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Install win7 on usb/flash


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#1 bodin

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 07:43 PM

Hi all, i am new member so i am sorry if i put this thread on wrong place.

I try to install win7 on usb/flash and 10 days i cant do it. I try everything i know, and i could find on google.
I found this forum today and as i read more i know less what i want. So...

i have win7 on my lap top, i wanna install some win (whatever u suggest) on usb so i can disconnect my hdd and use system from usb.

Question:
is it better to install win7 or xp? To use fool or lite or smallest installation (i found something like that as question in some thread, i didnt even know till know that this exist)?
how to do all that?

#2 MedEvil

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:33 PM

Let's get started with a few questions, so whoever tries to help, has a clue what you wanna do.

- Are we talking about a USB-HDD or or a USB-Flash-Drive (USB-Stick)?
- Is the installed OS, just to run on that one computer or should it be used on several?
- What is the intended use of that OS? (Something specific (What?) / Everything the normal OS can do)
- How big is your USB-Device? If USB-Flash-Drive: "How fast is it?"
- How much RAM has your Notebook?


:cheers:

#3 sbaeder

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 10:03 PM

Ad if the hard drive works OK today - WHY do you want to remove it, and use a USB drive? If it is a USB HDD, then you still have the same sort of power issues of a rotating disk drive, and in both cases, USB speed will be slower than direct disk access. I guess it relates to the issue of one computer or many...and as MedEvil also pointed out the uses. Remember that full windows (for full use) is tied to the hardware and activation. A PE version isn't, but would probably be limited in what it can do.

#4 bodin

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:12 PM

Let's get started with a few questions, so whoever tries to help, has a clue what you wanna do.

- Are we talking about a USB-HDD or or a USB-Flash-Drive (USB-Stick)?


I think on USB Flash drive

Posted Image

- Is the installed OS, just to run on that one computer or should it be used on several?


I would run it only on one computer, my lap-top

- What is the intended use of that OS? (Something specific (What?) / Everything the normal OS can do)

Ad if the hard drive works OK today - WHY do you want to remove it, and use a USB drive?


This is almost same questions. Because i am not sure that my lap-top dont have mailware or trojan or something worse, and i started to use e-banking almost everyday the idea is when i wanna to pay over my account something to disconnect my lap-top hdd and use OS from flash drive. I would use it only for control my balance and pay over that account. So chrome or mozzila or opera is everthing that my OS from flash will do.


- How big is your USB-Device? If USB-Flash-Drive: "How fast is it?"


16GB, USB2.0

- How much RAM has your Notebook?


:cheers:


4GB , Dell inspiron 1750

I hope this help

Edited by bodin, 19 November 2011 - 11:13 PM.


#5 patsch

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:58 PM

This is almost same questions. Because i am not sure that my lap-top dont have mailware or trojan or something worse, and i started to use e-banking almost everyday the idea is when i wanna to pay over my account something to disconnect my lap-top hdd and use OS from flash drive. I would use it only for control my balance and pay over that account. So chrome or mozzila or opera is everthing that my OS from flash will do.

if malware is your reason I think a win7PE on a CD/DVD is the best choice because your flash drive could also be infected if you install a full functional os on a flash drive

#6 RoyM

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 12:00 AM

For your specific application: e-banking,
I would use it only for control my balance and pay over that account.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

See if this would work for you.
Lightweight Portable Security kernel 2.6.27.56 with Firefox


Website: http://spi.dod.mil/L...lic_for_DoD.htm

current version LPS-Public ISO image, version 1.3.1
http://www.spi.dod.m....3.1_public.iso


It can be run from flash drive,
You could even put the .iso on your hard drive and use grub to chainload to it.


#7 MedEvil

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 12:12 AM

If security is the reason, i would also go with some sort of read only medium. (CD / DVD / USB-Stick with write protect switch)
And since only a browser is required, i would go with a prebuild live Linux. Easy to install, no assembly required and best of all, no need to disconnect the HDD, no matter how infected it is. ;) Since Windows virii can't touch a Linux system.

:cheers:

#8 amalux

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 12:30 AM

Is this to imply the Windows virus could infect an ISO booting from USB?

#9 RoyM

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 02:49 AM

If I may respond amalux:

"I personally have never had my ISO's infected, by practicing safe ISO'ing."

1. I keep my archives in a secure place with a redundant backup.
2. Scan regularly with multiple AV's
3. Minimally connect archive machine to network.
4. I have never encountered a cross-platform virus personally, but they do exist.

