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Boot to the CD for repair install of one of the dual boot OS

xp win7 repair install for xp

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#1 z101891

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:17 AM

I have a great laptop, I have 3 hard drives. One drive contains Win7 Ultimate, another drive contains XP Pro, and the third drive is just for data. To select the operating system I wish to boot into, I change the BIOS to AHCI for Win 7 or to RAID for XP.
How can I boot my XP Pro CD and do a repair install of XP?

#2 sbaeder

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 01:28 AM

Have you tried setting it to "RAID"...BUT changing the boot order to go to a CD first? Maybe that is too obvious? (or to hit whatever key is enabled to let you dynamically select the boot media).

#3 z101891

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 12:15 AM

UPDATE
After I have selected either AHCI or RAID in my BIOS, the computer boots into the normal Windows 7 Boot Loader wher I select either Windows 7 or Windows XP.
If I boot from my XP Pro CD I never get to select an operating system, no matter what is selected in the BIOS.

#4 sbaeder

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 07:28 PM

Ahhh...this is a bit different than what I expected from the first post...Not at all sure why the AHCI or RAID is making a difference - other than how it is mapping the drives - i.e. which one is drive 0,1,2, etc. And that maybe you don't have an AHCI/Raid driver for XP???

You probably need to add an F6 driver so that the CD can "see" the drives...Do you have the RAID driver as a "floppy" image so you can add the drivers? Look around here and the web in general for how to do this.

Scott

#5 z101891

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:35 PM

Scott,
I don't use any special raid drivers for normal use, In my BIOS, all three drives are identified just alike on the boot order screen. I have booted to a CD by changing the bot order.
I selected RAID in BIOS once, planning to boot into XP. I forgot to select XP in the selection window before it timed out. The next thing I knew, Windows 7 was correcting things so it could boot. Regardless of the selection in BIOS,Windows 7 is the default and it will try and load (based on the selection in the windows boot loader.
What would a RAID driver do for my XP operating system disk? Device Manager shows all 3 hard disks as IDE, IDEDISKST9750420AS_____________________________0001SDM54&1D508D2F&0&0.0.0
IDEDISKST9750420AS_____________________________0001SDM54&1D508D2F&0&0.1.0
IDEDISKST9750420AS_____________________________0001SDM54&1D508D2F&0&0.2.0
Do you still think I need a RAID driver?

#6 sbaeder

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 05:43 PM

Sounds like the setting to "raid" in BIOS is misleading... So, to be clear, you are NOT using any sort of a RAID configuration - Right?

Why are you trying to "repair" XP? is it just so you can "select the OS" at boot? (i.e. Using a setting like RAID/AHCI is probably NOT a good way to select which OS boots ! )

You said - Laptop...Right? With three drives? Is that three PHYSICAL drives or three partitions that show up as three "drive letters"? Since you say that they show up in the BIOS, I am assuming that it is actually three separate drives. How are they connected? If it is a laptop, it must have some sort of external drive - right?

The way booting occurs is pretty simple - (and just to be clear, you are using the windows 7 bootmgr - which uses the BCD - right? ) In simplified terms, the BIOS loads in the loader off the MBR of the drive you select. That simple loader then runs the bootmanager which reads the BCD and that then boots the OS selected. If you were using something like GRUB, the simple MBR loader would run GRUB, which uses the menu.lst to allow you to select an OS...

So, what is the real issue? do you really need to repair XP, or just be able to boot into it?

What happens during the "repair" process. You boot off the XP CD - right, and it goes into the installation. Since you don't want the "recovery console", you hit "enter" to go into the setup - Right? Then hit F8 to accept the license, and then it looks at the disks to find the existing XP installation. Is this where you do NOT see your existing XP? If so, then the default XP CD doesn't see the disks...

You could try booting again, and go into the recovery console - or use some sort of a PE based environment to debug why the basic CD isn't seeing the drive

You could try disconnecting all but the XP "drive" (assuming it is really a separate DRIVE)...If it is just a partition, you might try using a tool like PMagic or other partition tool to "hide" all the other partitions...

Other than that - I'm not sure what else to tell you...But maybe this will spark something else you can tell me about your environment.

Scott

#7 sbaeder

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 05:46 PM

One other thought...if it is really using the BCD in WIn7 to manage the booting, you should be able to use a tool like EasyBCD or even the tools in the Control panel (system -> advanced system settings -> startup and recovery) to modify the default or change other options.

