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#26 laddanator

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 03:23 AM

Wonko,

Thanks for the link for the PLoP! I burned my helper disc, plugged my 500 gig Toshiba external hard drive to a old laptop, booted to the cd and on the main menu of PLoP scrolled down to usb boot and my USB drive booted up. The cool thing was is when I ran uuid from the grub command prompt, NO MORE ERROR!!! :) I can't believe as much technology we have, that new computers still have that 128 gig limit on USB.

#27 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:37 AM

Yep :).
Grub4dos has no "internal" USB stack and simply relies on whatever info the BIOS provides it, that in your case is simply "wrong".
It is possible that the motherboard manufacturer will release a new BIOS but do not count too much on it.
PLoP has an internal USB stack, that works with LBA48 and passes the "right" info to grub4dos. :thumbsup:
If you prefer it is not grub4dos "fault" when it doesn't work, nor it's "merit" when it does, if you (actually your BIOS) feed it with "garbage", you have "garbage" as a result....

:cheers:
Wonko
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#28 laddanator

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 01:36 AM

Yep :).
Grub4dos has no "internal" USB stack and simply relies on whatever info the BIOS provides it, that in your case is simply "wrong".
It is possible that the motherboard manufacturer will release a new BIOS but do not count too much on it.
PLoP has an internal USB stack, that works with LBA48 and passes the "right" info to grub4dos. :thumbsup:
If you prefer it is not grub4dos "fault" when it doesn't work, nor it's "merit" when it does, if you (actually your BIOS) feed it with "garbage", you have "garbage" as a result....

:cheers:
Wonko


Do you think Grud4Dos will ever use LBA48 independently?

#29 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 10:25 AM

Do you think Grud4Dos will ever use LBA48 independently?

It's not a problem with LBA48, it's a problem about a BIOS extension.
I have no idea if it will ever be added, but since we already have a working USB stack (the PLoP) which is working allright, personally I see it as a very low priority problem.

:cheers:
Wonko

#30 NetFanTom

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 11:28 AM

The problem is:

If I boot from USB, the USB drive is not the first (maybe # 81).
The first drive is the builtin harddisk # 80

Windows can not boot from a disk unlike the first.
With one exception, I start with the help of the boot sector, the bootmgr file.

In the latter case the start drive is listed as the first drive.

I recommend using bootsect.exe / nt60 for set the boot sector to start bootmgr file and integrate grub4dos into the BCD menu.


Regards :D

#31 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 12:29 PM

@netfantom
Even if the USB is mapped by BIOS as (hd1) grub4dos will boot from it and in it you can remap drives.
I never heard of "Windows can not boot form a disk unlike the first", NTLDR can boot allright from a non-first hard disk, the only exception that I know of is DOS.

:cheers:
Wonko

#32 laddanator

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:00 PM

It's not a problem with LBA48, it's a problem about a BIOS extension.
I have no idea if it will ever be added, but since we already have a working USB stack (the PLoP) which is working allright, personally I see it as a very low priority problem.

:cheers:
Wonko


The only problem and its not that a big of a problem with PLoT is most of my Keyboard and mice are USB and it doesn't work but I like the fact most older computers which use ps2 stuff, I can boot my drive and repair older stuff. I will stick with the 80 gig drives anyway to avoid any issues because I repartition my drive so the partitions didn't go passed 128 gig and still same error but on older computers with no USB support, PLoP will come in very handy. Reloaded my ladies computer with has no USB support and PLoP booted me right into my USB drive and reloaded no problem.

#33 laddanator

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:11 PM

Windows can not boot from a disk unlike the first



I post somewhat of a how to on installing Windows Vista, Win7 and 8 with no modding or need for friadisk. Pretty simple and its all booted from a non HD1 disk.

reboot.pro/14593/

Page two bottom

#34 NetFanTom

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:19 PM

Why should you change the boot order? :)

Every time go into the BIOS and set USB in the first place, when a USB drive is reconnected. That is not required. Press F12, the boot menu appears and boot USB.

Ok take an XP installation with two hard disks, change the order of the two drives and install grub4dos or an other bootmanager and try to boot ntldr from the second disk (chainloader (hd1, 0) / ntldr). :suda:

An error message would appear.