*** Known Cross-Platform Virus' ***

Virus.Linux.Bi.a/Virus.Win32.Bi.a (circa 2001)
The virus doesn’t have any practical application - it’s classic Proof of Concept code,
written to show that it is possible to create a cross platform virus
The code for Bi-A is simple and its only action is to inject text strings into infected files.
Bi-A poses no immediate risk to users in its present form.
The virus does not work with latest kernel version 2.6.16

W32.Winux, The virus writer, "Benny/29A," has a web page where he documents
W32.Winux along with other viruses he's created, and shares his thoughts on the joys of writing viruses.
Interview with Benny: http://vxheavens.com/lib/iv001.html



*** More Info Virus': ***

http://antivirus.abo...y/aa032801a.htm
http://www.pandasecu...1451/W32/Winux/
W32/Winux
Threat level: Low
Alias: W32/Lindose
Type: Virus
Effects: It carries out damaging actions on the affected computer.
It captures certain information entered or saved by the user, with the corresponding threat to privacy.
It causes the loss of information stored on the computer, either specific files or data in general.
It affects the productivity of the computer, the network to which it’s connected or other remote sites.
It carries out actions that decrease the security level of the computer.
It does not spread automatically using its own means.
Affected platforms: Windows 2003/XP/2000/NT/ME/98/95
Detection updated on: Dec. 10, 2002
Brief Description: W32/Winux has the following characteristics:
It affects Linux, Windows 9.x/ME, Windows NT/2000/XP systems.
It is 2132 Bytes in size.

sadmin worm. It was cross platform between Solaris and Windows
http://www.cert.org/...CA-2001-11.html

Koobface worm infects Windows, but targets Mac OS X and Linux

http://www.virusexpe...facebook-users/

Simile.D the fourth variant on the Simile virus
http://itmanagement....ndows-Linux.htm

*** How to infect ISO ***

an ISO is a disc image - it could potentially contain files which could be viruses.
Identical to how a ZIP file (or any other archive file format) could contain an infected file.
but this would require the virus to contain the software necessary to edit the ISO.
because ISO files store information "as is", not compressed or encrypted form,
you just scan an ISO file for well-known sequences of data, that indicate the
start of executable section in an exe file for example, and overwrite it with your data
Although not a common technique, viruses can attack image file formats
such as the ISO 9660, which defines a standard file system.

ISO images often have an AUTORUN.INF file on them to automatically launch an
executable when the CD-ROM is used on Windows, Viruses can take advantage
of this file within the image and modify it to run an infected exe.
This technique was developed by the Russian virus writer, Zombie, in early 2002.
http://books.google....ing iso&f=false

#10 amalux

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 04:59 AM

So this virus would ostensibly run from the offline system your booting from ISO to fix; it would run a batch to find, edit and repack the ISO you're booting from so that the next time you booted from that ISO it could infect the offline system your working on?

#11 RoyM

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:38 AM

I certainly would like to meet the guru that COULD code that.

obviously no, it could only run from his infected online OS
and then edit/infect an offline ISO that it has access to.
For instance if ISO was on same HD or a plugged in USB.

But you gave me a good laugh imagining your scenario.

Also if you'll notice the cross-platform virus' listed, are all categorized as mild infections.
Even still, I will always exercise an ounce of prevention with my critical systems.
No cooties for me please.

#12 MedEvil

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 03:59 PM

Is this to imply the Windows virus could infect an ISO booting from USB?

- Unless the USB-Device has a write protect switch, the iso file can get infected / damaged.
- If the OS uses a writable image in RAM, eighter by FBWF or natively, the OS can get infected.
- Read only images in RAM could get infected as well, however for that we would need a virus that specificly targets one of our PE1, since this contellation does not exist anywhere else.


:cheers:

#13 amalux

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 04:48 PM

- Unless the USB-Device has a write protect switch, the iso file can get infected / damaged.

Too vague, how does it get infected? Every instance (extremely rare) of an ISO being infected that I've read about (including ones cited by RoyM) have occurred at ISO creation from an infected machine. This makes sense to me but the scenario I've outlined (please confirm it accurately describes your concerns) seems to fall into the category of the theoretical. If there is an instance of an ISO being infected while booting from itself from an infected offline system, please give details so we can know how to protect ourselves.

- If the OS uses a writable image in RAM, eighter by FBWF or natively, the OS can get infected.

How? I thought you couldn't retain a viable virus in RAM through reboot, has this changed?

- Read only images in RAM could get infected as well, however for that we would need a virus that specificly targets one of our PE1, since this contellation does not exist anywhere else.

