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microSD changable


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#1 Kira!

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 07:30 PM

Ability to change microSD memory in this device. :)

#2 elegantinvention

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 04:08 AM

Definitely! I plan for the retail version to have removable microSD if at all possible! :victory:

#3 steve6375

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 10:07 AM

Why not make it an SD card slot which will take a micro-SD adaptor. Advantages are:
1. Users can use either SD or micro SD
2. Adaptor cards are very cheap <$1
3. Adaptor cards and SD cards have a 'lock' write protect switch so no need to have the switch on your PCB
4. You can use a standard SD card reader shell

#4 MedEvil

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:08 AM

I might be wrong, but i think the write protect switch on SD cards is just like the one from a floppy. It does not really stop the device from writing, but simply tell the device that it should not.

Write protect switches of USB sticks are different. When they say no, it is no.

:cheers:

#5 steve6375

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 12:00 PM

The ISOStick firmware would be able to read the switch setting and set it to WP. So no physical switch would be required.

#6 sambul61

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 12:30 PM

Due to low cost and fast improved specs I wouldn't strive for compatibility with older slower card formats.

#7 myself248

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 03:16 PM

1. Users can use either SD or micro SD


In the meantime, if you have a specific need to use a full-size SD card, try this crawling horror: http://www.dealextre...er-module-27001

#8 steve6375

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 03:20 PM

An adpter is usually included free with each USB Card reader.
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#9 elegantinvention

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 03:48 PM

Why not make it an SD card slot which will take a micro-SD adaptor.

I like your point that this puts the write-protect switch on the card (or adapter) rather than my PCB. One less mechanical component means one less failure point.
Full-size SD cards are also cheaper, so that's a plus.

In my experience the makers of these SD card readers don't generally want to sell just the enclosures, and for me to buy them and then remove the guts would increase production time and hence cost. There's also the possibility of a sourcing nightmare and forced redesign if the one I choose goes off the market. So, either way, I think a custom enclosure is the best route -- it will help me drive the cost down too. Even though the initial investment for a custom enclosure is much higher, the per unit cost is on the order of pennies, so at volume it begins to pay for itself.

That said, full-size SD is still something to consider. :dubbio:
My only hesitation is how much bigger it may be. It's probably not going to comfortably hang on your key chain with a full size SD card.. :pressure:

#10 myself248

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:34 PM

I like your point that this puts the write-protect switch on the card (or adapter) rather than my PCB. One less mechanical component means one less failure point.


In my experience, the write-protect sensor in full-size SD slots is less reliable than a simple switch. Because of how it's constructed (just a single metal finger being pushed or not-pushed by the plastic sliding part), it doesn't have any of the contact-wiping or pressure control that can be designed into a real switch. Many, many of my SD readers falsely report, or ignore, the status of the card's write-protect switch.

That being said, isosel will govern the visibility of the host partition, right? And when only an iso is mounted, obviously it's an optical device so it's read-only, so I'm not worried.



My only hesitation is how much bigger it may be. It's probably not going to comfortably hang on your key chain with a full size SD card.. :pressure:


True enough. And the prices of 32GB MicroSD and a 32GB SD are less than $10 different. Just go with the little one, and if I feel perverse, I'll hand-solder a full-size slot into one and ebay it as a collector's item. ;)

#11 steve6375

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:37 PM

I guess it is economy of scale. Spend $1000's on a new mold and tooling and a large run, or get going with smaller quantities to judge the market, get feedback and perfect the design (and not have to make another tool and throw away the money spent on the first one). Difficult... :dubbio:

#12 elegantinvention

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:54 PM

In my experience, the write-protect sensor in full-size SD slots is less reliable than a simple switch.

Great point :cheers:

That being said, isosel will govern the visibility of the host partition, right? And when only an iso is mounted, obviously it's an optical device so it's read-only, so I'm not worried.

Actually both flash and optical show up at the same time :)

Just go with the little one, and if I feel perverse, I'll hand-solder a full-size slot into one and ebay it as a collector's item. ;)

Awesome :rofle:


I guess it is economy of scale. Spend $1000's on a new mold and tooling and a large run, or get going with smaller quantities to judge the market, get feedback and perfect the design (and not have to make another tool and throw away the money spent on the first one). Difficult... :dubbio:

Yeah, I'm looking at the Kickstarter sales to judge the market right now, and I think a custom enclosure is justifiable. The majority of the feedback I got from that was to make the microSD card easily accessible / removable.

#13 elegantinvention

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 10:07 PM

:thumbsup: Well folks, consider it done! :victory:
The latest two updates on Kickstarter explain it all.
To summarize: I've designed a new enclosure for isostick, and it will even be used for the ones purchased via Kickstarter.

#14 steve6375

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:13 AM

IMHO - Read-Only Switch should be red (=protected), Read/Write should be black (not protected)???

#15 Kira!

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:47 PM

IMHO - Read-Only Switch should be red (=protected), Read/Write should be black (not protected)???

I thinking about the same. :)

Same IMHO :)

#16 TheHive

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:32 AM

You should add a link to the desktopFab on youre signature. I just checked it out from a link on one of you're updates on the site. Very cool 3D Printers technology.


#17 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:06 PM

I have a question, of course feel free to ignore if it involves intellectual property, trade secrets or whatever.
Can you make available a .DWG (or something easily convertable to it) of the "final" external case of the thingy?
Explanation:
From the look of it it seems to me very "brick like", thus it would be possible to devise an (optional and separately purchasable or - even better - DIY) connector protector (as seen in the other thread).