#35 NetFanTom

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:35 PM

Oh, o

rootnoverify (hd0,X)
chainloader +1


means boot from the first hdd, not true? :D

#36 NetFanTom

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 03:14 PM

recommendation:

copy grldr to folder
copy grldr.mbr to boot folder.
copy AddGrub2BCD.cmd, bootsect.exe and bcdedit.exe to boot folder.
goto boot folder
type command
bootsect /nt60 f: /force /mbr Enter (replace f: with USB drive letter)
AddGrub2BCD enter

AddGrub2BCD.cmd:

@echo off

rem === set var ===

set timeout=5

set grubdisc="Grub for DOS"

rem === try write ===

cd /d "%~dp0"

type nul > wtry.txt

If not exist wtry.txt (echo AddGrub2BCD.cmd:: Write error!!!) & (pause) & (goto :EOF)

del wtry.txt

attrib -r -h -s bcd.* /s

if exist bak_BCDBCD copy bak_BCDBCD.* /y /v > nul

if not exist bak_BCD md bak_BCD

copy BCD.* bak_BCD /y /v > nul

if "%timeout%"=="" goto M1

bcdedit /store BCD /timeout %timeout% > nul

:M1

Set guid=

for /f "tokens=2 delims={" %%i In ('bcdedit /store BCD /create /d %grubdisc% /application bootsector') Do (set guid=%%i)

for /f "tokens=1 delims=}" %%i In ("%guid%") Do (set guid={%%i})

bcdedit /store BCD /set %guid% device boot > nul

bcdedit /store BCD /set %guid% path bootgrldr.mbr > nul

bcdedit /store BCD /displayorder %guid% /addlast > nul

for %%i in (timeout grubdisc guid) Do Set %%i=


Copy the other files under your direction.

:cheers:
NetFanTom

#37 laddanator

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:49 PM

Why should you change the boot order?



I don' change the boot order to USB. I hit (for example all my Asus boards) F8 and choose my USB to boot and my grub4dos menu pops up.

I like your recommendations but when I am using the command


rootnoverify (hd0,1) means boot from first partition of disk one. Grub loads the drive as hd0,0
chainloader +1

of course I am just booting the nt60 mbr on that partition. I have load every computer in my house three time per each Windows with my method and it works great. :)

With anything I know their is 10 ways to accomplish the same goal. I just found my way easier than using Friadisk or any kinda of emulation from an iso. I am going to give your idea a try. I like experimenting with new ideas. Thanks, NetFan Tom

#38 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 04:50 PM

Every time go into the BIOS and set USB in the first place, when a USB drive is reconnected. That is not required. Press F12, the boot menu appears and boot USB.


That F12 feature is BIOS related, some have it, some don't.
Additionally AFAIK/AFAICR of those that have that Fkey feature some do change drive order and some don't.

Ok take an XP installation with two hard disks, change the order of the two drives and install grub4dos or an other bootmanager and try to boot ntldr from the second disk (chainloader (hd1, 0) / ntldr). :suda:

An error message would appear.

WHICH error message? :unsure:


I now understand what you mean. :thumbsup:

"Windows" can boot allright from non first disk.
The actual NTLDR won't when chainloaded (hence the remapping or using a NT boot floppy).

In any case, as said, if you use grub4dos the "normal" thing is to remap drives in the order they should be.
http://diddy.boot-la...les/boot.htm#nt

There are, if I remember correctly, different behaviours if you chainload:
  • the MBR of second disk ->Error loading operating system
  • the bootsector of second disk ->A disk read error occurred Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart
  • the actual NTLDR on second disk -> DIRECT REBOOT

:cheers:
Wonko

#39 laddanator

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:28 PM

I do not instal the NTLDR (nt5x) to any partition. I use the nt6x which will try to boot NTLDR if bootmgr isn't found. Of course I have to use different partitions because Vista, Win7 and Win8 have all the same name folders and as you know you cant have (example) two sources folders on same root of the drive and I could mod this but I rather have each windows (except) XP on different partitions. Keeps it neat and no modding. Only takes me less than a minute to set up the mbr on each partition with BOOTICE. Lot easier I think than trying to use friadisk or something else to "emulate" the install

#40 laddanator

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 06:09 PM

By the way, Wonko after a good nite sleep. I started up Acronis this morning because I didn't under stand why my partitions was under 128gigs and I was still getting the error. Found the issue with a rested mind. My unallocated space with no format was 256gig but right under my partition 1. I reformatted every thing back to 500 gigs and started over. Resize partition 1 to 60 gig and commit, then it wad 400 gig left so I resized that unallocated space to 15 gigs and that left 385 or so, so then I formatted another 15gig partition and the whole time it was pushing the bigger chunk left to the last part of the hard drive. Works perfect.

