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Booting from VHD in Grub4DOS


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#26 cdob

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:50 PM

So, why my pure Win XP VHD requires an extra driver for G4D to boot it?

Because XP dosn't provide a relating driver by default.

How it's different in that respect from Win 7 VHD?

Windwos 7 does provide a VHD driver by default.

#27 sambul61

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:31 PM

That's a little better. :)

So, how would one choose between FiraDisk and WinVBlock for that purpose - any pros and cons?

Once chosen, how would one install the driver onto a VHD if needed?

And then how to make G4D use this driver to mount the VHD for boot?

#28 cdob

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:48 PM

So, how would one choose between FiraDisk and WinVBlock for that purpose - any pros and cons?

Read existing experiences. Or try and report.

Once chosen, how would one install the driver onto a VHD if needed?

I've no idea. Read existing experiences.

And then make G4D use this driver to mount the VHD for boot?

What's G4D?
Grub4dos dosn't use any windows driver.
Grub4dos creates a virtual disk, available at real mode only.
Windows kernel, hal and drivers are loaded from this virtual disk.
Windows uses BIOS calls at that level, virtual disk is available.
Running windows drivers uses direct hardware access, hence the virtual disk disappears.
Read a windows driver has to mount the VHD file.
Booting continues at protected mode.

#29 ireneuszp

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:57 PM

I'm use NTBOOT [2011-10-11]
http://bbs.wuyou.com.....&extra=page=1

Posted Image

in menu.lst add

if not exist NTBOOT set NTBOOT=/boot/ntboot/ntboot



title Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate VHD [ /WIN7_VHD/WIN7_V.VHD ]

find --set-root --ignore-floppies /WIN7_VHD/WIN7_V.VHD

uuid ()

command %NTBOOT% NT6=/WIN7_VHD/WIN7_V.VHD



#30 sambul61

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:54 AM

Thanks cdob - for direct answer to a straightforward questioninstead of attempting to tell a story or teach for life. :thumbsup:

Hopefully, someone will be able to give similar simple answers to:

- how would one choose between FiraDisk and WinVBlock for booting a Win XP VHD - any pros and cons?

- once the driver is chosen, how would one install it onto a Win XP raw image or VHD? Or, should it be installed before such image is made?

#31 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:43 AM

- how would one choose between FiraDisk and WinVBlock for booting a Win XP VHD - any pros and cons?

I personally use to flip a coin. :w00t:

- once the driver is chosen, how would one install it onto a Win XP raw image or VHD? Or, should it be installed before such image is made?

Reading on the related threads that do contain previous experience and instructions, and learning through them how to. ;)

:cheers:
Wonko

#32 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 07:29 AM

A static .vhd is nothing but a RAW image with a single sector appended to it.
grub4dos DOES NOT support .vhd format, simply it supports RAW (or dd-like) ones, and a static .vhd is to all what grub4dos is concerned a RAW image.

Did you ever try to boot a VHD from Grub4DOS? I suspect, you did not, despite all the theory at hand. :dubbio: For example, why don't you create a static VHD with WinXP on it, and then try booting it with Grub4DOS - because its nothing but a raw image. Or, possibly you can post a link to someone else's post (this is familiar :)), who booted such "raw image" VHD with Grub4DOS - don't refer to Sara's Tut pls, since its heavily modded, and the link is well known. :beer:

#33 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 01:28 PM

Did you ever try to boot a VHD from Grub4DOS? I suspect, you did not, despite all the theory at hand. :) For example, why don't you create a static VHD with WinXP on it, and then try booting it with Grub4DOS - because its nothing but a raw image. Or, possibly you can post a link to someone else's post (this is familiar :)), who booted such "raw image" VHD with Grub4DOS - don't refer to Sara's Tut pls, since its heavily modded, and the link is well known. :)

Sure I did. :)
And like everyone else I got a BSOD 0x0000007b until I added to the XP instal inside the image a suitable driver to hook the grub4dos initiated virtual disk, exactly as wimb or sara do in their approach and as has been discussed - respectively - on the Firadisk and on the WinvBlock threads.

:cheers:
Wonko

#34 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 01:53 PM

Hmmm... Really? :photo:

For me XP was never stable in VHD. See my post #82 and earlier.
http://reboot.pro/13731/page__st__75

I think it is because XP needs partition ending on cylinder boundary to compute internal addresses properly.
There is no need or advantage in having XP in VHD.
Much better is to use harddisk type IMG file as made by IMG_XP_Create.exe
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=23553

Can you upload to any webserver your small WinXP VHD that boots with Grub4DOS on your Commodore? :clapping:

#35 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 02:16 PM

Hmmm... Really? :photo:

Really.
But you see, I make all my images respecting cylinder boundaries, and anyway that's what Wimb's reports/thinks.

