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#1 Nuno Brito

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:25 PM

Hello,

We now have a tutorial system available, the idea is to ease the access for readers to relevant posts and tutorials in our community.

At the end of the first topic on an article, you find the option to promote the forum post to a tutorial.

It is possible to promote to tutorials the posts made by other members and keep their membership, just be sure to select the correct member on the dialog box.

Unfortunately, there is no way to directly link the original tutorial on the forum with the support topic that is created for each new tutorial posted on the system.

---

This tutorial system is under tests. If we see that it does not fit our needs then it will discarded.

Please let me hear your opinion about this, thanks!

http://reboot.pro/tutorials/

--- EDIT ---

Please help us and add links to tutorials you consider interesting.


Hope you like it,
:)

#2 amalux

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:41 PM

Not sure how it's related and probably not a big deal but this post shows posted by me when really it was posted by you (I assume). I guess it's a glitch (?); I can see where this could get confusing. Also, it's not clear to me why this post is necessary; a separate support topic already exists (setup by Wonko).

Not upset or anything; just reporting. :)

#3 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:12 PM

Also, it's not clear to me why this post is necessary; a separate support topic already exists (setup by Wonko).

It is EXACTLY as clear as (just a s an example) the need for the "staff" account.

And for the record, the topics were made at the time by jaclaz,(not by Wonko - the Sane) and by Lancelot, and their utility nullified by the thoughtless use of the new board software/settings that removed the visibility of subtitles (and thanks to the fact that only two of the three original topics were renamed) so that right now you cannot distinguish between this:
http://reboot.pro/4111/
and this:
http://reboot.pro/5226/
and this:
http://reboot.pro/5225/
from the title :whistling:
This new feature made ALL THREE of the above indistinguishable from this:
http://reboot.pro/16393/

Original idea:
  • have a single, easily identifiable topic as "tutorial"
  • have a single, easily identifiable topic as "thank you and suggestions for the Tutorial"
  • have a single, easily identifiable topic as "help/troubleshooting with the tutorial"
See:
http://web.archive.o...hp?showforum=31

If evolution worked like this ..... :frusty: I am in doubt :dubbio: if this would be the planet of the apes or the planet of the ants, most probably the latter.... :whistling:

:cheers:
Wonko

#4 sambul61

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:13 PM

We now have a tutorial system available

Does this system assume that a Tutorial thread won't be amended, and all Q & A will be done in a supporting thread? In what section each of them will be placed after clicking on Promote to Tutorial? How they'll be linked? :dubbio:

Will the promoted post be separated from others in the same thread - and the rest will go to Q&A? What if a post in the middle of a thread is so good, readers want to see it promoted to a Tutorial?

What if someone promotes a post to a Tutorial, but the author doesn't mean it to be a Tutorial - can the author demote it from Tutorials? :) I'd prefer promotion to Tutorials vote based: say, threshold of 10 Promote clicks plus the Author's approval must be met to have a post promoted to a Tutorial, unless posted by the author in Tutorials.

Another thing, it would be nice to be able to group all Tuts of the same author under one expandable subfolder or such.

Wonko

I looked at your Wayback example, but didn't get what is much different there? Why the need for 3 topics for a single Tut - most stay empty anyway?

#5 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:39 PM

I looked at your Wayback example, but didn't get what is different there?

I cannot believe you actually looked at it and couldn't see what I also textually described. :dubbio:

.... and their utility nullified by the thoughtless use of the new board software/settings that removed the visibility of subtitles ....

Well, no :dubbio:, on second thought, actually I can believe that. :whistling:


Then:

Thread #5226:
Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP with Optional BootSDI!
Bug reports and troubleshooting thread

Thread #5225:
Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP with Optional BootSDI!
Thank you's and suggestions thread

Thread #4111:
Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP w/ Optional BootSDI!
Read the TUTORIAL here!