#41 NetFanTom

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:56 AM

rootnoverify (hd0,1) means boot from first partition of disk one. Grub loads the drive as hd0,0
chainloader +1

...means boot from second partition of disk one.

recommend

root (hd0,1)/menu.lst (or a file that in (hd0,1)/ exist)
chainloader +1

the actual NTLDR on second disk -> DIRECT REBOOT

...but IS A ERROR
OK i give up. :white_flag:

:cheers:
NetFanTom

#42 laddanator

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:52 PM

...means boot from second partition of disk one.

recommend

root (hd0,1)/menu.lst (or a file that in (hd0,1)/ exist)
chainloader +1


...but IS A ERROR
OK i give up. :white_flag:

:cheers:
NetFanTom



Never give up. Trust me when I tell you there has been times I wanted too! On my hard drive Grud4dos labels my drive like this

(hd0,0)1st Partition=Grub4Dos MBR
(hd0,1)2nd Partition=BOOTMGR Boot Record(NTLDR if bootmgr fails). If bootmgr is present, this partition will boot and load Vista
(hd0,2)3rd Partition=BOOTMGR Boot Record(NTLDR if bootmgr fails). If bootmgr is present, this partition will boot and load Win7
(hd0,3)4th Partition=BOOTMGR Boot Record(NTLDR if bootmgr fails). If bootmgr is present, this partition will boot and load Win8
(hd0,4)5th Partition=No mbr on this partition

Copy or extract all you files to each partition and bootmgr will be on the root and I put this in my menu.lst

title 02. Windows Vista SP2 Setup.nOctober 2011

password --md5 $1$A$hzYlFap3SLNNQ/tA7c3.S.

rootnoverify (hd0,1)

chainloader +1

title

root

title 03. Windows 7 SP1 AIO Setup & Vista-Win7 Repair ConsolenNovember 2011. Password Tools, Boot Fix Tools and More

password --md5 $1$A$hzYlFap3SLNNQ/tA7c3.S.

rootnoverify (hd0,2)

chainloader +1

title

root

title 04. Windows 8 Beta SetupnTesting Only

password --md5 $1$A$hzYlFap3SLNNQ/tA7c3.S.

rootnoverify (hd0,4)

chainloader +1


#43 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:01 PM

Very good you put together in a single menu EXACTLY everything that is NOT recommended IMHO for a "portable" device. :thumbup:
If the BIOS doesn't get the "right" disk order you are stuck.
The "right" way is to use a "tag" file, but, to avoid possible (even if rare) conflicts, it is to use UUID.
There is not much sense to establish a root using rootnoverify if the root can be established normally.
As well establishing a root is useful if you need to use (more than one) "relative commands".
In your setup I guess you can replace (example):
rootnoverify (hd0,4)

chainloader +1
with:
chainloader (hd0,4)+1
having the same effect. :dubbio:

:cheers:
Wonko

#44 laddanator

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:06 PM

Very good you put together in a single menu EXACTLY everything that is NOT recommended IMHO for a "portable" device. :thumbup:
If the BIOS doesn't get the "right" disk order you are stuck.
The "right" way is to use a "tag" file, but, to avoid possible (even if rare) conflicts, it is to use UUID.
There is not much sense to establish a root using rootnoverify if the root can be established normally.
As well establishing a root is useful if you need to use (more than one) "relative commands".
In your setup I guess you can replace (example):

rootnoverify (hd0,4)

chainloader +1
with:
[code=auto:0]chainloader (hd0,4)+1 [code=auto:0]
having the same effect. :dubbio:

:cheers:
Wonko


Wonko, I like the tag file idea. I am still learning all the commands for grub4dos. Are you saying if I put a tag file on another partition other than the one grub4dos is on, it will find a tag file on another partition?

So if example I put a tag file labeled Win7.tag on partition 3 and put in my menu.lst

find --set-root /Win7.tag

then I would leave out the chainloader (hd0,4)+1

and use chainloader ()+1 or :dubbio:
chainloader root +1 :dubbio:

Also I must say I have never had Grud4dos load my USB as anything but (hd0,0) but you never know.

#45 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:24 PM

Yep, that's the idea.

Though I personally like to jump over the bootsector, i.e. I do prefer to have:

title MyWin7

find --set-root /mywin7.tag

chainloader /bootmgr

over:

title MyWin7

find --set-root /mywin7.tag

chainloader+1

(this way you don't really *have* to have a bootsector invoking BOOTMGR on that partition)
As said using the UUID instead of the "tag file" is more "exact", but in "normal" use it can be overkill.

:cheers:
Wonko

#46 laddanator

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 03:35 PM

Yep, that's the idea.

Though I personally like to jump over the bootsector, i.e. I do prefer to have:


title MyWin7

find --set-root /mywin7.tag

chainloader /bootmgr



over:

title MyWin7

find --set-root /mywin7.tag

chainloader+1

(this way you don't really *have* to have a bootsector invoking BOOTMGR on that partition)
As said using the UUID instead of the "tag file" is more "exact", but in "normal" use it can be overkill.

:cheers:
Wonko



I like it when a plan come together. :) I just tried and it worked. I am like you, I don't like hard coding anything unless I have too
find --set-root /Vista.tag

chainloader ()+1


I do like your idea of this
chainloader /bootmgr
The nt60 mbr still has to be on that partition for that boormgr command to work if not you get that error



File: BootBcd

Status: 0xc000000f

Info: An error occurred while attempting to read the boot configuration data.



