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Windows8 and VirtualPC


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#51 sambul61

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:56 PM

Win7 and 8 installation is done by "applying" install.wim to a target drive (see ImageX MS description of what it does), and then adding boot environment to the drive by the above commands. You can also make the VHD smaller and bootable from USB without OS installed on your USB stick.

#52 cdob

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:26 AM

I think, i may miss the point.
Won't Win8 run setup on first run?

Well, Vista and up is not XP. Installation is very different.
There is no classic setup anymore.

There is a universal disk image at Vista, named install.wim.
This image is extracted to hard disk.
Machine reboots and installation contiunes.
That's setup today.

Imagex just copies the files , it doesn't set Win8 up, doesn't it?

It dosn't have to set Win8 up.
Neither does booting from a DVD and install Win8. A booted DVD does extract install.wim, there is no Win8 up.

Could Win8 be directly installed to a 8GB USB Stick or just by imagex?

What's directly?
Burning a real DVD, booting a real DVD and installing are much more steps.
No idea, if this is supported nowadays.

What's a DVD anyway ;)

#53 sambul61

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:43 PM

MedEvil

Btw, if you apply any windows.wim to the wrong folder with ImageX, it might be hard to delete the files afterwards. Use Win7PE for that, it seems to bypass all NTFS Permissions - just start Notepad - File Open to get to GUI from Command Prompt, then delete the files easily.

Anyone can explain, why Win7PE.wim after being applied to a VHD doesn't boot, unless it's applied as part of Boot.wim? Would be nice to have a very small Win7PE.vhd though, similar to Win7PE.iso in size. Anything can be done about shrinking Win7PE.vhd? :)

#54 MedEvil

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 01:35 PM

@cdob
My question regarding the setup, was directed at the fact, that at some point Windows will install / overwrite the bootmanager. Will this step be skipped, if i use the imagex methode or not?

:cheers:

#55 cdob

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 02:56 PM

at some point Windows will install / overwrite the bootmanager. Will this step be skipped, if i use the imagex methode or not?

Yes and no. Which bootmanager do you refer to?

Imagex extract files from a archiv; a file \bootmgr may be overwritten.
This can be your bootmanager or not.

Beside imagex there is used bcdboot.exe http://technet.micro...347(WS.10).aspx
bcdboot.exe overwrites the bootmanger.

#56 cdob

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:00 AM

The best i could do is, empty a USB-Stick, but non has the 16GB min. size, required for Win8 install.

Which USB-Stick can you provide?

#57 MedEvil

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:58 PM

One of those pseudo 8GB ones.

:cheers:

#58 cdob

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:45 PM

One of those pseudo 8GB ones.

Windows 8 does fit at this 8GB Stick.

How much RAM do you use?
hybrid-boot creates file hiberfile.sys
http://www.msfn.org/...w-does-it-work/

If addional space is required, disable hibernate:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power]
"HibernateEnabled"=dword:00000000

If need be, a 4GB Stick is sufficient: use NTFS compression and hard links
A 2GB Stick is possible at deleting files.

#59 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 06:07 PM

Just don't forget that Bootmanager and some other critical files can't be compressed, but NTFS seems to compress everything if you select that option in Disk Properties. Also:

"NTFS compression might cause performance degradation because a compressed NTFS file is decompressed, copied, and then recompressed as a new file, even when copied inside the same computer. Similarly, on network transfers, the file is decompressed, which affects bandwidth as well as speed."

Especially worysome for a USB Stick performance. :)

#60 MedEvil

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 07:56 PM

"NTFS compression might cause performance degradation because a compressed NTFS file is decompressed, copied, and then recompressed as a new file, even when copied inside the same computer. Similarly, on network transfers, the file is decompressed, which affects bandwidth as well as speed."

Especially worysome for a USB Stick performance. :)


I think it works the other way around. Since compressing and uncompressing is done in RAM, its affect is the bigger the faster the default transfer rate is.
A slow USB stick would imo suffer less performance wise, than a SATA RAID.

A slow USB-Stick could even be faster with compression than without.

:cheers:

#61 joakim

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 09:36 PM

Just don't forget that Bootmanager and some other critical files can't be compressed, but NTFS seems to compress everything if you select that option in Disk Properties.

Not that it really matters in this thread, but the statement is not entirely correct. I just booted one of my vm's with a compressed bootmgr. But it may be that other things don't work properly if compressed though..

#62 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:04 PM

"A popular hammer company received a call from a customer complaining “It sure hurts when I hit my thumb with your hammers!” Likewise, if you compress .VHD files, it is going to be a painful experience, so please compress responsibly." :)

#63 cdob

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 04:39 PM

Likewise, if you compress .VHD files, it is going to be a painful experience, so please compress responsibly."

Manufacturer clarifies compressed VHD files.
http://technet.micro...865(WS.10).aspx

You cannot attach a VHD that has been compressed by NTFS or encrypted using Encrypting File System on the host volume.
However, you can compress or encrypt the volumes inside the VHD if compression and encryption are otherwise supported.

NTFS compression is a nice work arround at a small drive, e.g. Win8 flat files at a 4GB stick.
Yes, use compression with care in general.

#64 MedEvil

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 05:35 PM

NTFS compression is a nice work arround at a small drive, e.g. Win8 flat files at a 4GB stick.

Do we have any real numbers? A 4GB Stick has after all only 3.60GB capacity.

:cheers:

#65 cdob

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:28 PM

Do we have any real numbers? A 4GB Stick has after all only 3.60GB capacity.

Or may store more data: e.g. 3.76GB

Windows 8 Developer Preview
http://msdn.microsof...s/apps/br229516
WindowsDeveloperPreview-32bit-English.iso

imagex.exe /apply I:\sources\install.wim 1 G:\

bcdboot.exe G:\windows /s G: /v
5.54 GB data stored.

subinacl.exe /subdirectories G:\* /grant=%username%=f

finddupe.exe -hardlink G:\
4.77 GB data stored.

compact.exe /c /s /a /i g:\*

compact.exe /u g:\bootmgr

3.42 GB data stored.

At second glance: compact /f may be a strange idea at hard linked files.
@all: feel free to test yourself

#66 MedEvil

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:14 PM

Or may store more data: e.g. 3.76GB

You're one lucky guy! Which manufacturer puts more in, than he advertises?

:cheers:

#67 cdob

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:50 PM

You're one lucky guy! Which manufacturer puts more in, than he advertises?

It's a 4GB SanDisk SD / USB Card.
Picture reminds this 8GB version http://shop.sandisk....uctID.105429000

#68 MedEvil

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:12 PM

I wish, i would understand manufacturers. 15MB/s write speed would be class 15 not class 4.

Had a look at my SanDisk USB-Stick and it is also slightly bigger than advertised, but not enough to show up in GB value with just two digits after the dot. ;)

From all the USB-Sticks i have, had or just had a look at, SanDisk seems to be the best manufacturer.
No silent changes like Leaxar likes to do. No sudden unexplainable jumps in write or read speed between two sticks of the same kind. No adversing of speeds the stick can't deliver. And now no undersizing of the USB-Sticks.


:cheers:

#69 sambul61

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:03 AM

Here is an interesting document that says "USB min capacity 8 Gb": :)

Deploying Microsoft Hyper-V Server 2008 R2 on USB Flash Drive


AND, this doc says "Virtual hard disks cannot be stored in a folder that uses NTFS compression" - seems to degrade Hyper-V performance causing customer complains: :bye:

Create Virtual Hard Disks




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