Now:

Thread #5226:
Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP with Optional BootSDI!
Thread #5225:
Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP with Optional BootSDI!
Thread #4111:
Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP, Win7PE & Portable Apps!
Thread #16393:
[tutorial] Newcomer's Tutorial - LiveXP, Win7PE & Portable Apps!


....and not really-really "hidden" the reasons why:
http://reboot.pro/4111/page__st__3


:cheers:
Wonko

#6 sambul61

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:52 AM

Thanks Wonko,

I feel, the idea of dividing a single Tutorial on several threads adds complexity in a topic that needs simplicity. Not many Tuts are heavily posted anyway. I like the way, Olof addresses any issues: he either moves unrelated stuff to a separate thread, or explains in detail related stuff, but in a way there is really nothing more needed. I would be interested to hear his opinion on how to make Tuts more accessible, because he has first hand experience in being a user and an author, maintaining his work. At times I'm really amazed by exceptional support he provides to some people, he never spoken before. But at least I got what you mean. :)

IMHO its important to account for author's right to protect his work from abuse, for example irrelevant talk or another product advertising presented as discussion, even in a separate discussion thread for the Tutorial. Or, if only a single person Promotes a Post to a Tutorial despite having say 1-2 posts on this forum, so no-one actually knows whether this person is qualified to do such promotion. Even more important, the author's rights should be protected - what if he doesn't want to publicize his work too much for a time being or ever? Or plans to finish it before posting as a Tut to avoid unneeded critique? That's why I suggested to have some merit system: who can Promote (number of posts), how many members should Promote to make it happen, the author must approve. What do you think? :merc:

Generally, its a good idea to have Tuts more accessible to everyone, especially novices who at times can't get around the forum easily. Some details need to be polished IMHO.

#7 Nuno Brito

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:20 AM

Hello,

Right now only members from the advanced user level and beyond are allowed to promoted topics to tutorials.

Voting would be nice but it is not implemented and it would be very difficult to get any votes, especially for the older topics.

I like this system because it makes tutorials a bit easier to find. A new support topic is created for each promoted tutorial, I will just define the tutorials forum section as the place holder for them.

One could define the separated tutorial forum sections we have right now onto read only mode ajd recommend visiting the tutorials system.

However, from past experience I am very eager in using the tutorial system if that means that the tutorial is not available on the forum.

Many systems have come and gone, the forum is the only system that survives through the decades.

Oh well, these are some of my worries. I like the concept but I don't like the tradeoffs.

#8 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:49 PM

I like the way, Olof addresses any issues: he either moves unrelated stuff to a separate thread, or explains in detail related stuff, but in a way there is really nothing more needed. I would be interested to hear his opinion on how to make Tuts more accessible, because he has first hand experience in being a user and an author, maintaining his work.

Olof :worship: is keeping his sub-forum very "clean" and ordered, notwithstanding the fact that some users - just like they do everywhere else - skip or ignore instructions and post where they shouldn't, a random example :whistling::
http://reboot.pro/2148/
http://reboot.pro/16353/

The approach was at the time the same as the one used for splitting the amalux's thread, an attempt to organise the the threads in order to allow people to find easier key information when a single thread becomes too big, and at the same time allow the Author to post updates/integrations/whatever.
A difference worth of noting being that unlike Olof (who has available a "whole" sub-forum for IMDISK) amalux nice tutorial has not.

:cheers:
Wonko

#9 sambul61

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:28 PM

Voting would be nice but it is not implemented and it would be very difficult to get any votes, especially for the older topics.

Thanks Nuno, that's a real barrier, if software doesn't provide such functionality.

Wonko

Its only natural for people to show immediate reaction to News. Even if that thread you linked was named "Announces of new releases", still some space for feedback on specific news would be expected. For example, Opera always announces new versions (even test ones) each on a new page to allow for feedback. I think that particular News format you suggested to Olof is flawed. B) Even in Blogs now there is always space for feedback.

#10 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

Its only natural for people to show immediate reaction to News. Even if that thread you linked was named "Announces of new releases", still some space for feedback on specific news would be expected.

