Jump to content











Photo
- - - - -

Would you pay for a download?


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

Poll: Would you pay for downloads? (20 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think of pay downloads?

  1. Absolutely against the concept! (14 votes [43.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.75%

  2. I think it's ok, but i would never pay for a download. (2 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

  3. I think this could be a way to attract more script developers. (4 votes [12.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

  4. I think this could be a way to raise the quality of the scripts. (5 votes [15.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.62%

  5. I think this could be a way to seriously increase the number of scripts. (2 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

  6. Sure the developers deserve some small compensation for their time. (5 votes [15.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.62%

Would you use pay downloads?

  1. Yes (3 votes [15.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  2. I would never pay for a script, only for a project, those are a lot of work. (2 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  3. No (15 votes [75.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 75.00%

How much would you be willing to pay for a script?

  1. 50 cents (3 votes [15.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.00%

  2. 1 Euro (2 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  3. 2 Euro (1 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  4. 3 Euro (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 4 Euro (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 5 Euro (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Nothing (14 votes [70.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 70.00%

How much would you be willing to pay for a project?

  1. 5 Euro (5 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  2. 10 Euro (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 20 Euro (1 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

  4. 30 Euro (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 40 Euro (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 50 Euro (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Nothing (14 votes [70.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 70.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 28 August 2011 - 02:57 PM

Ever since Nuno introduced the option of pay downloads, i wondered, if anyone around here would actually consider this a valid option.

From experience, i know, that pay downloads are common practice in the rendering commuities. But i would be hard pressed to name any other area.

All script.developers please imagine to be ordinary members, when answering.


:cheers:
  • florin91 likes this

#2 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder


  • Advanced user
  • 10,814 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 28 August 2011 - 03:50 PM

Hey, what if I answer
"Absolutely against the concept."
and
"NO"
to first two questions?

Spoiler


:whistling:

:cheers:
Wonko

#3 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 28 August 2011 - 04:33 PM

Argnn! Thanks for the tip!

:cheers:

edit: Fixed. Now you can vote too! ;)

#4 .William.

.William.

    Newbie


  • Members
  • 29 posts
  • Location:Localized
  • Interests:Development participation: MultiPar, Copy Handler, SARDU, Linux Live USB Creator, B&S.
    Operating Systems: Windows, Ubuntu
  •  
    Belgium

Posted 28 August 2011 - 04:53 PM

I am aware of the financial crisis but this is not the way to go...

Next thing they'll start asking money for Ubuntu. :cold:
If you need money you could try: :music_guitar:
Or if you're a girl you could try: :cheerleader:
Some can earn a decent living by: :juggler:
You could try perhaps in some tv-show with: :whistling:
Some :swimmer: can make good money from it - think bath soap commercials -
If you have special needs you could still ask: :newyear:

Or be like me :crazyrocker: and have nearly NO money at all.
Nonetheless it was not a stupid question to ask whether we would be willing to pay... :money:

Cheers

#5 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder


  • Advanced user
  • 10,814 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 28 August 2011 - 04:56 PM

Argnn! Thanks for the tip!

:cheers:

edit: Fixed. Now you can vote too! ;)


Still the same :(, instead of playing "stupid board expert" (the "stupid" being attributed to the board and not to the expert ;)) do the simple thing, add to last three question a radio button with "0" (as in "zero", "nil", "naught") :whistling:

Sorry :blush: evidently browser neeeded a refresh.

:cheers:
Wonko

#6 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 28 August 2011 - 05:55 PM

@William
I think you completely missed the point.
It's not about making money. In fact, i doubt that anyone could ever make a living of this.
It is mostly a way to motivate people to get of their lazy behinds.

My daughter happened to get interested, about 2 years ago, into rendering.
After i was sure, it was not just a fling, but something, she would do and enjoy for an extended time, i bought her a base setup.
But of course, she still needed/wanted this and that on a regular basis for her pictures, with her allowances being a serious limit.
So she started to create own content and put it online.
At first this just allowed her one or two extra things a month to buy. But with time, she got better and her content got more professional and now she is able, to get all the stuff she likes for her hobby and still have money left, way in excess of her allowances.

