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Discussion about new site policies and Hiren related topics


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#26 sambul61

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:54 PM

I guess MedEvil possibly meant that giving instructions on how to improve Hiren's CD or other products, which themselves or their adaptation may be viewed as illegal, is indicative of intent to use and facilitating use of such packages in an improper manner. Of course discussing the legality of using or modifying such products is lawful and appropriate IMHO.

Wonko

The reason for my remarks is simple. According to my long term observations, you're not the "crystal ball girl" you're trying to portray, and many expressed overtime serious reservations about your honesty, integrity, law abidance and actual motifs of your "dices", and often very aggressive forum behavior in the not so distant past. It will take a pound of salt for some to trust your single world, no matter how nicely packaged. :dubbio:

#27 NigelMDL

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:52 PM

I am one of those users that uses Hiren in combination with Windows PE boot cd's.
The reason for this is because I am still learning the ropes on building my own recover discs. But I must admit, not finding alot information about Hiren like why won't it work on USB and such just made me search for other options.
For instance I am finding myself in a position where I am looking at leaving Hiren behind me. And use information found here and on Technet to create my own bootable sticks and cd's.

But thats off-topic :)
I do like the fact that there are no bans here when you talk about Hiren and such simply because its something a lot of people use. Even non tech people :)
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#28 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:07 PM

Wonko

The reason for my remarks is simple. According to my long term observations, you're not the "crystal ball girl" you're trying to portrait, and many expressed overtime serious reservations about your honesty, integrity, law abidance and actual motifs of your "dices", and often very aggressive forum behavior in the not so distant past. It will take a pound of salt for some to trust your single world, no matter how nicely packaged. :dubbio:

I must have given some false impressions. :unsure:

I have never tried to portrait myself as a "crystal ball girl" (whatever you mean by it :w00t:).

What - supposedly - "many expressed overtime", is of course the "opinion of the many" and may (or may not) be completely void of any relevance, accuracy and/or truthfulness.

Additionally whether the whatever was expressed "according to your long term observations" by "many" was defamatory along the definition of the new set of Policies has to be judged by the Admin of the Board, as well as the nature of any similar attempts, more or less covert, that are- or will be - posted against me or the contents I post.

About the pound (I would have guessed that a pinch would have been enough, but melius abundare quam deficere) of salt, it is actually very good advice, and applies not only to "some" or just to me or my posts, but also to any member of the board or more generally to anything that is published on a board or on the internet in general.

As you might remember, it was to convey exactly this idea, and easen the life of everyone, including and expecially you, that I added to my signature the :

WARNING:
it is very likely that the above post:
contains unneeded, superfluous, out of topic or plainly wrong info, posted thoughtlessly and unneededly to the only scope of confusing other people or making their life more difficult
for posts after December 20th, 2010 - it is followed by a comment by someone that explains the above and suggests what I should post and how
this signature was added in order to easen the efforts of anyone willing to better me or the quality of my contributions, I am too old and stubborn to change my way of being.


so that there is no possible misunderstanding about the need of analyzing the contents of my posts before trusting them (IF it is the case) and that there is no need for you to continuosly point it out.


:cheers:
Wonko
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#29 MedEvil

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:35 PM

... and that there is no need for you to continuosly point it out.

One can never point out too often: "No that's no decoration, that's the fine print and you should read it!" :lol:

:cheers:

#30 cdob

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:32 PM

Let's view from outside. Imagine a new user:
several projects supports H*
It's recommended to use this.

A user may assume, that's legally fully.
Another user may distrust whole community, because of supporting questionable parts.

I understand: a builded PE is not redistributable without manufacturer permission.
Redistribution is a unlawful act.

We are a defacto warez supporting community currently.

In my opinion: H* should not be supported here at reboot.pro.

#31 Nuno Brito

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:41 PM

We are a defacto warez supporting community currently.

- MS drivers for WIM files are/were included on our legal projects since several years (no file distribution rights)
- We support DriverPacks: http://en.wikipedia....ks#Legal_status (no IP rights)
- Many topics around here approach changes in the way how Windows is supposed to boot/work (reverse engineer/modifications)

I say we keep a defacto tradition in solving tough problems, innovating and helping other folks.

In my opinion: H* should not be supported here at reboot.pro.

For the record, MS only objects the hosting/distribution of files without paying a royalty to them and this is negotiable: http://neosmart.net/...ted-reinstated/

Microsoft does not object the discussion or improvement of Windows PE boot disks projects. We should not fall into the mistake of being "Mais papista que o papa": http://www.ciberduvi...ta.php?id=26660

#32 cdob

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:20 PM

Appearantly decision is done already http://reboot.pro/forum/137/

Can you add a sticky about legal notice: unknown redistribution permissions?