#8 z101891

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 10:23 PM

1-So, to be clear, you are1- NOT using any sort of a RAID configuration - Right?

I am not using any sort of RAID configuration.

2-Why are you trying to "repair" XP? is it just so you can "select the OS" at boot? (i.e. Using a setting like RAID/AHCI is probably NOT a good way to select which OS boots ! )

I loaded some software, from Motorola I believe, that caused a BSOD on the XP drive. It will not boot to the XP drive.

3-What happens during the "repair" process. You boot off the XP CD - right, and it goes into the installation. Since you don't want the "recovery console", you hit "enter" to go into the setup - Right? Then hit F8 to accept the license, and then it looks at the disks to find the existing XP installation. Is this where you do NOT see your existing XP? If so, then the default XP CD doesn't see the disks...

I did that and it messed up my Windows 7 bootability. I was unable to boot it or my XP operating system .

4-You could try booting again, and go into the recovery console - or use some sort of a PE based environment to debug why the basic CD isn't seeing the drive

I tried the MSDaRT 5.0 but I could not get it to boot with that CD.

5-You could try disconnecting all but the XP "drive" (assuming it is really a separate DRIVE)...If it is just a partition, you might try using a tool like PMagic or other partition tool to "hide" all the other partitions...

I physically have 3 separate drives inside the laptop. I prefer not to go inside the machine.


Can I use the Windows 7 operating system to repair my XP?
Can I use EasyBCD to make the Windows 7 system unavailable, boot to the XP Pro installation CD, and do the standard XP repair things?
Does EasyBCD have to replace my Windows 7 Boot Manager?
I appreciate your ideas.
Is there a way to have a CD as a boot option in EasyBCD or the normal Windows 7 boot manager? Maybe a boot manager on CD type setup.

#9 RoyM

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 10:56 PM

How about posting your boot menu, that may give us more insight into your settings.
If using grub, post your menu.lst.
If using other bootmanager, post it, (i.e) boot.ini, etc.

#10 z101891

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 12:27 AM

I found the program EasyBCD 2.0 on my Windows 7 hard drive. Below is a copy of what it has:

There are a total of 2 entries listed in the bootloader.
Default: Windows 7 (requires AHCI mode in BIOS)
Timeout: 30 seconds
Boot Drive: D:
Entry #1
Name: Windows 7 (requires AHCI mode in BIOS)
BCD ID: {current}
Drive: C:
Bootloader Path: Windowssystem32winload.exe
Entry #2
Name: Windows XP (requires RAID mode in BIOS)
BCD ID: {ntldr}
Drive: D:
Bootloader Path: ntldr



My boot.ini is as follows:
;
;Warning: Boot.ini is used on Windows XP and earlier operating systems.
;Warning: Use BCDEDIT.exe to modify Windows Vista boot options.
;
[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT


This boot.ini is on my hard drive containing XP Pro.

#11 sbaeder

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 08:52 PM

OK - it is a bit unusual to have multiple drives inside a laptop - that's why I asked. And yes, doing a full "repair" of the XP would cause issues for the Win7...Basically, your laptop is really booting off of a SINGLE drive's MBR...i.e. in the BIOS, you probably never really change the boot order or are using the capability that some BIOS provide to select the boot drive using a function key.

So, the BIOS is booting a single disk MBR, and that is loading the "bootmanager" (by default), and that is using the BCD files, etc. and that is then booting into the OS you select. Unfortunately, the drive that is by "default" loading is the XP drive (called "D"), and the Windows one is the "C" drive.

Probably a bit confused by all the "raid" vs. AHCI stuff. Again, this is probably because of things like SATA interconnect, and presenting either an older "raid" (or IDE like) interface to the XP system - AFAIK, there are no AHCI drivers built into XP, since it is newer standard - this is where you would have to provide an "F6" disk when booting XP so that it sees the disks.

Now, MAYBE if you do this, XP would see the drives in the same configuration - i.e. Drive#0 (or "C:" drive) where Win7 is installed, and Drive#1 where XP is installed. Then you could do the repair of XP.

Another thought is that sometimes, in the BIOS, you can "disable" a drive...then you wouldn't have to open up and physically disconnect, etc.

A final thought is to do the repair on the XP installation - and yes, this would screw up the bootmanager into Win7, since the MBR would now say to use the NTLDR to load XP and as pointed out above, would go to the boot.ini, etc.