:cheers:
Wonko

#18 elegantinvention

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:17 PM

IMHO - Read-Only Switch should be red (=protected), Read/Write should be black (not protected)???

I appreciate the input. My reasoning was that it is easier to notice something bright and colorful than to notice a lack of it. I felt that the not-protected state is the one which should stand out and be noticed, rather than the protected state. In my opinion, when the device is protected you wouldn't need to notice, because there is no danger. But if you're about to plug it into a computer you don't want writing to it, you'd want that bright red to pop out at you so you can realize it's not safe. Like how cars have lights that turn on, rather than turning off, to indicate a problem.

A counter-argument might be that most people will leave it in not-protected mode most of the time, and so they'll get used to the red and not notice it when it matters. Really I think there's good arguments on both sides and it comes down to opinion and individual usage patterns.

If anyone has a strong argument to put red on the protected side though, I'm all ears!


You should add a link to the desktopFab on youre signature.

Done!



Can you make available a .DWG (or something easily convertable to it) of the "final" external case of the thingy?
Explanation:
From the look of it it seems to me very "brick like", thus it would be possible to devise an (optional and separately purchasable or - even better - DIY) connector protector (as seen in the other thread).

I can see about doing this in the future, sure.
Could maybe design a cap and have it printed at a place like shapeways or ponoko, or something. :)

#19 steve6375

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:21 PM

I have seen many posts by users of SD cards saying 'help - cannot write to my SD card - Windows just keeps saying 'write protected'' because they did not see the tiny WP switch on the card or card reader they were using. Therefore. to avoid user complaints and support calls, etc. the WP state should be RED so it is easily noticed by the user in case they accidentally switch it to WP.

#20 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 08:01 PM

I have seen many posts by users of SD cards saying 'help - cannot write to my SD card - Windows just keeps saying 'write protected'' because they did not see the tiny WP switch on the card or card reader they were using. Therefore. to avoid user complaints and support calls, etc. the WP state should be RED so it is easily noticed by the user in case they accidentally switch it to WP.

Well, IMHO your suggested colouring scheme is counter-intuitive and against normal practice in every field (red or lit or "high visibility" means "danger"/"warning"/"caution") particularly, it is presumed that this thingy will go in the hands of - if not "advanced" users - at least "non-morons", so that the amount of reported problems should be relatively low.
At an added cost, one could put a sticker on the thingy, something like:

HERE IS THE WRITE PROTECT SWITCH ->

on one side and on the other:

Please see other side


Of course FGA#1 on the support site should be:

Q. Help - cannot write to my SD card, why?
A. Because you did not switch the Write protect little switch on the side.


And in order to comply with Safety Rules in the US, you will ned to put on the package something like:

CAUTION:
Operating this device without prior reading of the instructions manual and particularly before gaining a deep understanding of what a write protect switch is intended for and where specifically it is located on the device may cause mental breakdowns. Please locate first thing where the switch is and verify, before attempting a write operation on the device that it is set to "write allowed" (red colour showing) and set it back to "Read only" as soon as you have finished writing to the device. If you open this package you accept this as a binding document between you and Isostick Corporation, preventing you from any legal action connected to the consequences of the stress induced by a failed write operation (something that may happen if you don't read the §@ç#ing manual and this notice).


:cheers:
Wonko

#21 elegantinvention

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 08:20 PM

And in order to comply with Safety Rules in the US, you will ned to put on the package something like...

Bwahahahahahahahahaha :rofle:

Ultimately I think we could all debate this until we're blue in the face.
Since the injection molding place already has the drawings for red = not protected, I'm going to leave it as-is :whistling:

#22 MedEvil

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:33 PM

If anyone has a strong argument to put red on the protected side though, I'm all ears!

Make both sides red and be done with this discussion! :lol:

Therefore. to avoid user complaints and support calls, etc. the WP state should be RED so it is easily noticed by the user in case they accidentally switch it to WP.

Have read some years ago, when USB-Stick, with write protect switch, started disappearing. That the main reason for that was, that too many sticks got send back as broken, when just the write switch was enabled.

So to increase customer satisfaction and to cut down on support costs, the write protect switches were removed.

I bet Wonko will approve of this as much as i! ;)

:cheers:

#23 steve6375

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:44 PM

Have read some years ago, when USB-Stick, with write protect switch, started disappearing. That the main reason for that was, that too many sticks got send back as broken, when just the write switch was enabled.
So to increase customer satisfaction and to cut down on support costs, the write protect switches were removed.

Exactly my point! The WP state needs to be made very obvious to the user. If possible, I would try to modify the current design to try to make the WP state more noticeable to the end user...

#24 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:19 AM

Exactly my point! The WP state needs to be made very obvious to the user. If possible, I would try to modify the current design to try to make the WP state more noticeable to the end user...

Yes, making the switch visible is a good thing. :thumbsup:
Changing common colour convention is not IMHO.
This is a good kind of switch, VERY intuitive in it's working:
Posted Image
problem might be miniaturizing it so that it fits on the thingy. :whistling:

On a more serious note, in "normal" USB stick controllers using the Manufacturer Tool you can normally change the "blinking" light frequency.
If this Isostick thingy is going to have a led, it may blink slowly when the switch is "Read only" and "blink like there is no tomorrow" with the "Write" switch on.... :unsure:
I have also seen sticks with BOTH a green and a red led, maybe it is something to consider :dubbio:.

:cheers:
Wonko




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