#33 sambul61

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:59 PM

The royalty is not the only reason for MS to object to unauthorized file redistribution. They are also concerned about revenue loss and compromised user experience, which comes with distributing moded or outdated files bearing same as MS file names. The agreements cover these subjects too. But MS doesn't sign often such agreements, and in fact never signs them for wast majority of their products, with rare exception, and in most cases with their own daughter companies. Neosmart said to negotiate permission for the free Windows recovery package, which can't be used as OS instead of a licensed Windows. There is no risk for MS to lose revenue in giving that particular permission if it was given. One might need be more caution IMHO in making broad conclusions from such an example.

Its logical though to assume that if Copyright holders feel their rights violated, they will notify the site owner of such violation as a first step. However, what's interesting in recent enforcement action, the indictment didn't mention any complaints of 3d parties as direct cause of their action. It just goes to say, the site owners knew what they were doing regardless what they were trying to portray.

I wonder how many users show steady interest to Hiren's CD here? If the number is small, may be it's not worse the talk? I put it simple: why would one need a Hiren's CD, if any service program can be installed to a native boot small ThinPC VHD? :1st: Hope, its not because many of Hiren's programs are cracked. And, btw Windows offers free extendable trial periods.

#34 MedEvil

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:46 AM

sambul61, for someone, who despises Wonko, for trying to drive his point home, you surely can't stop promoting vhd usage, every which way.
How much royalties has M$ promised you? :poke: :lol:

:cheers:

#35 sambul61

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:53 AM

You construed me wrong. :lol: I don't despise (i.e. distaste with a pound of salt) Wonko, but rather point to opinions "many expressed overtime". Basically Wonko's cry is "how someone could possibly replace MY Rules with something else"??? Look at Hiren's talk - it goes from 2006, including honey months of her Throne, when she was apparently numb about Hiren.

Posted Image
Sir Wonko The Manipulator with a crutch. Unknown painter.

I won't stop promoting VHDs any way deemed appropriate by "some", even if MS would entirely obscure its personal royalty program. :P If you believe its illegal, pls advice. Otherwise, you may want to read one of VHD Tutorials linked below to replace your family Hiren habits (or lack of thereof). :dubbio:

#36 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:42 AM

Basically Wonko's cry is "how someone could possibly replace MY Rules with something else"??? :dubbio:

Not at all, regarding Warez the "Policies" are in no way different from old "Rules".
The "cry" about the change - had you actually read the thread:
http://reboot.pro/16512/
is only relative to Rule #12 which I was particularly fond of and to the disappearing of "Common Sense Advice", of which I was also very happy of, and to a few other aspects that I see as problematic.


Just for the record, last time I checked, I was male and thus would prefer to be addressed as "he" instead of "she", if you don't mind.

Please notice how - now that you are informed about the above - this piece of info being anyway clearly stated on my profile:
http://reboot.pro/us...wonko-the-sane/
insisting in this misrepresentation of my gender will be reported to the board administration as being sexist/abusive/harassing according to Policies.


One can never point out too often: "No that's no decoration, that's the fine print and you should read it!" :lol:

You seemingly missed the smart part of my signature :dubbio:.
By pre-declaring myself how contents of my posts "is very likely to contain unneeded, superfluous, out of topic or plainly wrong info, posted thoughtlessly and unneededly to the only scope of confusing other people or making their life more difficult" I protect other members like Sambul61 from risking to be accused of defamating me when they post the same piece of info about my posts.
Additionally, I protect them from the need to comment negatively, each and every time, on my posts, something that if repeated over and over could be well considered defamatory/harassing.

@cdob
That's exactly the point I am trying to understand.

I can live very well knowing that this board does support Warez (as well as I can live very well knowing that it does not), but I find "queer" the current stance, summed up in post #12
http://reboot.pro/16523/page__st__11
as I find it unfair and discriminatory to all the other good Warez besides Hiren's ;).

And there is an additional doubt whether the use of the adjective "reloaded" can be freely used or not. :unsure:



:cheers:
Wonko

#37 sambul61

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:27 PM

insisting in this misrepresentation of my gender will be reported...

About "reported" part, I see... Were you doing it all your life? :rolleyes: "Suffusion of blue" - a secret agent (of course not a rat - meaning Robust Audio Tool) - I like that. Sorry for your loss - the Rules substituted for you the entirety of creative content on this forum and the rest of the web, and suddenly... they are gone. :blush:

As to gender issue you're having, again, its not my fault - look at your photo and explain - how to figure out your gender? Any particular reason, you insist of being called Male? :dubbio: From your profile:

Age - Age Unknown
Birthday - Birthday Unknown
Location - The Outside of the Asylum

Friends - Wonko the Sane hasn't added any friends yet.
All Just for the record, whoever is on Slashdot, it's not me. :dubbio: Wonko the Sane

See - you're in denial mode. Not much to take home... Don't see a gender line in your profile at all - probably part of the bigger conspiracy around you. ;) But if you insist - no problemo bro.

