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live repair disk for blind people


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#101 blindside

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 04:53 PM

Thank you. Now I see what I need for setting the script.
And while I am waiting I try again to "update" the projec and even sow the "reset to factory settings" button. But still I am not successful avoiding 7z problem. Here is a link to the log file.
https://dl.dropbox.c...176021/log.html
Maybe I still don't do something right or am missing something along the way.

#102 pscEx

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 05:27 PM

I delivered a new multiPE project.

Please install into a fresh directory.

NVDA support is added by checking "Add NVDA support" in the middle right of the project GUI.
No other definitions necessary.

Peter

#103 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

Dear Peter,
You have really added checkbox add NVDA support and this checkbox is even checked by The default.
If somebody want to look at this button with NVDA, press simply TAB key till You will hear The name of this checkbox. When You will run winbuilder.exe.
Thank You very much Peter for adding NVDA support back to The Multipe project, also for users who are no so advanced developer like You are.
If this multipe version will work, i will place it at The dropbox server and i will spread The world about this Multipe release.
By The way, You are really optimizing The scripts code and The c language source code of Winbuilder.exe, so The build time is faster and faster with every new Multipe version.

Very well done.

I Am only sad because of Yours pefactory special setting, which is enabling me to even transfer created live project to The bootable USB flash drive.
When i choose The combobox to specifi The UFD, i can not find The combobox to choose The USB drive letter.
Would You look at The factory script during several days? Combobox is not focusable by using TAB or SHIFT+TAB keys.
Or user must add The USB drive letter to some .ini file before pressing The play button?
The comboboxes for specifiing The type of created live environment, for example, .iso image, burning type are accessible.
The checkbox add NVDA support is perfectly focusable with screen reader for Yours programmers inspiration.

#104 pscEx

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:05 PM

There is a GUI in PEFactory > Config > 6-Create Image > Create USB Flash drive.

Here you one times must define your local settings.
Click "Search Removable drives" in the middle right.
This will fill the combobox left of the button with available UFD drives.
Do your choice.

Usually you never have to define this again.

Peter

#105 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 06:40 PM

Thank You very much Peter, i AM very sorry, that i have lost inside The project tree structure.
Yes, there is even search removable drive button, after pressing it, i can choose my USB removable drive.
Thank You very, very much for Yours explanation.
And thank You, that You have made Yours best to enable non XP users to create live image based on Windows Xp while running VIsta, Windows7 or even Windows8.

Now i can create live project based on XP sources from Windows7, this was not possible while running Multipe12, sure because of The necessarity to create .img file by using IM virtual driver.

So as i can see, The Multipe project will enable users to work very effective with their installation sources.
I wisch You good night and much nice dreams.
Mr Blindside, if You will have some question, i will also do my best to give You answer.

#106 blindside

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:18 PM

Thank you Peter, and you JanuszChmiel for willing to answer questions.

I am still in this idiotic 7z circle and can not understand why.

Even when I try to activate MyNVDA winbuilder complains that z7.exe is not a valid 32 application. Then I delete:
• 7z*.*
• autoit3.exe
• Flag_x86 or Flag_x64, whatever is present.
in /projects/tools/nativeex and winbuilder then complains that it can not find 7z.exe. All this with the newest version 47 of multiPE. Surely I am the only one in the world with this problem, but if you know the answer, please help.

Edited by blindside, 01 August 2012 - 07:20 PM.


#107 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:30 PM

Dear Peter,
Please, would You give us direct download link to latest available Kqemu accelerator for Windows?
You have incorporated checkbox to Yours script enable Kqemu.
Thank You very much and thank You, that You have included latest available Qemu for Windows to Yours project.
I can find only Kqemu for Windows from Year 2009.

#108 pscEx

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 09:07 PM

I am still in this idiotic 7z circle and can not understand why.

Even when I try to activate MyNVDA winbuilder complains that z7.exe is not a valid 32 application. Then I delete:
• 7z*.*
• autoit3.exe
• Flag_x86 or Flag_x64, whatever is present.
in /projects/tools/nativeex and winbuilder then complains that it can not find 7z.exe. All this with the newest version 47 of multiPE. Surely I am the only one in the world with this problem, but if you know the answer, please help.

