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CH, and no, I'm not talking about Switzerland


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#1 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 05:12 PM

These guys here:
http://www.softintegration.com/
though I have rarely seen such a pompous and pretentious approach:
http://www.softinteg...on.com/company/

Our Mission

Our mission is to provide our customers with the best scripting language environment for their computing needs.


and though in my simplicity I ignored :confused1: that I have been dealing for years with clusters of metacharacters :w00t::

Similar to symbolic mnemonic forms of lower level assembly languages, special meanings for clusters of metacharacters in MS-DOS/Unix shells are difficult to remember.

and that there were actually lots of people having day-to-day programming tasks and were actually handling them in C or other conventional programming language :hyper: :

Most users treat these MS-DOS/Unix shells as command interpreters; their day-to-day programming tasks are handled in C or other conventional programming languages.


The actual vision is good :worship::

http://www.softinteg...on.com/company/

Our Vision

Script computing is the future.

The programming paradigm has shifted from non-portable, domain specific programming to portable and rapid application development, from proprietary languages to open languages and from system programming languages to scripting languages.
This paradigm shift has created the following needs and market opportunity:

  • a cross-platform scripting language meeting most programming needs;
  • a highly interactive development system without lengthy compile/link/execute/debug cycles;
  • a joint interpreter/compiler system for mission critical applications;
  • a platform for rapid application development, running in different operating systems and devices, safely and dynamically through network.

Being C (and C sharp - which I usually call C dumb) one of the most unfriendly programming environment I ever saw, and having the good guys having seemingly made it even more complex, this means, more or less:





Let's go java! :ph34r:

A nice example of:
http://www.softinteg...n.com/products/

Ch makes hard things easy and easy things easier.


From:
http://www.softinteg.../docs/ch/shell/

Time of day in 24-hour hh:mm
bash: \A
ch prompt: `date +%k:%M`

:dubbio:

But, once removed all the self-incensing bull§#|t (and I have rarely seen so much of it all together) the thingy seems very nice.

BUT:
  • I have my brain too cluttered by the difficulty of having to remember special meanings of clusters of metacharacters I learned in the past
  • I won't test anything I cannot talk about:





    http://www.softinteg...ense4chstd.html

    5. No Assignment, Transfer or Disclosure. Licensee shall not transfer, disclose, disseminate, provide or otherwise make available all or any part of the Licensed Software or documentation to a third party without the prior written consent of SoftIntegration. Licensee shall not disclose the results of any benchmark tests of the Licensed Software to any third party without SoftIntegration's prior written approval. Neither the Licensed Software nor this Agreement may be assigned or otherwise transferred by Licensee.

Maybe someone else is interested to try the thingy and keep his/her big mouth shut about how it works.... :whistling:

:cheers:
Wonko

#2 pscEx

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 05:28 PM

When looking into the first links, my first idea has been "JAVA second generation": More universal, MUCH more slow, ...

Later I found the "Java" line.

It's a pity that a memory increase (low price of chips) leads to unnecessary memory wasting.
And increase of processor speed and number, 10000 machine instructions, generated by something like .NET or the introduced script language, do not matter, even if some simple ANSI C or especially assembler code, could do it in some ten machine instructions.

Why I'm now thinking on our API? :dubbio:

Peter

#3 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 05:42 PM

Later I found the "Java" line.

Yep, I bolded it and made it red exactly to allow you seeing it at first glance ;):
http://reboot.pro/9128/page__st__129
:whistling:

The idea is IMHO nice :thumbup:, and nothing should prevent you once having tested succesfully the code in "interpreted" mode, to compile it under your standard C# compiler, thus making it in no way different from any program developed along the "old" paradigm.

:cheers:
Wonko

#4 pscEx

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 09:28 PM

Yep, I bolded it and made it red exactly to allow you seeing it at first glance ;):
http://reboot.pro/9128/page__st__129

Thanks for that friendly help!

But because you always write so many text and links in one post, you should understand that I needed some minutes to reach the RED BOLDED JAVA line.

Maybe I need a bigger monitor showing 30++ lines of Wonko-Posts

Peter :cheers:

#5 Nuno Brito

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 10:43 PM

At least java has a big support behind them to keep things optimized and updated.

In alternative to CH, I would suggest Qt to program in C++ using something similar to the Java way of life: http://qt.nokia.com/products/

At least it is free without those crazy "benchmark" restrictions and the sort.

#6 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 07:04 AM

At least java has a big support behind them to keep things optimized and updated.

In alternative to CH, I would suggest Qt to program in C++ using something similar to the Java way of life: http://qt.nokia.com/products/

At least it is free without those crazy "benchmark" restrictions and the sort.


Well, I presume (that though the reasons why it is so escape me) that C and C# as ALREADY optimized and need very little updates.

Java afaik remains essentially an interpreted language.

The new paradigm of developing (and/or maknig the simple things) interpreted and then if needed and to optimize speed compile is the actual interesting part.

:cheers:

Wonko

#7 Nuno Brito

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 07:38 AM

Java afaik remains essentially an interpreted language.

It is a compiled language by default my friend.

The source code is compiled to something called byte code, which is essentially the assembler instructions for the binary: http://en.wikipedia....i/Java_bytecode

These assembler instructions are universal, not tied to any specific CPU machine architecture such as Intel32, AMD or PowerPC. To run byte code, java provides a virtual machine that will interface this byte code with the equivalent assembler instructions on the host machine.

Java code is optimized performance wise when it is first compiled to byte code and also later when running from the virtual machine. The virtual machine part is a bother but it is also the key to allow portability and older binaries to run on newer Java versions. Some manufacturers already created CPU understanding the Java machine assembler instructions by default: http://en.wikipedia..../Java_processor that speed up considerably the speed of execution but it was never commercialized with success.

There also exists interpreted java, my favorite interpreter is BeanShell: http://www.beanshell.org/

:cheers:

#8 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 08:31 AM

To run byte code, java provides a virtual machine that will interface this byte code with the equivalent assembler instructions on the host machine.

Yep :), in my perverted mind this VM interpreters the byte code. :(
The Ch approach is that you write "portable" C code, you test it in the interpreted environment and then you compile it as "native" to the target.
(or run it as "interepreted" in the same Ch but running on the target).

Unless I missed something (and it is very probable :ph34r: since it goes far outside my specific field of competence) Java is NOT an "efficient" solution, as it is slow as molasses when it comes to run something "serious", and the size of the Java runtime is objectively a mass of bloat.

:cheers:
Wonko




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