which is perfectly fine with you.

[Michele13]

LiveSystem.pro is FREEWARE. she does not make money from it

[homes32]

Since the source code for WB has never left 'the building', i can not see, how it could possibly be a copy.
Besides, i trust Kare that he did what he said and created a own builder.

Obviously not the same program. LiveSystem pro is written VC++ 10 winbuild is written in Delphi 7
also LiveSystem is missing a ton a features of winbuilder such as script editor, log viewer, codebox, dynamic interface support.

at first glance looks ok. didn't see any mention of WB being mentioned in the credits/about box, which should be done if ideas and such were used from wb. if only to be polite.
syntax is very similar but last I checked clean-room reverse engineering / coping wasn't illegal. not really any different from what ReactOS is doing. and pretty much required if you want to be compilable with WB scripts/projects. so far all the scrips i have seen give credit to the original authors. I'll be taking a closer look later.

[vvurat]

i e-mailed him a few months ago about his ideas to program about a new pe builder. it is so bad that he just coded a clone of winbuilder


Edit: There was a mistake. Sorry. I mailed to the programmer of http://firesage.com/kape.php

[Franke-auf-Irrwegen]

Hi there...

I also agree with previous speakers (medevil, homes32) that there is really nothing wrong with this new project.
On the website this project or WinBuilder itself is not offered for sale.
michele13 has seen and said it right, they don`t make any money with it. Please take all a closer look first before you say something about it !

The project on this website is more appealing and understandable as English built projects for German users, like myself. Especially for beginners it's much better.

Unfortunately I can not understand this bad mood too, which here in the forum is formed.
It's great that there are other people that have build another project in the German language.
Why not just make a link to this page and leave it at that.

Or is it again just personal things from the past / rivalry and prestige, or even profit ?!?!?
I do not understand that someone claims, it would be stolen, without knowing anything more accurate.
It is a pity too that some script creators and supporters here just say the same not only to come into disrepute or to be kicked from this forum...


I do not want to make me unpopular, even if I do this now in some eyes here. => Everyone needs to know it himself...
There are also good English projects, but I'll definitely keep this project, in my oppinion : I like it better.
nice greetings ...
F.


@ Vvurat: Excuse me, are you jealous that he made it?

[pscEx]

The only concern I personally have:
I developed a project multiPE and published here in the reboot.pro forum.
In the above mentioned URL there is also a MultiPE offered for download (sometimes misspelled as MulitPE) ...

BTW: I already thought sometimes about writing a WinBuilder "batcher only", which processes the scripts w/o any interactive work, like it is known from *.cmd.

But IMO that did not make much sence. Maybe you save 10% of build time (as number 20 seconds), but you cannot change a build option, shortcut, association, bug on the fly. You do not have an script editor or dynamic interface editor.

Peter

[Franke-auf-Irrwegen]

@ ex

"The only concern I personally have:
I developed a project multiPE and published here in the reboot.pro forum..."


=> Then you should be also worried about XBOOT (CD / DVD too !), LinuxLiveUSBCreator, and similar projects (which can also multiboot creation) ... ?!

Edited by Franke-auf-Irrwegen, 21 May 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[vvurat]

@ Vvurat: Excuse me, are you jealous that he made it?

i did not understand the aim of this sentence? why should i be jealous? I do not have a project nor use winbuilder or will use LiveSystem.pro for to compare with. It was just a disappointment that it's smilar to winbuilder. I was hoping some creativity.

[cdob]

I also agree with previous speakers (medevil, homes32) that there is really nothing wrong with this new project.

didn't see any mention of WB being mentioned in the credits/about box, which should be done if ideas and such were used from wb. if only to be polite.

A lot of ideas and scripts is used from here.
It's a fork in some way. And origin is not mentioned.
That's very impolite, that's wrong.

And deleting inline credits in project files is very impolite too.

On the website this project or WinBuilder itself is not offered for sale.

What about future? Any clear statements form the author?

It's great that there are other people that have build another project in the German language.

Sure, a second choice is nice always.

[MedEvil]

The problem is, all the popular projects sport such 'bad' names.

- LiveXP
- VistaPE
- Win7PE
- MultiPE

All those names are the equivalent to 'John Smith'. Which is obviously bad for clear identification.
But make the name any more unique and people don't touch the project anymore, because they can't be bothered to actually rtfm.

[Franke-auf-Irrwegen]

@ Vvurat: I don`t wanted to attack anyone personally... (sorry)

Maybe it looks so, but that should surely not make much (because it was indeed realized in a few months).
We are honest now: if it would look different, many still do not like it here in the forum, that it was developed ...

[Franke-auf-Irrwegen]

And now this webside is the perfekt excample (who i explaned in my last post => last line )
of how it should not run.
look = reboot-pro.de


The first thing right now:

Thank you trolls in this forum (who feels himself addressed !!!) ...
This is no joke to have threaten the family of him ...

Edited by Franke-auf-Irrwegen, 22 May 2012 - 07:03 AM.