Maybe there is something left in the registry from some experiments.
When you are working on a x86 host and your registry has a tree HKLMSoftwareWoW6432Node multiPE decides that you are working on a x64 host.

In a 86 host that tree should never exist.

Peter

#109 blindside

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:08 AM

When you are working on a x86 host and your registry has a tree HKLMSoftwareWoW6432Node multiPE decides that you are working on a x64 host.

Here it exists and strangely it contains license key for one of the sapi5 voices I have and also a key for Internet explorer. When I go back from work I will experiment by deleting it. This tree contains a key "Wow6432Node" which has no settings in it.
Thank you for pointing me to this direction.




#110 pscEx

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:12 AM

Glad that we found the Voodoo :clap:

Peter

#111 pscEx

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:47 AM

The issue should be fixed with muitiPE version 48.

Peter

#112 pscEx

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:00 PM

Please have a look at multiPE version 49 and tell me whether that is useful.

Peter

#113 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:06 PM

Dear Peter,
Thank You for Yours latest Multipe project release.
I know, that You will have enough to adapt it for NVDA, but i must disappoint You.
Yours project is preparing functioning live images, sound support is incorporated, USB and even virtual audio soýund devices are working, but unfortunately, there is some problem with NVDA.
NVDA is producing only The welcome sound and it terminates.
If You are being able to run NVDA normally, please tell Me, which version of NVDA You are running?
The one click NVDA support solution is really working, very well done.
NVDA worked automatically for me, when i have tried Multipe 24, it is The version near to todays version, .img image is also not used.
But now, NVDA also from virtual machine, is only producing welcome sound.
The problem is with The NVDA need to access TMP folder.
And The fact, that NVDA is creating .log file.
The reason why NVDA can not work is complex to find out.
I know, that with Multipe 48, NVDA is being copyed to RAM drive R:
This drive is writable.
But if You will enough of it, i will understand it.
I will also try Multipe 49, which You have uploaded.

So for summary.
NVDA is being incorporated perfectly.
Sound drivers, USB headsets, drivers for virtual machines are also incorporated perfectly.
Oneclick NVDA checkbox is perfect.
The problem.
NVDA can not be started when running Yours created live .iso images normally.
NVDA is only producing welcome sound and that is all. After playing welcome sound, NVDA will terminate.
I Am very sorry.
Triing to incorporate factory settings from Multipe 24 to latest versions is producing The same results and for now it would only cause a confusion and havoc.

#114 pscEx

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:25 PM

But if You will enough of it, i will understand it.

As long, as I get reasonable reports, I'm an explorer who wants to solve the issue.
I'm currently trying "all" combinations of "No Image" / "RAM Image" in Emulator, UFD and CD.

That will take some hours.

Please do not think that I gave up.

Peter

#115 pscEx

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:04 PM

I could reproduce the issue.
Reason: During boot of PE NVDA is started before installing all drivers (especially audio) is completed.

I'm starting to fix, but I think that will take until tomorrow ...

Peter

#116 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:23 PM

Dear Peter,
Please be very careful during this exploration.
When i quit NVDA and restart it from virtual environment, NVDA will not speak too.
The issue is according to my opinion caused by other factor.
Because when i start NVDA again from other location, NVDA is working perfectly.
This complex issue is only exist while triing to run NVDA from Windows PE 1.0 environment based on Windows XP.
There is somethink with pointer, from which drive NVDA have been started.

I have been forced to use NVDA only with Multipe12, Multipe24 and with LXC.102011.exe made by MR AMAlux.

Only from this live Pe i could read The Windows error message, that there is not enough virtual memory.
But i think, that this error is only cause by The fact, that there is necessary to allow NVDA to have writable drive to create .log file ETC.
I will use setpagefile.exe, excellent tool which is able to force PE environment to use virtual memory if it will help or no.