Need details how this could occur; if it's possible it's a serious security concern but just saying it's possible doesn't make it so.

#14 bodin

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 04:55 PM

I will try ubuntu, i hope i know how to install it (i have somewhere on my hdd iso file downloaded), i downloaded lps public.iso also. So i will try it if i cant install ubuntu. Tnx everyone

#15 MedEvil

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 07:21 PM

Amalux do you understand the concept of security?
It means to prevent things from happening, not saying afterwards: "Oh that was new, we didn't prepare for that."

Too vague, how does it get infected? Every instance (extremely rare) of an ISO being infected that I've read about (including ones cited by RoyM) have occurred at ISO creation from an infected machine.

An iso is a file - virii can infect / destoy files - ergo virii can infect / destroy iso on rw medium.

seems to fall into the category of the theoretical.

Everything is theoretical till it happens the first time. Would it comfort you, to know, that you're the first one, if your bank account gets drained or would you be furous, that nobody did anything, though the risk was known?

If there is an instance of an ISO being infected while booting from itself from an infected offline system, please give details so we can know how to protect ourselves.

Ever heared about BIOS virii? Ok, they are pretty seldom these days, but they are doable and existed at one time.
Besides that, executing a single infected file from the infected system is enough, to let the virii run wild on all writable media.
Or how about simply mounting a partition, i'm sure that could be used to kick of a virus.

You're playing on the fact, that noone has yet created a virus, that targets specificly computer technicians. But just because it doesn't exist today, doesn't mean it won't tomorrow.

How? I thought you couldn't retain a viable virus in RAM through reboot, has this changed?

And how about inbetween reboots?
He asked for a system, that is secure while being used not be clean after each reboot and infected during use!

Need details how this could occur; if it's possible it's a serious security concern but just saying it's possible doesn't make it so.

RAM is writable, hence i or a virus can change its content - ergo not safe!
But as i said, ISO in RAM without FBWF, that was only ever done on Boot-Land and isn't done anymore today. So the virus developer has a very, very small target group. Probably too small for the virus to even survive in the wild.

BUT....
if i knew, Amalux would fix a specific computer with a PE and i would really wanna stick it to him, i might invest the time, to put just the right virus into place. ;)

:cheers:
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#16 MedEvil

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 07:25 PM

I will try ubuntu, i hope i know how to install it (i have somewhere on my hdd iso file downloaded), i downloaded lps public.iso also. So i will try it if i cant install ubuntu. Tnx everyone

You can do whatever you want, but noone suggested to install a Linux. We suggested to use a live system directly. In my case, even from a read only medium like a CD or DVD.

:cheers:

#17 bodin

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 09:25 PM

You can do whatever you want, but noone suggested to install a Linux. We suggested to use a live system directly. In my case, even from a read only medium like a CD or DVD.

:cheers:


How to find and how to know that i found live linux? :D

is lps public.iso live linux? xD

#18 MedEvil

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:26 PM

How to find and how to know that i found live linux?

It is always clearly stated if it is a LiveCD or just an InstallCD.
When in doubt run the CD on your computer or the iso file in your Virtual Machine. If you get to the desktop without being asked where to install to, you have a LiveCD.

is lps public.iso live linux?

Yes. http://www.spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm

I like SLAX, Knoppix and Kanotix. The later two show off finest german engineering. No Ubuntu flavored, live system, comes even close to them.


:cheers:

#19 RoyM

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 11:36 PM

I fixed link in post #6 above for Website, should be:
http://spi.dod.mil/L...lic_for_DoD.htm

Also see here:
LPS-Public webpage:
http://spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm

There is also this download: "Have not tried this one yet."
LPS-Public Deluxe ISO image, version 1.3.1 (11 November 2011).
This version is the same as the LPS-Public edition,
but also includes OpenOffice and Adobe Reader software
http://spi.dod.mil/d...blic_deluxe.iso

@bodin, LPS is not meant to be installed, website does not say Live linux,
but I have used this software, and it's quite nice.
you can run from usb or run from an ISO on hard drive booted from grub.
This software is as it's name implies, Security.

You can use something like this to start an ISO from grub: "UNTESTED"
Or it can be ran from USB or CD.
title Lightweight Portable Security kernel 2.6.27.56
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /iso/LPS-1.2.2_public.iso
map /iso/LPS-1.2.2_public.iso (hd32)
map --hook
root (hd32)
kernel /vmlinuz loadramdisk=1 initrd=initrd ramdisk_blocksize=4096 root=/dev/ram0 ramdisk_size=524288 vga=791 console=ttyS3
chainloader (hd32)

@MedEvil
Quote:
Ever heared about BIOS virii?

