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Create a bootable WinPE 4.0 USB drive

winpe4.0 usb boot adk

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#26 misty

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:21 PM

Misty,
I will try your batch file, and report back with results regarding exFAT.

I suspect that it won't work but wish you good luck. I included the batch to show how to manually create a BCD store as the instructions you had been provided would not have worked.

Microsoft deliberately did not include the WinPE-Wow64.cab package in the ADK, which is a required component for running 32bit apps on a 64bit OS.


This has been a problem in previous 64-bit versions of WinPE. If a 64-bit PE is required then the easiest solution would be to replace your 32-bit applications with 64-bit applications - e.g. use a 64-bit program launcher, file manager, etc.

Not the best solution, however if your goal is to create a minimal WinPE with a GUI replacing the command prompt shell then it's probably the easiest. It depends on how hard it will be to add 32-bit support and the increased size of boot.wim as a consequence.

My basic 32-bit WinPE contain only a shell (bblean - also available in a 64-bit version) and file manager (a43) within boot.wim - this keeps the size nice and small. A file manager can generally also be used as a program launcher.

Regards,

Misty

#27 ericgl

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:48 PM

Misty,
I put 64bit versions of my favorite apps on the WinPE4.0 x64 flash drive, and they work fine (Q-Dir, Ghost64, etc).
However, there are still lots of apps that I need which were only designed as 32bit.

#28 misty

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:46 PM

Misty,
I put 64bit versions of my favorite apps on the WinPE4.0 x64 flash drive, and they work fine (Q-Dir, Ghost64, etc).
However, there are still lots of apps that I need which were only designed as 32bit.


@ericgl
Getting 32-bit application support in 64-bit WinPE seems like a great challenge, and again I would like to wish you good luck with this goal.

If you are attempting this for the challenge then it's worth pursuing it. Even if not successful I'll guarantee that you will learn loads of useful stuff along the way, however I would first ask what your goals are?

I personally like to keep my WinPE as minimal as possible - adding only stuff I want and trying to keep the overheads down. I have no interest in using WinPE as a full operating system replacement and am happy with my minimal toolset. All of my programs are 32-bit and I very rarely need 64-bit WinPE - in fact the only time I dust the cobwebs off of my 64-bit build is when installing 64-bit windows.

I manage this by dual booting 32 and 64-bit versions of WinPE - something altogether easier to do. I openly admit to being lazy :P

If you want any help with dual booting 32 and 64-bit versions of WinPE then let me know. Hopefully it's the same procedure as for WinPE 3.0.

Very off-topic considering the title of this thread, however I'm sticking with my WinPE 3.0 for now. I really don't see any benefits for me in upgrading at the moment. WinPE 3.0 seems to launch Windows 8 setup without any problems and this would likely be my only reason for upgrading. Please let me know if I'm missing out.

Regards,

Misty

#29 ericgl

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:22 PM

Misty,

I too like to keep my WinPE as small and fast as possible.
All the standalone apps that I use with WinPE are outside of the WIM file, and reside on the flash drive in their own folders.
As you know, It doesn't matter if you have only 5 apps or 500 that reside directly on the flash drive - WinPE will still boot just as fast.

I currently carry four flash drives:
1. NTFS Win8 CP x64 that's running directly from the flash drive.
The good: It can do everything as any regular installation on an internal HDD.
The bad: it's slow to boot since it needs to load lots of files, in addition to my USB2.0 flash drive being really slow at 15MB/s. Yep, really sluggish, but it works.

2. FAT32 grub4dos (grldr) flash drive with menu.lst, which can boot pretty much any ISO I put on it.
This works great and is very recommended. I have Win7PE_x86.ISO, WinPE4.0_x86.ISO (FAT32), WinPE4.0_x64.ISO (FAT32), HirenBoot15.1.ISO...plus many more on it.

3. FAT32 WinPE4.0 x86, which boots directly from the WIM (as created in this tutorial). It's light and loads quickly.

4. BackTrack 5 R2 Linux x64 KDE. Those who have it, know what it's meant for.

That's my arsenal, and I'm proud of it :) .

As for WoW64 on WinPE x64 and WinPE on exFAT - Like you said, those are just experiments that challenge me. Thankfully, I'm learning new things along the way.
by the way, thanks for all your help.

 

EDIT (2016-01-24):

I have successfully managed to get WinPE to boot on exFAT-formatted USB drive.

I used the files that are available on Win10 ISO\Sources\Boot.WIM\1\Windows\boot\PXE.



#30 misty

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:07 PM

I too like to keep my WinPE as small and fast as possible.
All the standalone apps that I use with WinPE are outside of the WIM file, and reside on the flash drive in their own folders.
As you know, It doesn't matter if you have only 5 apps or 500 that reside directly on the flash drive - WinPE will still boot just as fast.