THEN, boot off the windows 7 disk, and see if a repair of the booting would fix it so it boot back into Win7...that would change the disks MBR back to BOOTMGR, and it would use the BCD file, and if you need to use the easyBCD to re-create the chain over to /ntldr (as it is shown above), that could correct it all...

Yes, it's complex! Basically you are going to "fix" XP first (which resets the drive used by BIOS), and then reset that drive's MBR (can also be done off command prompt that you can get to when booting the Win7 DVD - See this link) back so it uses the Win7 loader, which has an entry to go to the ntldr.

But ask more if that's not clear.

#12 z101891

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:20 AM

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Unfortunately, the drive that is by "default" loading is the XP drive (called "D"), and the Windows one is the "C" drive.
How do you know that the default drive loading is XP? What leads you to this conclusion? What I pasted in my post was an EasyBCD from my Win7 drive. I also posted the boot.ini found on my XP drive.

provide an "F6" disk when booting XP so that it sees the disks.
Got any idea the where-a-bouts of such an animal that would suit my need?

in the BIOS, you can "disable" a drive...
I would like to do this, but all 3 of the drives are identified in the BIOS identically. Like this:
PCI_SCSI: P0-ST9750420AS
PCI_SCSI: P1-ST9750420AS
PCI_SCSI: P2-ST9750420AS
I don’t know which drive contains which operating system or which one of the drives is my data drive.
Would anything bad occur if I remove one of them, set the BIOS to boot from Windows 7, and see if it boots. Then remove another until it does not boot? Would the P0, P1, P2 parts change? In other words, is the boot disk always P0? Can I use the P0, P1, P2 as indicators of what each drive contains because it will never change regardless of what is selected for “SATA Mode Selection:”? ( This is where I make the change to RAID or AHCI).
So, let me make sure I understand.
  • Set my BIOS to boot to XP (SATA Mode Selection: RAID)
  • Set my BIOS to boot from CD at the top of the list.
  • Boot with the XP Pro installation CD.
  • Do the F6 dance to install an AHCI driver (which I don’t have)
  • Complete the Repair of my XP operating system.
  • Set my BIOS to boot to Win 7 (SATA Mode Selection: AHCI)
  • Boot with the Win 7 installation CD.
  • Complete the Repair of my Win7 operating system.
  • Put back my working (existing) EasyBCD 2.0 file.
  • That is all.

and then reset that drive's MBR (can also be done off command prompt that you can get to when booting the Win7 DVD - See this link)
I am not sure how to do this. Can I copy the working XP drive MBR then put it back? Do I do this as step 5a? I have not looked at the link yet.
By the way, I asked about 6 companies to provide me a laptop with my 2, separate operating systems, which I provided. Only 1 agreed to do it for me. They did what I wanted. I just got the machine back from them after they fixed the problem I caused by trying to do the XP repair install. I will probably mess it up again.

#13 sbaeder

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:13 PM

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&\
Unfortunately, the drive that is by "default" loading is the XP drive (called "D"), and the Windows one is the "C" drive.
How do you know that the default drive loading is XP? What leads you to this conclusion? What I pasted in my post was an EasyBCD from my Win7 drive. I also posted the boot.ini found on my XP drive.

I am guessing this is the case based on the information in the BCD output you had above...Default is stated to be "D" and that is also where it tries to load the ntldr...

[font=courier new,courier,monospace][size=4]There are a total of 2 entries listed in the bootloader.

Default: Windows 7 (requires AHCI mode in BIOS)

Timeout: 30 seconds

Boot Drive: D:\													  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Default where the MBR being used to boot

Entry #1

Name: Windows 7 (requires AHCI mode in BIOS)

BCD ID: {current}

Drive: C:\														   <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Drive that has windows 7

Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe[/size][/font]

[font=courier new,courier,monospace][size=4]Entry #2

Name: Windows XP (requires RAID mode in BIOS)

BCD ID: {ntldr}

Drive: D:\

Bootloader Path: \ntldr[/size][/font]

So, if you get the windows 7 menu (Allowing you to boot into either XP or Win7, it must be from the small partition used to hold the boot manager of windows 7.

[size=4]multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT[/size]

This line shows that the XP is on the first disk drive (disk=0), BUT on the second partition!!!

provide an "F6" disk when booting XP so that it sees the disks.
Got any idea the where-a-bouts of such an animal that would suit my need?