I'm very proud of her! But i'm also sure, that if there would never have been a need for her to make money, she would never have started to study so hard and create content for others.


:cheers:

#7 dera

dera

    Gold Member


  • .script developer
  • 1,335 posts
  •  
    Hungary

Posted 28 August 2011 - 11:50 PM

but rendering is art
like Last Elf?

#8 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:00 AM

Yes, redering is art. But creating models, for instance, has more to do with programming than with art.
Skins though are more art than programming. ;)

:cheers:

#9 .William.

.William.

    Newbie


  • Members
  • 29 posts
  • Location:Localized
  • Interests:Development participation: MultiPar, Copy Handler, SARDU, Linux Live USB Creator, B&S.
    Operating Systems: Windows, Ubuntu
  •  
    Belgium

Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:22 AM

@William
I think you completely missed the point.

Sorry, I thought my answer was to the question: Poll: Would you pay for downloads? :dubbio:
I missed you're intended point...

#10 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:28 PM

You answered, by giving a series of activities, how one could get money without affecting you.
When the whole point of pay downloads is to affect you and people like you.

This community consists of just a hand full of developers and a whole lot of leechers.
Usually i don't mind the leechers, if there are a healthy number of developers, which, in our case, is unfortunately not the case.

So, imo, we have to do something to get some new developers or to allow the existing ones, to spend more time here.

With pay downloads everyone could decide, how to contribute to the commuity.
Just throw some cash at the problem or pay the community back by investing time here.
The only thing not possible anymore or very reduced, would be to just leech off the commuity and not giving anything back.


:cheers:

#11 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:38 PM

@all, who are against pay downloads

I'm very surprised, how many are absolutely against the idea.
I expected the most negative opinion to be "I think it's ok, but i would never pay for a download", cause ctmags project is already a project, which can not be downloaded for free. One has to buy it!
And i can't remember, anyone, but me, having the slightest problem with that.

Strange point of view, imo. To be aginst it, if it benefits the community, but not, when it does not benefit the community. :mega_shok:

:cheers:

#12 BiTByte

BiTByte

    Member


  • Members
  • 31 posts
  •  
    Austria

Posted 29 August 2011 - 01:08 PM

I'm very surprised, how many are absolutely against the idea.
I expected the most negative opinion to be "I think it's ok, but i would never pay for a download", cause ctmags project is already a project, which can not be downloaded for free. One has to buy it!


i am not surprised when i look at my donation and business account

regards

#13 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder


  • Advanced user
  • 10,814 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 29 August 2011 - 01:49 PM

@all, who are against pay downloads

I'm very surprised, how many are absolutely against the idea.
I expected the most negative opinion to be "I think it's ok, but i would never pay for a download", cause ctmags project is a project, which can not be downloaded for free. One has to buy it!
And i can't remember, anyone, but me, having the slightest problem with that.

Strange point of view, imo. To be aginst it, if it benefits the community, but not, when it does not benefit the community. :mega_shok:

:cheers:


Well, it all depends in how you ask a question (and which question you ask).
If the question was:

Is it fair that anyone should be payed, in money, for his/her work? (provided that they are not doing whatever they do "pro bono")

The answer (at least mine) would have been yes.

But the question was (indirectly):

Is boot-land reboot.pro the right placefor this people to offer the non-free (as in free beer) products?

and (from your last post):

Do you think that by substituting patriots with mercenaries we will have more people in the Army?


Your reference to ctmag is emblematic, as I see it. :dubbio:

More or less once a year a peep comes here, harvests all the ideas/news, puts them together (and often asks to other peeps HOW to do this and that) then the "product" which is - say - 80% pr 90% a product of the Community gets in German Newskiosks for sale, and actual members do not have a chance to even see it. (German members have no way without buying the magazine, all the rest have no chance period, moreover with a generic and entirely fishy pretext of "licensing rights" and also very scarce "moral" attribution to the actual Authors )
JFYI, everytime I see that annual ctmag, I feel deprived, as in it there are most probably - directly or indirectly - some of my (definitely small and trivial) contributions to the Community that some other peep will get only by paying for them.