#38 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

As to gender issue you're having, again, its not my fault - look at your photo and explain - how to figure out your gender?

I then take from granted - from your photo - that you are not human, but rather a furry little creature from Alpha Centauri. :w00t:

Don't see a gender line in your profile at all - probably part of the bigger conspiracy around you.

Yes, it must be a conspiracy, as I can see that line:
Posted Image
most probably one of the n issues with the board and it's settings.

But if you insist - no problemo bro.

BTW, the fact that you are now are officially informed about my gender does not in the least authorize you to call me "bro", as I am not a relative, and not even a friend of yours.

:cheers:
Wonko

#39 pscEx

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:00 PM

Yes, it must be a conspiracy, as I can see that line:

I agree to conspiracy or :wodoo: : I cannot see the 'gender' line.

BTW: No more way to include a simple jpg?

Peter

#40 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:23 PM

I agree to conspiracy or :wodoo: : I cannot see the 'gender' line.

Yep :), upon verification, that line appears ONLY if I am logged in and I view my own profile. :w00t:
Most probably the same happens to "every" member. :unsure:
A nice way to protect the privacy of members, I might say, and at the same time, should one have any doubt, useful as a reminder.... :whistling:

:cheers:
Wonko

#41 i

i

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:49 PM

00. I don't very often come here but when i do... it all start like below:
01. :)
02. :loleverybody:
03. :rofl:

#42 Tripredacus

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:57 PM

There is usually a setting of "show gender" or "show birthday" in the settings panel, but on here those options do not show up. Its probably just disabled by default.

As far as Hiren's goes, it is popular but illegal still, but so is using nLite in a business, or (technically) downloading a movie via torrent that you have on VHS so you can burn it to DVD. When running a popular website you need to do what you can to protect it, but you also know you cannot police the internet. Sooner or later someone will find something (usually something old floating around) and you'll get a DMCA letter. Then you get to choose whether you want to have a break-fix approach or a proactive approach of protecting the site. Do you want to wait until someone complains about something and you get to the point where you have to choose to have a file and have a website?

To me it is like this. I can't help you with warez and you can't link to warez.

I tried not to give away too many secrets. ;)

#43 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:05 PM

As far as Hiren's goes, it is popular but illegal still, but so is using nLite in a business, ...

The issue is not at all about the legal status of anything, though - just for the record - your two examples differ greatly: first one is about a Copyright infringement, second one is an infringement of the Eula.

First one is protected by international treaties, second one - possibly - by local law.

But the point is only about the Policies and the way they are/will be applied.

Given for a moment that Hiren's is as legal (or illegal) as *any* other Warez PE (I will not mention any particular name) and both constitute equally (or do not) an infringement of Copyright (prohibited by Policies) it is difficult for me to understand why Hiren's discussion and support (but not links to it) are OK, whilst other Warez PE releases are a no-no. :unsure:

If you prefer, I am trying to defend the rights of less popular Warez PE's to have the same (not better, not worse) treatment on the board.

I mean how would everyone be able to get to know these other Warez? :unsure:

How could they manage to become (if worth it) more popular than Hiren's? :ph34r:

If course Nuno :worship: is perfectly free to choose whichever solution, Policies, interpretation of them, and what not he fancies, but it would be nice if the whatever would be:
  • definite
  • public
  • not subject of decision dices

:cheers:
Wonko

#44 sambul61

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:08 PM

does not authorize you to call me "bro"

Sir yes Sir! Sir, how do you like your fresh painting Sir? :innocent: Sorry Sir, would you kindly pre-approve "Sir" title for your kindness, Sir?

#45 saddlejib

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:21 PM

@ sambul61
I like to see a man 'doffing' his hat, like the millworkers did in the uk, 19th century (late 1800 hundreds) when they went to collect their wages, they were so grateful for being allowed to slave in atrocious conditions whilst Britain ruled the world (and them).

#46 sambul61

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:37 PM

I'll do it, when Sir Wonko will call me a Bro. :afro:

Posted Image

Warm welcome to Sir Wonko from my uncle Tom.

#47 saddlejib

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:48 PM

I heard ya:

But in-as-much as "procrastination is the thief of time"
Diplomacy for all. Quote “If only our great thinkers could learn to talk, and our great talkers could learn to think”
Ashleigh Brilliant
He Ashleigh Brilliant must have stole that from Oscar Wilde !

Edited by saddlejib, 14 March 2012 - 11:51 PM.


#48 Nuno Brito

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:30 AM

Plenty of opinions about this matter were made available and taken into consideration.

However, this discussion if falling into off-topic with a not-so-nice exchange of arguments between some members.

Therefore, I am closing this topic.

With my regards,
Nuno Brito




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