No, but if you know the interface and driver on win7, you might be able to use that and the laptop mfg's site to find out which driver it needs...but this can be a bit of work, and they may not even have an ahci driver for XP...Start by looking at the hardware when in WIn7. Try to identify it, and then use that to track back to see if there is an XP driver for that hardware so that you can just leave the PC in AHCI mode all the time. But, again, this may be more work than it is worth.

in the BIOS, you can "disable" a drive...
I would like to do this, but all 3 of the drives are identified in the BIOS identically. Like this:
PCI_SCSI: P0-ST9750420AS
PCI_SCSI: P1-ST9750420AS
PCI_SCSI: P2-ST9750420AS
I don’t know which drive contains which operating system or which one of the drives is my data drive.
Would anything bad occur if I remove one of them, set the BIOS to boot from Windows 7, and see if it boots. Then remove another until it does not boot? Would the P0, P1, P2 parts change? In other words, is the boot disk always P0? Can I use the P0, P1, P2 as indicators of what each drive contains because it will never change regardless of what is selected for “SATA Mode Selection:”? ( This is where I make the change to RAID or AHCI).

Well, the p0/p1/p2 correspond to the three drives and PROBABLY they stay the same inside the OS...But wether they stay the same in the OS depends on the BIOS, and may be a part of why your having the issues. If you have a stand-alone PE (even using something like PMagic), one good test would be boot off of it with the disks disabled, and then enable them one by one to see which is which and if the drive numbers change

So, let me make sure I understand.

  • Set my BIOS to boot to XP (SATA Mode Selection: RAID)
  • Set my BIOS to boot from CD at the top of the list.
  • Boot with the XP Pro installation CD.
  • Do the F6 dance to install an AHCI driver (which I don’t have)
  • Complete the Repair of my XP operating system.
  • Set my BIOS to boot to Win 7 (SATA Mode Selection: AHCI)
  • Boot with the Win 7 installation CD.
  • Complete the Repair of my Win7 operating system.
  • Put back my working (existing) EasyBCD 2.0 file.
  • That is all.

Close, but not exactly...Normally, you NEVER changed the disk boot order - right? Do you even have the ability to switch P0/P1/P2 order for booting. Some BIOS allow you to set HD boot order, others only allow you to select CD/HD/USB/Floppy as a category, and not individual device if there is more than one.

So, can you set a specific hard disk device as the BOOT drive? If so, how is it set? What we would like to see (I think) is that it is booting off of the 1st hard disk (P0), and that is where XP is loaded - but in the second partition. If that is the case, you should be able to do the repair - NOT do any F6 dance, and end up with a system that boots directly into XP...i.e. the XP "repair" replaces the MBR to boot directly into NTLDR, which uses the Boot.ini to boot into XP.

To fix it so it boots into Win7, then insert the win7 disk - LEAVE AS RAID - and boot into Win7 install, but use the Win7 repair to replace the default MBR that goes to ntldr with one that goes to the Bootmgr.

and then reset that drive's MBR (can also be done off command prompt that you can get to when booting the Win7 DVD - See this link)
I am not sure how to do this. Can I copy the working XP drive MBR then put it back? Do I do this as step 5a? I have not looked at the link yet.
By the way, I asked about 6 companies to provide me a laptop with my 2, separate operating systems, which I provided. Only 1 agreed to do it for me. They did what I wanted. I just got the machine back from them after they fixed the problem I caused by trying to do the XP repair install. I will probably mess it up again.

The repair of win7 should do this for you - i.e. fix the MBR and also fix the BCD file...you might need to use easyBCD to make some small edits, but basically the Win7 repair will make it boot back into windows, and then if you need to, edit the BCD to chain the the ntldr on the right drive.


I know this is complicated to try to explain, but what you want to have happen is...

Do XP repair...

BIOS --- Boots to the CD

CD finds existing XP on partition 1 of the First disk (P0).  Repairs it, and resets MBR to boot the NTLDR.

At this point, you can ONLY boot into XP. Now, do repair of Win7

Bios -- Boots to CD

CD finds XP on first disk and Win7 on second disk.  Resets MBR to boot into Bootmgr.

Now, remove CD, so it first boots to Hard drive P0, with MBR that loads the BCD file, gives you two choices, and either chains to the winload to finish Win7 - OR - goes to a different disk to load ntldr
If it didn't do that automatically during the repair, use EasyBCD to edit the BCD so that it does this!

Hopefully it works out and lets you fix this if it ever happens again...It may mean that win7 is still using "RAID" (or old fashion IDE) access instead of AHCI, but I don't think that should be an issue...

Scott





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