I am happy about your daughter and her successes :), but would it be appropriate that she would go (say) at your local youth (or bridge or golf) club nagging members to buy one of her drawings/renderings?

If this place is intended as a Community where ideas (and products of intellectual work) are exchanged for the fun of it, having it work on money, making it an "e-bay" for little programs, scripts or "projects" this is not appropriate.
If this place is intended as a launch platform for small and young programmers, why not?

But while you may gain in number (i.e. quantity but not necessarily in quality) of .script developers it may turn out that the (still very few) people that stay here because of the fun and of the freedom, may go away.

:cheers:
Wonko

#14 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 29 August 2011 - 02:44 PM

I am happy about your daughter and her successes :), but would it be appropriate that she would go (say) at your local youth (or bridge or golf) club nagging members to buy one of her drawings/renderings?

I don't know, if you have ever been to a golf club, i was only twice.
But they had there a bar, a restaurant and a shop. Non of them was free! Heck not even the use of the course was free.
I would go as far, as to say, that it is common place, that one has to pay for things to use or own.

When i read, that a project to people is, at most, still less worth than a beer at the oktoberfest, a pack of cigarettes or a menu at McDonalds. I shudder!


Worst of all to me is, that the majority of people using our projects are doing so in their job! Which does not only mean they use it, to make money, but also, that they have the knowledge to contribute here, which they choose to not do.


This may sound overly pessimistic, but let me tell you a story.
When i was still a little BigNice, neighbors, friends and acquaintances would constantly ask me for help, but when i ask for help, everyone had something way more important to do, like watching paint dry.
This didn't change, by me asking more nicely or going more out of my way to help them.
Only when i started to demand, that they return the favors or take a hike, the balance was restored.


:cheers:

#15 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder


  • Advanced user
  • 10,814 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 29 August 2011 - 03:58 PM

I don't know, if you have ever been to a golf club, i was only twice.
But they had there a bar, a restaurant and a shop. Non of them was free! Heck not even the use of the course was free.
I would go as far, as to say, that it is common place, that one has to pay for things to use or own.

Sorry, but you are misunderstanding me.
Of course the golf club (or whatever else) services may be based on money, but the scope is (or should be ) in the example "to play golf" and "to talk about golf" and "exchange ideas about golf". (I've never been a member of such a club so I don't really know what they actually do inside it, but this is what the members you may know will tell you they did or do normally inside the club)

There are other places , called shops or markets, where you sell your work (manual or intellectual) the scope of these places is "to sell products".
I've never went to the local market and asked to play golf and have never been to the golf club asking to buy some anchovies, so I don't really really know what would happen.

This may sound overly pessimistic, but let me tell you a story.
When i was still a little BigNice, neighbors, friends and acquaintances would constantly ask me for help, but when i ask for help, everyone had something way more important to do, like watching paint dry.
This didn't change, by me asking more nicely or going more out of my way to help them.
Only when i started to demand, that they return the favors or take a hike, the balance was restored.

Very good. :)

You learned at an early age how lots of people are bastards and decided to become one of them in order to not be overpowered by them.
But here, notwithstanding this your apparent belonging to the category of bastards, you shared for free some of your knowledge, ideas or intellectual work, getting no money in exchange for that and maybe only some help from time to time.

Are there more thankless and ungrateful bastards than nice people?
Are there an almost infinite number of leechers and very few caring, sharing people?

Undoubtedly so, but what gives?

We do need some less leechers and some more contributors, but I doubt that "good" contributors will be appealed by a trifling amount of money. :dubbio:
And BTW, should any project/.script/program become payware, the day after it would be all over the WAREZ scene (you might know something about the concept of respecting intellectual property ;))

Mind you, this has nothing to do with the decision that each developer/Author is perfectly free to take between giving away his things for free or in exchange for money, it is simply about the opportunity of advertising here on boot-land reboot.pro or even worse, have boot-land reboot.pro offer them some marketing or payment services.