Can you upload to any webserver your small WinXP VHD that boots with Grub4DOS on your Commodore? :clapping:

Yes. :) Though it doesn't work on my Commodore as I never owned one.
Since it is the third or four time that I give you this piece of info, don't you think that your joke that never made anyone actually laugh is a bit tiring?
Do you really want to insist on this?

:cheers:
Wonko

#36 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 02:23 PM

Yes, I'll be the first to download your XP VHD that can boot with Grub4DOS. There is no evidence that you never had a Commodore... :dubbio:

See - VHD format is not supported by Win XP standard SCSI controller, hence a SCSI miniport driver like WinVBlock wouldn't normally work in Win XP installed onto a VHD (as opposed to IMG, but "that is not relevant"), unless... :lightbulb: May be this can help:

Windows XP as a guest - storage miniport driver

#37 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 02:31 PM

Yes, I'll be the first to download your XP VHD that can boot with Grub4DOS.

I doubt this.

See - VHD format is not supported by Win XP standard SCSI controller, hence a SCSI miniport driver like WinVBlock wouldn't normally work in Win XP installed onto a VHD (as opposed to IMG, but "that is not relevant"), unless... :dubbio: May be this can help:

Windows XP as guest - storage miniport driver

You are still failing to understand the difference between a RAW image and a static .VHD one.
There is NONE, exception made for the appended descriptor sector, that is ignored by grub4dos and by firadisk or winvblock.
If you prefer, when you boot from a .vhd file using grub4dos+a suitable protected mode virtual disk driver, you are actually booting off a RAW image that happens to have an extra sector appended.
The thread you pointed to is about Hyper-V which is a completely different thing.

:cheers:
Wonko

#38 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 02:35 PM

Did you try to boot your WinXP VHD with WinVBlock service running at its boot in QEMU as an attached system drive or via Grub4DOS in QEMU with the VHD mapped from another attached drive - what happen? :book:

#39 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 02:45 PM

Did you try to boot your WinXP VHD with WinVBlock service running at its boot in QEMU as an attached system drive or via Grub4DOS in QEMU with the VHD mapped from another attached drive - what happen? :book:

I don't understand the question.

If the image is mapped in Qemu as "system drive" there is no need whatsoever to use firadisk or winvblock, the "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" will map the "system drive". in the VM.
To use the firadisk or winvblock, you need the image to be inside another image, the latter being mapped in the VM as "system drive".

:cheers:
Wonko

#40 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 04:58 PM

What do you think is wrong with these pictures, and how to fix? :dubbio:


Booting WinXP IMG in Hyper-V by G4D (blinking cursor forever, same for booting a WinXP fixed VHD by G4D - despite the OS was installed to the VHD in the same VM, and it boots when attached as a drive)

Booting WinXP fixed VHD in QEMU by G4D (though the above WinXP IMG boots by G4D, both kept on a second VHD attached to the VM as IDE drive)

Booting WinXP VHD as attached IDE HD in QEMU (here we go again)

Were is our well thanked in advance Sha0 ? :)

#41 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:13 PM

What do you think is wrong with these pictures, and how to fix? :dubbio:


The "hyper-V" one is clearly a grub4dos issue, your image seems like having a wrong geometry/partition table in the MBR.
The other is a STOP 0x00000050, it may depend from a number of things, including the actual version of winvblock you are using.

Asking a question about the two screenshot without providing adequate background will give you only botched attempts or guesses.

You were already told where to look for information, and what is the suggested steps that you should perform.

And also how you should - if you have problems - detail EXACTLY your setup.

There is no sense in going on with this approach.

I.e. you asking a random question without providing the needed details, and when generic advice is provided, stubbornly refuse to follow the advice and do another thing instead. :(


:cheers:
Wonko

#42 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:34 PM

The VHD was created in Win7 Diskmgmt, and formatted inside the VM and OS installed by WinXP setup ISO hoocked to it, and it boots OK as a HD in Hyper-V. Grub4DOS and WinVBlock were taken from wimb's IMG-XP package, since he tested these versions intensively. The same WinXP IMG boots in QEMU by G4D (showing no WinVBlock issues), but does not in Hyper-V. No WinXP guest VM (Hyper-V, VMWare, QEMU) is able to boot a WinXP VHD (saved on another VHD attached to the VM as an IDE hard drive) by G4D with the same component versions properly installed (G4D, WinVBlock).