Reply:
Yes Sir, I have first hand experience, "VERY NASTY"
let's sum it up by saying, Time to buy a new motherboard.
And because of virus' just like this, is why I keep my security tight.
current prices to replace my current motherboards,
are well over $600 last time I checked. (Motherboard Only).

@amalux
Quote:
Too vague, how does it get infected? Every instance (extremely rare) of an ISO being infected that I've read about
(including ones cited by RoyM) have occurred at ISO creation from an infected machine.
This makes sense to me but the scenario I've outlined (please confirm it accurately describes your concerns)
seems to fall into the category of the theoretical.

Reply
Yes, I would have to agree that it is rather theoretical, and I have not personally encountered one that
behaves as stated above, and as for Mr. bodin's application of e-banking, he's probably pretty safe running
from an .ISO from HD. "IF" he wants the added security, then run it from USB/CD.

Please see above where Mr. Bodin states
"Because i am not sure that my lap-top dont have mailware or trojan or something worse,
and i started to use e-banking almost everyday "
"Hopefully there's also no keyloggers or something else to violate his security,
I would hate to see his e-banking get compromised."

As Mr. MedEvil mentioned above, "it's all about security",
Personally, I am under contract and "can not/will not" jeopardize the resources at my disposal.

I certainly don't want to be known as the guy that leaked secure information
or lost millions because he neglected to properly secure his systems or network.

Do not underestimate the talent pool available for writing virus'.

FYI, the steam network was just recently hacked, and steam released a statement to it's users that
steam accounts, to include passwords, personal sensitive information, as well as bank account
information may have been compromised and that steam users should immediately change their passwords
and that we should pay close attention to our bank accounts.

I'd hate to be that IT guy.

#20 amalux

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:33 AM

Yes, I would have to agree that it is rather theoretical, and I have not personally encountered one that
behaves as stated above, and as for Mr. bodin's application of e-banking, he's probably pretty safe running
from an .ISO from HD. "IF" he wants the added security, then run it from USB/CD.

My feeling exactly and since nothing more than fear mongering has been offered to substantiate the purported threat, I won't spend time pursuing a counter measure (for now) ;)

#21 TheGnome

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:55 AM

@bodin

The german magazine c't Computertechnik has prepared a system called c't Bankix that does exactly what you are looking for (I think). It is based on Ubuntu 10.4.

It is intended to be installed on a write protectable medium like a cdrom or a flash drive with a writeprotect switch. A SD card in a cardreader works fine also. Additionally you need a flash drive for the home directory to be able to save your preferences and maybe some other data.

An article (in german only, sorry) describing it and an ISO file can be downloaded here: http://www.heise.de/...kix-284099.html

You will also need UNetbootin.exe to install it on a flash drive if you're doing this on a Windows system.

As an additional bonus its kernel is modified so the internal hard disks can not be accessed which blocks another path for malware to invade your system.

#22 MedEvil

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:18 PM

For all those, who believe a iso on a rw medium is safe.

A little proof of concept, you can do yourself.

Get yourself a Win7 iso, except for Enterprise. Language or service pack doesn't matter.
Open the iso and look for sources\ei.cfg

Get eicfg_removal_utility.zip from here: http://code.kliu.org/misc/winisoutils/

Run the tool on the iso and check again for the file.

Run the tool again and check the file a third time.


:cheers:

#23 amalux

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 04:36 PM

OK, now I'm scared :lol:

Seriously, you made your point well, unfortunately for you (for all of us); since this works on the UDF, it also applies to RO media like CD-R :whistling:

What a sick world, is nothing sacred? Now I have to look into ways to block UDF access, that assumes it's possible to actually inject virus code into UDF, something I seriously doubt but still, something to think about.

:cheers:

#24 MedEvil

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 05:25 PM

Seriously, you made your point well, unfortunately for you (for all of us); since this works on the UDF, it also applies to RO media like CD-R :whistling:'

Interesting idea.
Could a virus be designed in such a way, that it can be installed into an already burned CD-R, by means of a CD-Burner?


:cheers:

PS: Amendment to 'secure computing'. Run LiveOS on CDVD-R only from player and not from writer! ;)

#25 bodin

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:40 AM

MedEvil i hate u know xD...whatever i was thinking that i know about security now i see that i dont know anything...this with CDrw is amazing...