@ericgl
One of my own setups is similiar to this. I also have a .wim with all of my essential applications that I boot over a network - that way if I have any problems connecting to a network share I still have my main tools to hand (in the wim). It's still a pretty minimal build mind you.

I'm not sure what's on all of my thumb drives as I keep misplacing the damn things. In terms of my day to day use I carry around a portable hard disk - now containing Windows(8) To Go.

You sound as though you have every eventually covered by your arsenal.

If you want to add multiple wim options to this guide and need any suggestions I'll do my best to help. I love my grub4dos based USB stick but not everyone wants to invest time in grub4dos and the native WinPE 4.0 boot manager is not half bad.

by the way, thanks for all your help.


It's a pleasure. Thanks for taking your time to document your experiences with WinPE 4.0 (and WIndows 8).

Regards,

Misty

#31 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 06:55 PM

OK can I pose a question? :unsure:

I may understand (and only up to a certain point, i.e. only within the limits of some specific fields) the *need* for a 64 bit OS.

But WHAT is the actual *need* for a 64 bit PE? :w00t:

And please write the answer in simple words, such as a dinosaur like I am can understand, like examples of things that you can do in a 64 bit PE that you cannot from a 32 bit one.....:dubbio:


:cheers:
Wonko

#32 misty

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:08 PM

But WHAT is the actual *need* for a 64 bit PE? :w00t:


@Wonko
I haven't installed a 64-bit WIndows in quite some time, however if memory serves then a 64-bit WinPE is required to run the 64-bit installer.

Other than that I don't see any use for one personally.

Misty

#33 Akshat Mittal

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:33 AM

But WHAT is the actual *need* for a 64 bit PE? :w00t:


Choose Your PE according to Your Needs, a 64bit PE can address much more memory than a 32bit OS can.
32bit OS can address just 4GB of Ram (and in some cases just 3GB), if you have Ram greater than 4GB, it will be wasted on using a 32bit PE.

The COMPLETE PE (including Wow64) can Run Both 64bit and 32bit Apps, so a Greater Compatibly is there, as we don't have Wow64 Package for WinPE 4.0, we have to Choose it According to Our Immediate Needs.

Choose Your PE According to What You Are Gonna do with That.

#34 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:33 AM

Choose Your PE according to Your Needs, a 64bit PE can address much more memory than a 32bit OS can.
32bit OS can address just 4GB of Ram (and in some cases just 3GB), if you have Ram greater than 4GB, it will be wasted on using a 32bit PE.

I know. :)
You seemingly failed to read attentively my question :dubbio: (or - more probably I omiitted some basic background info :ph34r:).
Which specific apps do need more that 3 Gb (once you have excluded "professional" and "high end": Graphic programs, Rendering and modeling, and the like)?
Can you post examples of programs (and connected activities) that you can ONLY do (and normally do - hence the *need* ) from a 64 bit PE?

Playing the game the other way round, I will list for you what issues I see with a 64 bit PE:
  • it is BIGGER and thus noticeably SLOWER when loading from "not internal hard disks" (like "normal" DVD or USB 2.0 devices)
  • it is LESS portable unless ALL PC's you have around (and your mom's and your friend's and netbooks and what not) are ALL 64 bit, otherwise you need to have handy ADDITIONALLY a 32 bit PE
  • it cannot use a number of drivers if not in test signing mode
  • for anything BUT heavy computational chores is NOT faster (or noticeably faster) than a 32 bit one



:cheers:
Wonko

#35 misty

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:46 AM

@wonko
Ah, but 64-bit is newer and therefore must be better. :P

I don't know how I'd live without it on my 4GB machine - fancy not being able to access that additional 512MB (or so) of RAM.

Stop being such a dinosaur and move with the times. Progress for the sake of progress after all - Let's not worry about what we actually need.

Can't chat as I'm off to buy the latest ipad.

Misty

#36 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 10:57 AM

Can't chat as I'm off to buy the latest ipad.

Well, don't.
The model you can get today is the old one! :w00t:
OT :ph34r: but not much ;), new technology paradigms:
http://reboot.pro/16395/

:cheers:
Wonko

#37 wimb

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:02 AM

Make_PE3.exe can be used with 64-bits Win7 as Source to create 64-bits 7 PE
that supports also to run 32-bits apps.

http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=23931

But I agree that in general 64-bits PE is not desired at all

Also Portable XP or Win 7 can boot as FILEDISK and have much better performance than 7 PE
e.g. you have printer support and all changes like extra installed programs or drivers are remembered.

http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=23553

64-bits Win7 running in 2 GB VHD http://reboot.pro/98...post__p__149945

:cheers:

#38 Akshat Mittal

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:05 AM

@Wonko


You don't know what a PE can do, and what it is Used for or You don't want to know.