Regarding "suggested steps", what I suggested you - to upload your bootable WinXP VHD that you claim tested and "actually booting off a RAW image that happens to have an extra sector appended" on your Commodore (if any), so that others can enjoy your success (or failure) and possibly learn a few tricks. :)

I did this several times in several different ways Both works

for my small xp.vhd
* I created 1gb fixed vhd with virtualpc
* i start xp setup on virtualpc only for making the nt5 mbr partition, and brack when setup "start copying files"
* i reboot and continu with grub4dos+winvblock setup...

for my big xp.vhd
* i use acronis ti for convert my .tib to .vhd
* i use vhd_resizer to convert from dinamic to fixed vhd
* i run my vhd on virtualpc , install winvblock & usb.. service.bat
* continu from there...


It must be something about that Virtual PC 2007 VHD format making it stick. :dubbio: It looks like VHD disks created in Win7 Disk Management have geometry incompatible with bootable WinXP installations. Is someone willing to investigate what are exact differences in VHD geometry created in VPC and DM?

However, created in Disk Management VHDs boot just fine, if Win7 is installed onto it. If Win Setup refuses to install OS onto a VHD or HD from Setup ISO, start installation in a VM (like Sara wrote), interrupt as soon as the attached to VM disk is formatted, shutdown the VM and continue install from ISO on real PC after attaching the VHD in Setup ISO Command Prompt with Diskpart.

#43 wimb

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 08:06 PM

@sambul61

For the case IMG_XP_Create.exe and Install of XP in NEW Image file,
you should use booting from real harddisk and not using any virtual machine.

I am always working with real hardware.
XP-1.img is just a file and all operations are limited to that file on the boot drive of your harddisk.
I hope this helps you to detect hardware during XP Setup from ISO with destination XP-1.img Image file.

:cheers:

#44 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 08:33 PM

Thanks for the hint - a good one!

Actual reason I had to transfer OS onto IMG inside a WinXP VM was some IMG formatting issues while running your app in Win7 64-bit. :)

#45 wimb

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 08:35 PM

I am using real XP or Win7 both 32-bits OS

:cheers:

#46 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:15 PM

Regarding "suggested steps", what I suggested you - to upload your bootable WinXP VHD that you claim tested and "actually booting off a RAW image that happens to have an extra sector appended" on your Commodore (if any), so that others can enjoy your success (or failure) and possibly learn a few tricks. :)

What you suggested is that I redistribute (illegally) copyrighted material. :ph34r:
I doubt this will happen (not you suggesting silly things - this is normal - me doing something based on one of your suggestions, and expecially doing something illegal for your benefit).

:cheers:
Wonko

#47 sambul61

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:23 PM

Yes, Wonko In-Sane®, you CAN do it! :)

Particularly I'm interested in your Commodore to be withheld as evidence. :cheerleader:

I still have a slight suspicion though, you never tried most of these things you recommend to others, VHDs included. :dubbio:

#48 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:47 PM

Yes, Wonko In-Sane®, you CAN do it! :)

Particularly I'm interested in your Commodore to be withheld as evidence. :cheerleader:

I still have a slight suspicion though, you never tried most of these things you recommend to others, VHDs included. :dubbio:

I have no Commodore, never had one.
You can have all the supspicions (slight or otherwise) you want.

Have fun. :)

:cheers:
Wonko

#49 sambul61

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 01:23 PM

I make all my images respecting cylinder boundaries, and anyway that's what Wimb's reports/thinks

Could you elaborate on this pls, how exactly you do that, with what tools, at what point after creating an empty IMG (in QEMU?), and is it possible to do with fixed VHDs - how?

Can you actually test it with a VHD file created in Win7 PE (its small and easy to download) or Win 7 Setup ISO (lawful to download), and check whether Grub4DOS won't complain of the sectors number mismatch before posting suggestions. :) Or, backup a small system drive with free Disk2VHD, and see if you can fix the boundaries when needed after resizing it with free VHD Resizer.

And remember, you don't need to buy a license to test Win 7 for quite a long and officially long extendable time, so its not the right excuse despite you always use it. On top, even Commodore (you don't have?) would work fine with a Win 7 PE or other mentioned tools - hopefully. :book:

#50 sambul61

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:02 AM

What I find strange is that, if I create an image of 7gb using Wimb's tool, and then convert the image using Karyonix's raw2vhd and then resize it to say 10gb as an example, all works fine. But if I create a vhd using disk management or diskpart, and install windows xp and what-ever (WinVBlock) then I get the crash.

Just another example, something about VHD formatting source may prevent WinXP to boot from VHD even with virtual drivers or exit normally, unless the drivers (FiraDisk and WinVBlock) are updated - and that never happen before both developers disappeared.




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