And - apparently - also for posting suggestions, questions and whatever crosses one mind.
A blog is "different", there is a "greater relevance" to the Author's post (and "main part" of the page as opposed to the "feedback", "comments" or "whatever crosses one's mind"), in the Forum the character size, background, forrmat, etc. are the same for all users thus when you have a mixed/all-together thread with tens of posts it becomes more difficult to fiind the relevant parts (the actual object of the topic filtering those posts from the questions, thank you's, suggestions, troubleshooting, OT posts, etc.).

:cheers:
Wonko

#11 Nuno Brito

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:58 PM

Hello,

I have been working on a better solution for this matter and have a new approach to present.

The "Links" tab on the top of our pages was renamed to "Tutorials" and all the links already listed there were moved to a new category entitled "External sites".


This is still not completed, at least it solves the issues of:
- Creating (yet) another topic when a tutorial was already published on the forum
- Does not place the content of the topic outside of the forum (writers were worried about copyright and duplicate content maintenance)
- Allows placing more than one link in different categories if deemed necessary
- If the "links" system is lost one day, we still keep all the tutorials unharmed as intended
- Allows linking to external sites that are deemed as relevant
- Avoid another app, tutorials and links are merged together

Hope you like this approach. I think it addresses most of the issues raised previously and allows to build a nice tree of relevant links for reading.

:cheers:

#12 Nuno Brito

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:52 PM

Ok, the system has been customized and adapted to our needs.


If you wish to help, please submit links to tutorials around reboot.

Thank you!
:cheers:

#13 sambul61

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 06:57 PM

It sounds like a good idea to me. :thumbsup:

Consider replacing FDD with FDD & HDD & Other Images or such. For example, creating DOS HDD Image was important task for me when servicing a hard drive, resulting in this Tutorial, since the info on creating various HDD image types and comparison btw them is scattered and scarce.

Also consider adding Virtualization as a subdirectory to External Links, as there are many sources of info on it, and the topic becomes extremely hot. For example, according to MS 30% of Win8 CP copies are being installed to VHDs.

#14 wimb

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:49 AM

Hope you like this approach. I think it addresses most of the issues raised previously and allows to build a nice tree of relevant links for reading.

Hallo Nuno,

The Tutotorial Link system is indeed improved, but there are still some unwanted effects.
If someone creates a Tutorial link then his name will be displayed as connected to the Tutorial,
whereas it would be better if the original author of the Tutorial would have been displayed.
Also content of such Tutorial link cannot be modified by the original author. :(
and that can lead easily to confusion .....

I think that using Tags like usb and vhd and tutorial is providing already a better means to find related posts on a subject.

:cheers:

#15 Nuno Brito

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 10:17 AM

It sounds like a good idea to me. :thumbsup:

Consider replacing FDD with FDD & HDD & Other Images or such. For example, creating DOS HDD Image was important task for me when servicing a hard drive, resulting in this Tutorial, since the info on creating various HDD image types and comparison btw them is scattered and scarce.

Also consider adding Virtualization as a subdirectory to External Links, as there are many sources of info on it, and the topic becomes extremely hot. For example, according to MS 30% of Win8 CP copies are being installed to VHDs.

I added HDD, no need for "Other images" to keep it simple. I've added a "General" where other links can be placed. Can you add the links to your tutorials at the new system?


Hallo Nuno,

The Tutotorial Link system is indeed improved, but there are still some unwanted effects.
If someone creates a Tutorial link then his name will be displayed as connected to the Tutorial,
whereas it would be better if the original author of the Tutorial would have been displayed.
Also content of such Tutorial link cannot be modified by the original author. :(
and that can lead easily to confusion .....

I think that using Tags like usb and vhd and tutorial is providing a better means to find related posts on a subject.

:cheers:

Yes, I understand. I'm splitting each of your lines in numbered topics to keep it easier to reply.

1) On the link author description I changed the "By" with "Link submitted by" to ease distinguishing between who submits the link and who created the tutorial.

