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#1 darren rose

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:12 AM

Hi

Have been using win7pe_se for a while now (and before that win7rescue_pe)

It is used in my work as an imaging tool, to boot from usb and deploy an image to new computers ready for them to be given to users

All this time I have had no problems at all, but the latest batch of Dell computers have come with just USB 3 ports - so when PE boots it gets halfway and then loses connection to the USB port - hangs for a while and eventually shows a desktop, but I have no access to any programs or the USB device itself


Help!! - I have a huge number of computers to roll out and not sure what I need to do to get win7pe_se working with USB 3?

Has anyone come across this problem or got a solution for it?

Many thanks

#2 Agent47

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:02 PM

Win7pe se already supports USB 3.Just download the latest zip package and rebuild win7pe with USB 3 support selected.

#3 darren rose

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 06:07 PM

Assuming you mean the RemovableDeviceUSB3.script in the drivers folder?

tried that and still doesn't work

The laptop is a Dell Vostro with AMD Vision A4 - assume I need some different drivers - but not sure how to do it - or whether that plugin could be updated so it includes support for this model too?

#4 cdob

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:27 PM

There are no generic Windows 7 USB3 drivers.

Which windows files do you use? x86 amd64?

Which Vostro do you use?

Which USB3 controller do you use?
Name the HardwareID's and compatibleId's from device manager.

#5 MedEvil

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:41 PM

Shouldn't a USB3 port be backward compatible with USB2.0 drivers?
How about disabling the USB3 script in Win7PE_SE?

:cheers:

#6 darren rose

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:47 PM

There are no generic Windows 7 USB3 drivers.

Which windows files do you use? x86 amd64?

Which Vostro do you use?

Which USB3 controller do you use?
Name the HardwareID's and compatibleId's from device manager.

x86

Vostro 3555

It has an AMD USB 3.0 Host Controller

PCIVEN_1022&DEV_7812&SUBSYS05131028&REV_03
PCIVEN_1022&DEV_7812&SUBSYS05131028
PCIVEN_1022&DEV_7812&CC_0C0330
PCIVEN_1022&DEV_7812&CC_0C03

Compatible ID =

PCIVEN_1022&DEV_7812&REV_03
PCIVEN_1022&DEV_7812
PCIVEN_1022&CC_0C0330
PCIVEN_1022&CC_0C03
PCIVEN_1022
PCICC_0C0330
PCICC_0C03

And also has AMD USB 3.0 Root Hub

AMDUSB30ROOT_HUB30&VID_1022&PID_7812&REV_0003&SID_05130128

Compatible ID = AMDUSB30ROOT_HUB30

#7 cdob

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:14 PM

Shouldn't a USB3 port be backward compatible with USB2.0 drivers?

USB3 ports use different HardwareID. A USB2 *.inf file won't match.
A USB2 *.sys driver may match, testing would be nice.

A USB3 device works at a USB2 port.


PCI\VEN_1022&DEV_7812&CC_0C03

DriverPack Chipset 12.03 contains PCI\VEN_1022&DEV_7812 drivers.
http://driverpacks.n...s/7/x86/chipset

Disable RemovableDeviceUSB3.script
Try 'Driver Integration' to include drivers.

Do you boot from USB3 port?
Do you use boot.wim RAM load?

#8 darren rose

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:38 PM

I found some drivers on the Vostro resource CD and included them using the zz_Drivers.script - and this seems to work fine

I can supply you the drivers if you want to update your USB 3 script to include AMD USB3 host/controller?

Yes I boot from USB3 port - this laptop only has USB3 ports

Yes I use boot.wim RAM load


#9 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:47 PM

Shouldn't a USB3 port be backward compatible with USB2.0 drivers?

NO, a USB 3.0 port (with it's appropriate USB 3.0 drivers) is backward compatible with USB 2.0 devices... (and USB 3.0 devices automatically "negotiate" with a USB 2.0 port and slow themselves down in order to be backwards compatible).

:cheers:
Wonko

#10 MedEvil

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:13 PM

When i put a XP-Gold (without USB 2.0 drivers) on a Computer with USB 2.0 ports, then they do work, but just as USB 1.1 ones.

:cheers:

#11 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:43 AM

When i put a XP-Gold (without USB 2.0 drivers) on a Computer with USB 2.0 ports, then they do work, but just as USB 1.1 ones.

Last time I checked a XP "Gold" it did have provisions in usbport.inf for EHCI, UHCI and OHCI.... :whistling:

JFYI:
http://blogs.gurulab...06/06/post.html

:cheers:
Wonko

#12 MedEvil

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:09 AM

What has the linked blog to do with XP-Gold? And what do you mean by, had provisions?

:cheers:

#13 darren rose

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:20 AM

No sure why we are even mentioning XP - this is a forum for 7PE and my question was about USB 3 on Win7PE - nothing to do with XP - so not really relevant

#14 MedEvil

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:46 AM

Yes and in Win7 everything works completely different than in XP, right?

:cheers:

#15 darren rose

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:47 AM

well no not everything, but going on about USB working in XP is in no way relevant to sorting the problem with getting AMD USB3 working in Windows 7 PE is it?

#16 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:47 PM

What has the linked blog to do with XP-Gold? And what do you mean by, had provisions?