If i can be openheart to You, The multipe12 .img technique was The best, NVDA have been started correctly.
Yes, it is inpredictable, how long will take The system to run NVDA.
Multipe12 is not producing issues related to NVDA, i will test it with The same version of NVDA which i Am using with Yours latest Pe.

I have been forced to use GLDR to load LXC.102011 produced ISO image from bootable USB stick.
NVDA could not be incorporated by using script or NVDA could not be started from The root drive of The bootable CD.

I do not know, why NVDA is working without those issues from Windows7 PE and from Windows XP, there are so stupid memory or drive mapping issues.

#117 pscEx

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:43 PM

Thanks for the hints!

Do not see it too complicated.

I made a fault during project / script design and am working on fixing.

NO problem!

Peter

#118 pscEx

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:13 PM

I found the reason of your issues, but not really yet a solution.

The reason of your issues is the classical question "Which is first, hen or egg?"

On booting, several drivers are installed. Some of them are necessary for NVDA to run.
But sometimes the PE cannot decide between several possibilities. Then it asks the user to choose.

For not blind people it is no issue. They see the question and answer.
But blind people have to hear to NVDA, which is not yet working at that time, and therefore cannot "see" the question and answer.

I'll try to find the "most propable automatic choice" for that case.

Peter

#119 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:50 AM

Good morning dear Peter.
I have deeply thinked about issues with NVDA.
When You have successfully run NVDA included inside The resulted live project created by multipe24, i have found out, that there is really not only problem with driver host module in The latest Multipe.
There is somethink else.
It is true, that when boot from Multipe24 created .iso image, NVDA can not be run fully automated by A blind user.
Driver import or other named module is really giving user some questions and it is not easy to press right keyboard shortcuts without feetback.
But nevermind, after pressing TAB twice, followed by pressing SPACE and after next several keystrokes, i have found out, that NVDA is not running.
So i started NVDA by using start menu keyboard shortcut, i pressed p, followed by a and m letter.
I have pressed Enter key.
NVDA executed successfully.
But in The latest Multipe, NVDA could not run because of some errors inside The scripts. But with Multipe 47, 46, NVDA could be incorporated, even executed but only welcome sound have plaied.

After terminating NVDA and after restart it, also only welcome sound have been plaied.
So for now,
Multipe24 and Multipe12 can incorporate and execute NVDA correctly.
Bestly Multipe12, because driver import module is not giving user The questions and this version is very near to quick usability of NVDA for totally blind users.

I have found out, that You are using excellent RAM drive formatted by using NTFS file system, ramdrive
R:
This RAM drive is containing The Program FilesNVDA
With NVDA files.
I will play with Multipe project.
I will use Poweriso and i will import The content of The multipe46 or 44 created live content to iso image created by Multipe24, may be, that You are using other boot loader and this is making some memory mapping difference, which is causing The issues to The NVDA.

I love Iso editors, i think, that i will find The real cause of The issues with NVDA.

#120 pscEx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:44 PM

Version 49 works perfect! Maybe there is something corrupted in your local multiPE project.
That could happen by e.g. overwriting an existing project with a never version.

Do this:
Create a new project directory. It should not be in "Documents and Settings".
Download http://multipe.exec-...tipe_latest.zip and unzip to the new directory.

Define the source CD as usual.

In the project GUI check "Add NVDA support" in the right, lower third.

Build the project by clicking the Play button.

I'm sure that the PE will boot in emulator and NVDA starts correctly with sound.

Depending on your local system, the emulator can be VMWare, VirtualBox or qEmu. qEmu will need a lot of time. So do not assume that NVDA hangs.

When you have success with this, we'll go to next steps: Build UFD or CD.

Peter

#121 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:43 PM

Dear Peter,
I Am really very deeply appreciating Yours programmers efford, which You are giving to solve The NVDA issue.
This project, which You have given me direct link to download is working without errors, but NVDA is only plaiing welcome sound.
No speech.
After triing to restart it, NVDA is only producing welcome melody and nothink else.

By The way, i have strongly experimented with NVDA while using other live XP projects creators and i have found out, that there is some complex memory conditions related issue.