#47 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:09 PM

The nt60 mbr still has to be on that partition for that boormgr command to work if not you get that error


The MBR is NOT on the partition, it's on the DISK.
And the bootsector or PBR CODE should NOT be connected to it.
I presume that if you change the bootsector to "something else" you will need to update the bootBCD.

:cheers:
Wonko

#48 laddanator

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:36 PM

The MBR is NOT on the partition, it's on the DISK.
And the bootsector or PBR CODE should NOT be connected to it.
I presume that if you change the bootsector to "something else" you will need to update the \boot\BCD.

:cheers:
Wonko



I use BOOTICE and it has the option to put a mbr record on the whole disk and then to put mbr per partition.

Partition.jpg

I put grub4dos on the whole disk and partition 1 which is extra and the BOOTMGR boot record to the remaining partition. I do not add anything to bcd other than my DaRT options
Partition.jpg
partition2.jpg
Partition 3.jpg
Partition4.jpg
This is from the same drive but different partitions.

So with BOOTICE you can put boot tables or boot records on partitions also. I just extract my Windows setup files to their partition and chainload to boot from that partition.

title 02. Windows Vista SP2 Setup.\nOctober 2011

password --md5 $1$A$hzYlFap3SLNNQ/tA7c3.S.

find --set-root /Vista.tag

chainloader /bootmgr

title

root

title 03. Windows 7 SP1 AIO Setup & Vista-Win7 Repair Console\nNovember 2011. Password Tools, Boot Fix Tools and More

password --md5 $1$A$hzYlFap3SLNNQ/tA7c3.S.

find --set-root /Win7.tag

chainloader /bootmgr

title

root

title 04. Windows 8 Beta Setup\nTesting Only

password --md5 $1$A$hzYlFap3SLNNQ/tA7c3.S.

find --set-root /Win8.tag

chainloader /bootmgr

title

root


#49 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:20 PM

BootIce is a (very convenient) tool nothing more, nothing less, it is a convenient means to do something, and only that.

You insist on providing partial info, that makes no real sense without my crystal ball working.
WHAT is supposed to be your post?:
  • a report of what you do (asking for advice on how to "better" it)
  • a report of what you do (and that doesn't work)
  • a report of what you do (and that does work)
  • something else ....
:unsure:

WHY do you have additional (totally unneeded) "title" and "root" lines?
Just for the fun of it? :w00t:

:cheers:
Wonko

#50 NetFanTom

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:45 PM

OK i give up.

Of course it was a joke. I never give up - is correct.
As a general rule.
You should not ignore all recommendations.

File: BootBcd

Status: 0xc000000f


Info: An error occurred while attempting to read the boot configuration data.

This error message on a USB device caused me to develop a USBDeviceBCD script for Win7PE_SE.

http://reboot.pro/12...post__p__110752

The basic idea is to start first the BCD menu over bootsector and the bootmgr file and then start grub4dos.


If in the first primary partition (hd0,0) no bootBCD (menu) file and no bootmgr file are available, you can manually copy there.

With bootsect.exe / nt60 dr: / force / mbr - You can set the nt60 bootsector.
Only the BCD menu needs to be rebuilt.

copy grldr and grldr.mbr into the root folder - (hd0,0)/
use AddGrub2BCD.cmd version if BCD not exist:
http://netfantom.reb...AddGrub2BCD.zip

@echo off

rem === set var ===

set timeout=5

set grubdisc="Grub for DOS"

cls

echo.

echo   Please run as administrator

echo.

rem === try writing ===

cd /d "%~dp0"

type nul >wtry.txt

If not exist wtry.txt (echo AddGrub2BCD.cmd:: Write error!!!) & (pause) & (goto EOF)

del wtry.txt

If exist "BCD" goto M1

bcdedit /createstore "BCD"

bcdedit /store "BCD" /create {bootmgr} /d "Windows Boot Manager"

:M1

bcdedit /store "BCD" >BCDtemp.txt

type BCDtemp.txt | find "grldr.mbr" >nul && echo AddGrub2BCD.cmd:: && echo  BCD entry existing, no need to install. && pause && goto exit

bcdedit /store "BCD" /export "BCD_Backup" >nul

if "%timeout%"=="" goto M2

bcdedit /store "BCD" /timeout %timeout% >nul

:M2

set guid=

for /f "tokens=2 delims={" %%i In ('bcdedit /store "BCD" /create /d %grubdisc% /application bootsector') Do (set guid=%%i)

for /f "tokens=1 delims=}" %%i In ("%guid%") Do (set guid={%%i})

bcdedit /store "BCD" /set %guid% device boot >nul

bcdedit /store "BCD" /set %guid% path grldr.mbr >nul

bcdedit /store "BCD" /displayorder %guid% /addlast >nul

:exit

del BCDtemp.txt >nul



Regards,
NetFanTom




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