Using a 64bit PE can be a Great Advantage to Many Things, 64bit is Always Faster on a 64bit Processor (most of the Processor in today's time), Or maybe you don't want to use 64bit PE because Here Wow64 is not available.


64Bit is Better, Efficient and most of People here have more than 4GB of Ram.

Do Whatever You want to But Please Don't do anything before you know what are you doing.


AND


@misty

If you use a 32Bit PE on a PC with more than 4GB of Ram, it will address just 2.45GB of Ram (I don't Know Why).



#39 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

You don't know what a PE can do, and what it is Used for or You don't want to know.

Well, no, I do know what a PE can do, rest assured.

Using a 64bit PE can be a Great Advantage to Many Things, 64bit is Always Faster on a 64bit Processor (most of the Processor in today's time)

Good :), can you LIST the EXACT advantages AND the Many Things they apply to?

Is a Porsche 911 better than a Toyota Hilux? :unsure:
http://www.911cd.net...pic=24502&st=12

If you use a 32Bit PE on a PC with more than 4GB of Ram, it will address just 2.45GB of Ram (I don't Know Why).

You can see the difference here, I do know why. :smiling9:
This time - notwithstanding the clarification - you really FAILED to answer my question.

But it's OK :) I just had a look at your profile, and everything is now explained.

Heck, 1997 is the year I bought my SECOND Toyota Hilux (having weared out the first one by making some 280,000 Kms with it) :frusty:
You have to be more patient with us old, old guys. :rolleyes:

:cheers:
Wonko

#40 misty

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:24 AM

64Bit is Better, Efficient and most of People here have more than 4GB of Ram.


In terms of 64Bit being better - not for me it's not. My Netbook PC has a 32-bit processor and only 1GB of RAM. Also, all of the applications I use are 32-bit. In terms of people here having more than 4GB of RAM - I suspect that you are wrong. I was amazed to come across a post by sha0 recently (can't remember where - no doubt Wonko will link to it in due course) which detailed a very low spec system with far less than 1 GB of RAM.

I think Wonko's point was to question whether 64-bit is actually needed and to question what for. This will obviously depend on what you use your PE for.

If you use a 32Bit PE on a PC with more than 4GB of Ram, it will address just 2.45GB of Ram (I don't Know Why).


The amount of RAM that will be seen by Windows varies. I get (I think) 3.5 GB on my desktop. I read somewhere that Windows reserves 512 MB and you will therefore see a maximum of 3.5 GB of RAM in My Computer > Properties. Some systems have a lot less due to integrated graphics cards using system RAM.

Regards,

Misty

#41 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:45 AM

JFYI, there is no real 4 Gb Ram limit in 32 bit:
http://www.geoffchap...ense/memory.htm


:cheers:
Wonko
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#42 misty

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:58 AM

@Wonko
Thanks for the link. I've skimmed the first few paragraphs and it makes interesting reading. I'll save the rest of the article until I have a few hours to spare - chr!st it's long ;)

Misty

#43 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

Thanks for the link. I've skimmed the first few paragraphs and it makes interesting reading. I'll save the rest of the article until I have a few hours to spare - chr!st it's long ;)

Well, it has to debunk a myth that has been around for years, so it needs to be very detailed and documented.
A short time after it was published, some nice guys from Russia wrote "user friendly" patches for Vista and 7.

:cheers:
Wonko

#44 misty

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:24 PM

....some nice guys from Russia ...


There are a lot of nice guys around from Russia (and China, and India) at the moment. They are proving to be very helpful in many areas. Particularly around improving Windows by adding stuff MS have removed, and also removing (or working around) stuff they have added - product activation springs to mind.

On a personal note I'm hoping someone is able to assist with adding true Native Boot VHD for Windows 7 product versions that don't currently support it! It would be even better if someone could also get this working for legacy OS's.

Misty

#45 Akshat Mittal

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

OK
​Now For all the Confirmations, The thing Goes Like,

@misty
What You Said that Windows Reserves some Memory, is a Different thing, Windows Reserves different amount of Ram on Different PC for Functionality of the Hardware,
And Of Course, a PC with 1GB Ram can NOT Handel a 64Bit OS efficiently. 64Bit is Recommended Where You have Memory of 4GB minimum (it is not Compulsory) .
Microsoft Limits the Ram of 32Bit OS to 4GB, Use Linux and Enjoy.
I have seen a PC with 4GB Ram, 64Bit Processor, Running "Windows Developer Preview 32bit", It addressed 2.45 GB of Ram over there.