Well, it was in the case you could not read the usbport.inf knowing how there are three types of "standards", and that they are OHCI, UHCI and EHCI.
XP Gold had not EHCI (read USB 2.0) enabled drivers, but it defaulted to it's "companion" OHCI or UHCI slower drivers:
http://support.micro...kb/312370/en-us
this is not the case with USB 3.0.
See if this clears the matter:
http://en.wikipedia....(USB,_Firewire)

EHCI only provides high-speed USB functions. It relies on a "companion controller", either OHCI or UHCI, to handle full- and low-speed devices. Motherboards and PCI Cards that provide high-speed ports thus have two controllers, one handling high-speed devices and the other handling low- and full-speed devices.

xCHI (read USB 3.0) is different.

:cheers:
Wonko

#17 MedEvil

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:53 PM

To kidnap this thread a bit further, sorry darren rose!

With USB 3 controllers, they removed the stacked approach and replaced it with a single controller, which handles all speeds, if i understood the wikipedia article correctly. (Thanks btw, Wonko, didn't knew that.)

But if that is so, than how can darren rose have this problem:

All this time I have had no problems at all, but the latest batch of Dell computers have come with just USB 3 ports - so when PE boots it gets halfway and then loses connection to the USB port - hangs for a while and eventually shows a desktop, but I have no access to any programs or the USB device itself

Shouldn't he get problems right from the start, without the proper USB 3 driver?

Also, if XHCI is a standard by the USB-IF, like OHCI and EHCI, why would there be no standard driver, like for OHCI and EHCI? :confused1:


:cheers:

#18 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:36 PM

Shouldn't he get problems right from the start, without the proper USB 3 driver?

Cannot say, but it is possible that only "partial" support is in the PE (like for USB Hub and not for USB Port or something like that) :unsure:

Also, if XHCI is a standard by the USB-IF, like OHCI and EHCI, why would there be no standard driver, like for OHCI and EHCI? :confused1:

You are too old not to know how the word "standard", expecially when used by hardware or software engineers, means in reality "do whatever you see fit, as there is no way anyone can understand the document we prepared and approved, which is however so flaky that making something incompatible in perfect good faith will happen surely".
(and remember that among ALL, DELL's have a tradition for making something that completely fails to work with standard solutions ;))
Seriously, even if the driver is "same" if PCI/VEN is not in the .inf it won't ever be installed. :dubbio:

What is "strange" in darren rose's report of his misfortune is the "way" it hangs, it seems like the "disconnection" happens "later" in the boot process then what we were used to.

:cheers:
Wonko

#19 cdob

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:55 PM

I found some drivers on the Vostro resource CD and included them using the zz_Drivers.script - and this seems to work fine

Thanks for report.

I can supply you the drivers

I prefer chipset drivers from chipset manufacturer.
http://support.amd.c...id_windows.aspx

if you want to update your USB 3 script to include AMD USB3 host/controller?

I didn't create RemovableDeviceUSB3.script.
RemovableDeviceUSB3.script is obsolete nowadays and can be deleted. Why invent the wheel again?
zz_Drivers.script and DriverPacks chipset package are fine.

Yes I boot from USB3 port - this laptop only has USB3 ports
Yes I use boot.wim RAM load

PE boot from RAM disk.

A special case would be flat file booting from USB3 port.
However: I assume 1GB RAM at last at a USB3 boot capable machine.
Is USB3 flat file booting required at all? A RemovableDeviceUSB3.script would be nice in that special case.


Shouldn't he get problems right from the start, without the proper USB 3 driver?

Bootmgr loads boot.wim to RAM using BIOS. PE boots from RAM disk.
As for bootmgr and PE: there is no USB involved so far.
A full booted PE can't access USB3 controller without proper drivers.

Also, if XHCI is a standard by the USB-IF, like OHCI and EHCI, why would there be no standard driver, like for OHCI and EHCI?

Sure there is a standard driver: Windows 8 provides usbxhci.sys and usbhub3.sys.
There are no standard 2000 to Windows 7 ones.

#20 darren rose

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:59 PM

okay no problem - will continue doing it with zz_driver script for now

Just thought USB3 should be something considered to be added to the default 7PE build rather than having to add drivers afterwards? or using zz_drivers / driverpacks

Surely more and more new computers will come with just USB3 ports and if 7PE had a "working" script specifically for USB 3 - then no one would come across same issues I am

Obviously all other drivers can easily be added once PE has booted - but USB3 is an exception, as PE needs access to it to boot properly

#21 MedEvil

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 04:18 PM

@darren rose
If you could test, if the Win8 USB3 drivers work for you in Win7PE_SE, tehn we had a universal solution to the problem.

:cheers:

#22 darren rose

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 04:20 PM

no problem - if someone could supply me the win8 usb3 drivers - I will happily try them

#23 MedEvil

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:39 PM

Here are the 2 drivers + inf from Win8_DP.
Link gelöscht!

Let me know, when it's ok to delete them again.

:cheers:

#24 darren rose

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:42 PM

thanks - now downloaded - will test later - you can delete them now

#25 darren rose

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:56 PM

just tried adding these win8 usb3 files and unfortunately they don't work for the AMD USB3 on my Dell Vostro laptops




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