And we already had the experiences with peeps like Mustang on 911CD and (IMHO similar but of far less gravity) the issue about KAPE here on boot-land.
I personally disapprove of that behaviour.

Again, nothing "bad" in having a service to manage payments, but everyone knows (or should know) how to put up a web site, how to sign a convention with paypal or kagi or whatever existing service to mange their payments and also how to pay for their online advertising.

Only this is not the "spirit" of the board (as it was when founded).

:cheers:
Wonko

#16 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member




  • Amount:

    Developer
  • 5,332 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers (!), programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), OSes, photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 29 August 2011 - 06:04 PM

re. your German magazine. I was asked very recently if they could put RMPrepUSB into their cover DVD (FYI - an article will be in the new German COM! (Praxis?) mag which comes out in Sept. 2nd on RMPrepUSB - shame I can't get a copy in the UK :whistling: ). I refused permission and asked them to point people to my website where they can download it or the Beta and see some of the tutorials (which I hope I have attributed to reboot members where applicable :cold: ) and also point them to reboot if they want to look at a forum or ask for help. My thoughts were that they are commercial magazine which are selling (in effect) other peoples free products (mine and other reboot members work) for their own gain. If they are using someone's work without permission or attribution then you should complain!
My RMPrepUSB site carries Google Ads and I do get a very small revenue from these. I think this is fair and it does not cost anyone (directly) any money. Clicking on an ad is purely voluntary. Reboot used to carry ads and have an ad revenue share scheme. Some revenue went to the post author and some to reboot. I think this is a much better way to go. Why was this abandoned?

#17 pscEx

pscEx

    Platinum Member




  • Amount:

    Team Reboot
  • 12,428 posts
  • Location:Korschenbroich, Germany
  • Interests:What somebody else cannot do.
  •  
    European Union

Posted 29 August 2011 - 06:17 PM

re. your German magazine. I was asked very recently if they could put RMPrepUSB into their cover DVD (FYI - an article will be in the new German Praxis mag which comes out in Sept. 2nd on RMPrepUSB - shame I can't get a copy in the UK :whistling: ). I refused permission and asked them to point people to my website where they can download it or the Beta and see some of the tutorials (which I hope I have attributed to reboot members where applicable :cold: ) and also point them to reboot if they want to look at a forum or ask for help. My thoughts were that they are commercial magazine which are selling (in effect) other peoples free products (mine and other reboot members work) for their own gain. If they are using someone's work without permission or attribution then you should complain!

You have my full 'thank you' for your reaction! :thumbsup:

Peter

#18 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 29 August 2011 - 06:26 PM

I think this is a much better way to go. Why was this abandoned?

Probably because about everyone uses an adblocker these days.

:cheers:

#19 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:08 PM

There are other places , called shops or markets, where you sell your work

The right place to sell golf accessories is a golf club, the right place to sell rendering accessories is a rendering forum and the right place to sell WinBuilder scripts and projects is reboot.pro.

You learned at an early age how lots of people are bastards and decided to become one of them in order to not be overpowered by them.

Sure, everyone, who is not 100% Nice 100% of the time, is a bastard!
Did think that too, when i was young. But arn't we two a bit too old, to still be that stupid?

Humans are not A all the time or B all the time. Humans adapt to the situations they're in.
They can be a bastard to one person and the nicest helpful person to another.

So if you wanna be treated badly and taken advantage of, just tell people, you want them to be bastards.
But if you wann be treated nice and fairly, tell people, you want them to be nice.

How does one do that?
If you want people to be bastards, just show them, that you let them walk all over you.
If you wan't people to be nice, just show them, that it is more advantageous for them, to stay on your good side.


btw. I don't think i'm a bastard, just because i now have a balanced personality.
Being nice to people, who are nice to me and not nice to people, who are not nice to me, makes me the type of person most people feel most comfortable with.

And BTW, should any project/.script/program become payware, the day after it would be all over the WAREZ scene

Yep, that's life! Can't see M$ closing shop and stop developing OS, because it will anyway become Warez.