@wonko
Thank You for that Article, but That is Self-Explanatory, If you have read it Yourself, You can Notice Some things,
It Runs on a XEON Processor Which is made for this Specific Purpose, These are Server Processors, These processors can Handel Much More Ram than any other Processor even on a 32bit OS, On Normal Processors (or PC) Ram is Handled by the OS and in Case of Server Processors, it is Handled by the Processor and Given to the OS on NEED.

64Bit Functionality can Store more Values at Once than a 32bit OS,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

Both the Architectures Have its Own Benefits, Use What You want and not What others Want.
You use What You Want.

And For the Answer for

But WHAT is the actual *need* for a 64 bit PE? :w00t:

There are Many Programs that are 64bit Only, Not in Your Case, I don't Remember any for now.
For Server Administrator, it is Required to address more Memory Efficiently for Diagnostics, Here a 64Bit PE is Used.
Is This is Better Answer?? :suda:

#46 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:46 PM

There are Many Programs that are 64bit Only, Not in Your Case, I don't Remember any for now.
For Server Administrator, it is Required to address more Memory Efficiently for Diagnostics, Here a 64Bit PE is Used.
Is This is Better Answer?? :suda:

NO.
In the sense that is AGAIN an answer to ANOTHER question, i.e. NOT the one I asked.

I DID NOT ask for a list of programs that exist ONLY in 64 bit form. (and BTW if I had asked that you have failed anyway to produce such a list)

I asked for an EXACT LIST of activities and programs that you normally use and that create the NEED for 64 bit PE, as said I can understand the need for a 64 bit OS allright.

Thank You for that Article, but That is Self-Explanatory, If you have read it Yourself, You can Notice Some things,
It Runs on a XEON Processor Which is made for this Specific Purpose, These are Server Processors, These processors can Handel Much More Ram than any other Processor even on a 32bit OS, On Normal Processors (or PC) Ram is Handled by the OS and in Case of Server Processors, it is Handled by the Processor and Given to the OS on NEED.

Now this is interesting.
The word "Xeon" does NOT appear in this article:
http://www.geoffchap...ense/memory.htm
the patch works allright on any hardware as it has NOTHNG to do with hardware, but with an artificially introduced limitation in the software.
If you want a screenshot of a non-Xeon, look at this:
Before:
Spoiler

After:
Spoiler


:cheers:
Wonko

#47 Akshat Mittal

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:52 PM

That is What I Said, Microsoft Has Made this Limit into Windows OS, a Patch needs to be Applied in order To Use it, And Also I mentioned the Word "Efficiently".

Can I know Where You got that Image From.

Edit: On the Same Page, it is Written:
""Yet Microsoft sells 32-bit Windows Server 2008 for use with as much as 64GB of memory.""

Edited by Akshat Mittal, 23 March 2012 - 12:59 PM.


#48 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 01:17 PM

That is What I Said, Microsoft Has Made this Limit into Windows OS, a Patch needs to be Applied in order To Use it, And Also I mentioned the Word "Efficiently".

No, what you said was that a Xeon hardware was involved (and that it worked because it was a server architecture).


@wonko
Thank You for that Article, but That is Self-Explanatory, If you have read it Yourself, You can Notice Some things,
It Runs on a XEON Processor Which is made for this Specific Purpose, These are Server Processors, These processors can Handel Much More Ram than any other Processor even on a 32bit OS, On Normal Processors (or PC) Ram is Handled by the OS and in Case of Server Processors, it is Handled by the Processor and Given to the OS on NEED.

What the article says is that UNLIKE common beliefs, there is no actual "mathematical" or "hardware connected" 32 bit limit (4 Gb) as Vista :ph34r: and Windows 7 can have PAE enable i.e. 36 bit addressing, raising the limit to 64 GB BUT that Microsoft decided to limit artificially the amount of accessable RAM linking it to licensing scheme.
http://en.wikipedia....dress_Extension
BTW in Windows 7 Starter edition this limit is lowered to 2 Gb:
http://msdn.microsof...8(v=vs.85).aspx

Can I know Where You got that Image From.

No.
http://homepage.ntlw...no-answers.html

:cheers:
Wonko

#49 Akshat Mittal

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 01:31 PM

First, Forget the Xeon, it is a Different thing, next,
Tell me Why are we Fighting.

And the Third,
We are Saying the Same thing, Then There is no point is Fighting.

#50 wimb

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 01:41 PM

On a personal note I'm hoping someone is able to assist with adding true Native Boot VHD for Windows 7 product versions that don't currently support it! It would be even better if someone could also get this working for legacy OS's.

You mean something like:

Win7 Professional booting from VHD http://reboot.pro/98...post__p__128716
Portable and Mini Win7 VHD with WinVBlock or FiraDisk driver http://reboot.pro/98...post__p__149407

XP installed to VHD and booting as FILEDISK or as RAMDISK http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=23553

:cheers:





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