[TheHive]

Not a bad Start. Similar to Winbuilder. Couldnt get it to finish the build. Got stuck when processing the Explorer script. Used three different sources. WinXP SP0 -WinXP SP2-WinXP SP3. Same error.

According to the log it stops at

CopyOrExpand,K:\I386\shimgvw.dl_,C:\LiveSystempro\Target\LiveXP\I386\System32\shimgvw.dll

If-then = True: If,ExistFile,%source_win%\ASMS\1000\MSFT\Windows\GDIPLUS\GDIPLUS.dll,then,FileCopy,"%source_win%\ASMS\1000\MSFT\Windows\GDIPLUS\GDIPLUS.dll","%target_sys%"

-Error- FileCopy: K:\I386\ASMS\1000\MSFT\Windows\GDIPLUS\GDIPLUS.dll , C:\LiveSystempro\Target\LiveXP\I386\System32

========== Time: 0.82 ==============

Checked the source and there is a file GDIPLUS.dll


Tested the Win7 PE build and it seemed to build ok.

[vvurat]

I want to say SORRY and really disappointed, if i had any role at the termination. I just wanted to say my opion. I just installed it to see what it looks like and it was seeming working more faster and simpler than the winbuilder. In any condition i think he should not terminate the web site, after he worked months to create something new.

[Brito]

@ Vvurat: I don`t wanted to attack anyone personally... (sorry)
Maybe it looks so, but that should surely not make much (because it was indeed realized in a few months).
We are honest now: if it would look different, many still do not like it here in the forum, that it was developed ...

Copycat and brand name misrepresentation are illegal since a long time ago because of the work ethics of some people: http://www.duhaime.o...PassingOff.aspx

Kare is taking away due credit of intellectual work from our friends and developers, claiming our effort as his own doing and this is simply not "ok" on a civilized society, fitting onto the description of software counterfeit (http://en.wikipedia....iki/Counterfeit).

This discussion serves as clarification of these facts, helping to establish a public time line of the reported events.

[Franke-auf-Irrwegen]

@ vvurat - no, not because of you ...(Guess there were any more stupid poor kids who wanted to intimidate and stress ... )

@ TheHive - I do not know what you're doing, but when I run all scripts completely through, it works for me.
And I do not know about scripts, coding and PC very well, just like you ....
(and my source is even: German based WinXP Pro + Home (each edited with nlite so that SP3 and drivers are already integrated /
normal German Install CDs are working for me too ...)

@ nuno - "clarification of these facts" / "public timeline of the reported events" are the right words at the moment...
Then you should check to be honest and tell us all why Kare worked and developed suddenly no longer with / for "your" and "your friends" projects...
(after the WinBuilder has been completed).
Why then should he not start his own project, which could see the WinBuilder similar ...
This is my opinion:
Therefore, the idea is not stolen.
However, I rather think it's ok for you that this happens to him now. Only to retain the "power monopoly" (and even by any means) ...

@ all others - it's just cowardly to act so and move his family into it. I understand why this site is suddenly closed.

Edited by Franke-auf-Irrwegen, 22 May 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[paraglider]

Seems to me to be a good attempt at creating an alternate pe builder. Would be better though if you could just drop the program into the winbuilder directory and it used the existing winbuilder script projects unchanged.

[pscEx]

Seems to me to be a good attempt at creating an alternate pe builder. Would be better though if you could just drop the program into the winbuilder directory and it used the existing winbuilder script projects unchanged.

That is not possible.

There are some changes made, e.g. in the If - statement:

• 'EQUAL' is replaced by '='
• 'Begin' is replaced by 'Then'

The structure is still identical to WinBuilder syntax.

EDIT: Honi soit qui mal y pense

Peter

[Brito]

@ nuno - "clarification of these facts" / "public timeline of the reported events" are the right words at the moment...
Then you should check to be honest and tell us all why Kare worked and developed suddenly no longer with / for "your" and "your friends" projects...
(after the WinBuilder has been completed).

Don't doubt about my honesty as I'm not the one behind a new user profile created with the purpose of replying to this topic. I show my face and take the consequences for my actions or mistakes.

Why then should he not start his own project, which could see the WinBuilder similar ...
This is my opinion:
Therefore, the idea is not stolen.
However, I rather think it's ok for you that this happens to him now. Only to retain the "power monopoly" (and even by any means) ...

If you are using a similar GUI, similar scripting language, similar domain name, same project names and take advantage of the reputation/work that we built over the years to obviously deprive this community of its merit, then it is classified as theft in many countries, where Germany is included: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft

So, go ahead.

Explain to me and to our community how this kind of savage/unethical behavior by a developer is a good thing and should be further motivated.

Explain to this community how every other developer reading this topic is wrong to complain when someone uses the same name/look of their work and then call it "better".

[MedEvil]

I think some members here are confused.
We're talking about 2 seperate problems here.
- LiveSystempro - a builder by Kare, which looks similar to WinBuilder
- reboot-pro.de - a german site, which ripped off our name and was trying to sell projects. Ours!

The site has closed now and has nothing to do with LiveSystempro Builder or Kare!