The fact is still, that NVDA can be run bestly from Multipe12, from Multipe version 24 too, but user must have sighted assistance to answer some driver related questions. But NVDA is working perfectly without issues, Speech is being produced.

And to my experiments from today.

I have found out, that Ramdisk R: and X: are being created by live project and that there are two formulas to calculate The size of those RAM drives.
So The sizes of those ramdisk is dependent on The fact, how much RAM is available on The target system.
SO i have found out, that in some cases, problem, which we are trying to solve with Multipe new versions can be sometimes solved by running NVFDA installer from live Pe.
There is somethink strange, which make NVDA to run normally.

The fact is, that The project, which You have given us to try can be used with NVDA, if NVDA portable variant will be run from other location, not from CD, but only from USB stick or from harddrive.
In this case, NVDA will operate correctly with speech.

If You get speech from NVDA normally, then it is memory related problem, which we are helpless to solve.

The same issue exist also when triing to run NVDA from other live XP project builders, it is not problem by Yours builds, it is specific issue of NVDA.
Myother portable screen reader is working perfectly, NVDA is very probably triing to write somewhere or there is memory allocation issue.
You have done Yours best and i will not intrude You anymore with it, because The issue would be may be solved together with NVDA developers.

Nvda is creating comtypes cache folder in temp, i could try to ban NVDA to do this by modifi it source code, but i think, that i would get in some situations, where i would be helpless to modifi The right parts of source code.

So The findings.

Now, NVDA incorporated to Yours project is only producing welcome melody, no matter, if run from virtual machine or with standard computer.
When running NVDA from other locations, NVDA portable or NVDA installer, NVDA will work perfectly too.

This problem, which we are trying to solve is also related to some behaviour, which is caused by NVDA, not by Yours algorithms.

For now, The best strategy is to run NVDA from USB stick. The issue is only not presented while using Windows7 live project builders, The issue is specific to Windows Pe 1.0 and NVDA interaction.

Thank You Peter for Yours complex work.

So reliable Multipe projects versions, which are able to run NVDA internally incorporated to The live project are versions 12 and 24.

#122 pscEx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:49 PM

This project, which You have given me direct link to download is working without errors, but NVDA is only plaiing welcome sound.
No speech.

I cannot understand the "Why".
You are doing (I hope) the same like me.
My build works correctly. Your build does not.

What is the difference?

Did you do exactly what I described in my previous post?
Please don not do any personal modifications where you assume that they are not influencing the result or necessary.

I have 2011.2 installed.

Peter

#123 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:15 PM

Dear Peter,
I Am very, very sorry to You.
I Am apologizing to You Peter.
The issue have been caused by The new version of NVDA, which i have tried to use with Yours project.
So i can confirm now, that NVDA can be run fully automated, from The Multipe version, which You have given me to try.

I will try it while running The live image with normal computer.

Nvda newer than 2011.2 is causing some memory related complex issues.
Thank you, that You have given me The NVDA version number, which You are using with Yours builds.

#124 pscEx

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:22 PM

Do not worry, and do not waste some time now with unnecessary experiments.

I downloaded NVDA 2012.1.1 and also have some issues.

Give me time until tomorrow to solve.

Peter

#125 JanuszChmiel

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:51 PM

Dear Peter,
Very well done, I can use MultiPe which You have provided with NVDA 2011.2, with USB headsets connected and also while running from VIrtual machine. The NVDA version was The problem.
It will not be easy to fix this problem.
It can be somethink with memory allocations, it will take You much time to do.

for Now, i Am suggesting You to make The Multipe release assigned as usable MultiPE project version with NVDA, if Windows Xp have been selected as A source.
Do not forget to mention, that user must include nVDA 2011.2 portable to work with this project.

I do not want to make You sad because complex memory issues.

NVDA is Using NVDAhelper .exe for loading special C language dll, there can be also hydden issues caused by The Python version or Python component version called by NVDA.

Finding The cause, why newest NVDA can not be used will not be really easy to solve.




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