2) To solve a poor description of each link, I granted permissions for developers and .script developers to change them as appropriate

3) It is debatable if it would be better to show the tutorial author as the link author. For example, this feature was available on the previous tutorial system and I used it on the tutorial of amalux that was quick to show his disapproval for such action without his consent (with good reasons to do so). Also, this feature is not available on the new system and I don't have the means to add this kind of functionality.

However, this can be solved with a manual process. You can ask a moderator (tutorial writers, developers) to delete the old link and replace it a new one that you create.

The other option is asking authors to add the links by themselves and hopefully we will be seeing this happen more often in the future.

4) You can already search with the use of tags, however this means that people have to tag their topics and use the same tags to provide meaningful results. We had the tag system available for more than a year and seldom times anyone adds tags.


5) I've added a description on the main tutorials page requesting people to only link back to content found on reboot.pro.

My worry is seeing links that drive readers away from our community or to places where we can't assure that they are safe for browsing. This doesn't mean that external sites can't be mentioned, I just appreciate that all links pertaining to external sites are placed under the "External sites" category and that our categories are used to host and support the works from our own community.

:cheers:

#16 wimb

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:19 AM

1) On the link author description I changed the "By" with "Link submitted by" to ease distinguishing between who submits the link and who created the tutorial.

2) To solve a poor description of each link, I granted permissions for developers and .script developers to change them as appropriate

Thanks for explanation and making changes. :)

1) "Link submitted by" is displayed when opening the Link to read the description,
but in the list of links per subject and in the main page of the forum, there is still "by" written.

2)As "Advanced user" I am however not allowed to edit the content of the Link to my Tutorial, where the Link was generated by someone else. :(

:cheers:
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#17 Nuno Brito

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:56 AM

Thanks for explanation and making changes. :)

1) "Link submitted by" is displayed when opening the Link to read the description,
but in the list of links per subject and in the main page of the forum, there is still "by" written.

2)As "Advanced user" I am however not allowed to edit the content of the Link to my Tutorial, where the Link was generated by someone else. :(


No problem

1) The text was modified to "Link submitted by".

2) Wimb is now recognized as an official reboot.pro developer, with moderation skills on forum and tutorials

:cheers:

#18 wimb

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:01 PM

2) Wimb is now recognized as an official reboot.pro developer, with moderation skills on forum and tutorials


Thanks for the promotion. :)

The Edit button is visible now.

:cheers:
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#19 sambul61

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:52 PM

I think that using Tags like usb and vhd and tutorial is providing already a better means to find related posts on a subject.

This is also a good suggestion for Tutorial authors to use Tutorial tag in topic description. Can be useful for those using Advanced Search forum feature.

Nuno

I'm still testing the feature. Probably tomorrow. Currently clicking on both Tutorial Picture and its Title opens its brief description page. It would be nice to have a legible portion of a Tutorial Preview Snapshot image open by clicking on its Picture in Tutorials list, similar to Amazon books preview pages.

#20 sambul61

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:23 PM

Ok, the system has been customized and adapted to our needs.

Nuno

I've being testing the new Tutorial system, and found that "Delete Link" button doesn't work: when its pressed, a window opens stating "Insufficient privileges". So the Tutorial authors are able to link their work, but are blocked from deleting the link, even temporarily to do required updates.

Please fix this, as the system should allow authors to delete the links to their Tutorials submitted by anyone. Some links may need temporary be put down by the author, until the Tutorial is updated or substituted by a new one. Blocking such ability discourages new Tutorials development, and may result in possibly avoidable complains. Otherwise some contributors may feel their work was stolen from them, especially keeping in mind the newly changed forum Policies can't have retroactive effect, and many Tutorials were written long ago.

#21 Nuno Brito

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:26 PM

Forum rules are available since 2006: http://reboot.pro/82/ before superseded by current forum policies.

You should be reminded of rule #8:

... The Admin/Mods of this board reserve the right to edit, delete or move posts made on this site.


I replied to your private message about your request.




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