Only this is not the "spirit" of the board (as it was when founded).

Sure, but back then, the main focus of the board was development and not support, like today.
Not to speak of, that the ratio of developers to "users" was way different than today.

To say it with Darwin. Those who do not adapt to changing circumstances, die out


:cheers:

#20 Wonko the Sane

Wonko the Sane

    The Finder


  • Advanced user
  • 10,814 posts
  • Location:The Outside of the Asylum (gate is closed)
  •  
    Italy

Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:19 PM

If they are using someone's work without permission or attribution then you should complain!

Mind you I never said that, it's actually the fact that nothing (or very little) came back to the board (as a bettered project/set of .scripts) that I am particularly talking about.
Part of the last article of the series is online (older ones need to be bought :whistling: as well as the full article) it can be read allright via google translate:
http://www.heise.de/...ng-1286246.html
I am pretty sure that in the rest of the article Winbuilder and the good boot-land reboot.pro guys that contributed are properly cited, but not "in public".
Compare with the "old" version:
http://www.heise.de/...010-939723.html
(this is AFAIK perfectly legal from all points of view, only it is not "nice" IMHO)
One of the projects is here (NOT dowloadable for the mentioned "fishy" licensing rights):
http://www.heise.de/...l_windows/75642
http://www.heise.de/...indows/75642sp1
mind you it is listed as "c't-Notfall-Windows 2010 kommerziell"

MInd you Markus is AFAICT a nice guy :) and has all the rights in the world to get paid for his work, only I find this particular approach "not nice".


Of course we cannot link to an actual copy of it, since it would be a breach of Copyright :whistling::
http://reboot.pro/11910/

:cheers:
Wonko

#21 steve6375

steve6375

    Platinum Member




  • Amount:

    Developer
  • 5,332 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:computers (!), programming (masm,vb6,C,vbs), OSes, photography,TV,films,guitars
  •  
    United Kingdom

Posted 29 August 2011 - 09:08 PM

Probably because about everyone uses an adblocker these days.

:cheers:

Well I still get quite a few ad clicks per month from those that don't!

#22 AceInfinity

AceInfinity

    Frequent Member




  • Amount:

    Team Reboot
  • 222 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Windows Security, Programming, Customizing & Crash Dump Analysis.
  •  
    Canada

Posted 29 August 2011 - 09:40 PM

I think the concept here isn't limited to script developers, and that should have been noted in the first poll. What about application downloads? They would still be eligable for being sold on the forum.

#23 MedEvil

MedEvil

    Platinum Member


  • .script developer
  • 7,763 posts

Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:27 PM

"Would you pay for a download?" clearly encompasses applications download.
I just omitted the question about, what an application is worth to one, as this would be a pretty redicilous poll, imo.

:cheers:

#24 AceInfinity

AceInfinity

    Frequent Member




  • Amount:

    Team Reboot
  • 222 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Windows Security, Programming, Customizing & Crash Dump Analysis.
  •  
    Canada

Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:10 PM

This is what I see in the poll though, so it's a pretty biased poll

  • Absolutely against the concept!
  • I think it's ok, but i would never pay for a download.
  • I think this could be a way to attract more script developers.
  • I think this could be a way to raise the quality of the scripts.
  • I think this could be a way to seriously increase the number of scripts.
  • Sure the developers deserve some small compensation for their time.





That would be like going on a selective campaign to ask people who the best hockey teams were in the country of Canada, and only being able to select between Vancouver and Toronto. The main idea is there, but the selections are limited.

You don't have to compare the worth between the two, but the selection shouldn't be limited to only the partial amount of download content that is available in the portal

#25 sambul61

sambul61

    Gold Member


  • Advanced user
  • 1,568 posts
  •  
    American Samoa

Posted 09 September 2011 - 04:17 PM

I like William's post, if that answers the poll. :alone: I think, this resource better suites needs of hobbyists and those folks who want to tap into future software developer profession. It offers free self proclaimed experts' advice, and the opportunity to test waters with a half backed product idea. I value this resource a lot, but "no cigar" pls...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users