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Fast ISO Booting of Win7PE


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#26 al_jo

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 02:59 PM

@al_jo

Your script works, but unpacking the 7 PE ISO file is not needed.
I prefer to use BOOT_USB.exe where I can use the 7 PE ISO Boot Image file unchanged and can boot direct from Grub4dos Menu.

http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=24424

In this way I can combine many ISO files (also Linux e.g. PartedMagic) or IMG or VHD files.

:cheers:

Nice project you have there :smiling9:
Question: Using "boot_usb.exe" will speed up the win7pe booting time?
Or will it be the same?
:cheers:

#27 wimb

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 03:24 PM

Nice project you have there :smiling9:
Question: Using "boot_usb.exe" will speed up the win7pe booting time?
Or will it be the same?
:cheers:

USB-stick prepared with BOOT_USB.exe and using Grub4dos Menu and your Win7rescue.ISO file
has the same boottime as compared to using your script and this is about 55 sec in total for my laptop.

:cheers:

#28 gearmaker

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 01:54 AM

@wimb

I use your make_USB.exe whenever I need to put a project on a flashdrive.I guess Boot_USB.exe must be the newest version.
Thank you for these tools :cheers: . I noticed that the make_usb tool puts the plop boot manager on the stick when
grub4dos is selected. If I understand what I've been reading about plop, it allows USB 2.0 speed to be enabled at
bootup. This sounds like what I have been looking for. I loaded the iso from al_jo's project using make_usb and grub4dos. Here is menu.lst:


title Boot Win7rescue.ISO - ISO from RAM
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /Win7rescue.ISO
map --mem /Win7rescue.ISO (0xff)
map --hook
root (0xff)
chainloader (0xff)

title PreLoad USB2.0 - via PLoP BootManager
root (hd0,0)
kernel /plpbt.bin


Maybe you could help me understand this. When I boot the stick I select PreLoad USB2.0 from menu. Then the plop menu comes up. Then I select USB from options. Then the first menu comes back with the Win7rescue.ISO and plop.
This time I select " Boot Win7rescue.ISO " . It looks like it is doing something and then a black screen comes up
saying " finding upper memory " . I think that is what I remember seeing. It just stays there and nothing happens.
Make_USB installed the iso and grub4dos and made the menu.lst. However plop doesn't appear to be working.I will read up on plop but if this is a problem you have come across I would welcome your help.

Thank you all :smiling9:

#29 wimb

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:30 AM

@gearmaker

BOOT_USB.exe
is a modern and improved version of Make_USB.exe

My use of and experience with PLoP is similar as yours.
PLoP does work only in few cases for me and is (not yet) implemented in BOOT_USB.exe

:smiling9:

#30 gearmaker

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:24 AM

@wimb


I will try your new version and will also keep reading and hopefully learning :smiling9:

Thank you again

#31 MedEvil

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:21 PM

I can confirm a boot time for al_jos project, from between 25 seconds and roughly 13 minutes, from the same SLC highspeed USB-Stick on different USB2.0 computers.

Though i really like the high number of included applications, i couldn't help but notice that the PE feels somewhat raw, like one of the early BartPE. The apps are included, but not integrated.
I guess some prefer this raw feeling for a PE, i prefer the more polished feel of a full blown Windows in a PE.


:smiling9:

#32 al_jo

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 04:35 PM

I can confirm a boot time for al_jos project, from between 25 seconds and roughly 13 minutes, from the same SLC highspeed USB-Stick on different USB2.0 computers.


;)


The 13 minutes PC is how old? 10 years? 96MB ram? 486 or 586?
Can you please give us the full spec from that computer?
Only curious…
:smiling9:

#33 MedEvil

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:04 PM

The 13 minute PC is roughly 4 years old, has 2 GB RAM and a 3,2GHz Celeron D 352 CPU.


:smiling9:

#34 al_jo

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:28 PM

The 13 minute PC is roughly 4 years old, has 2 GB RAM and a 3,2GHz Celeron D 352 CPU.


:smiling9:

Not so bad spec.
Perhaps something wrong with usbbus/chip/ports?
I would have tried a pci2usb2 card for about 10euro to see if it makes some changes.
;)

Ps. Or perhaps that kind of adapter does not work while booting? (drivers)
Think I have one here somewhere, will try tomorrow...

#35 MedEvil

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:53 PM

USB ports work fine, when used from within installed XP or from within a PE. Only booting from USB is so slow.
Interestingly my 9 year old P4 boots a lot faster, with about 4 min.

Also USB PCI cards arn't bootable. Or at least i havn't seen one that can.

:smiling9:

#36 al_jo

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 06:19 AM

Perhaps using PLoP Boot Manager could be an alternative?
http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager.html
Has built in drivers. May also be useful on old systems.

From tsetya:
“(PloP) Will provide USB 2.0 driver to BIOS.
Use PloP boot manager if you have
problem booting from USB like this example:
Very slow Windows PE loading bar.
Normal loading bar but can not load Windows 7 PE Desktop (black screen)”

#37 MedEvil

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:12 AM

I have tryed Plop in the past, it never did anything for me. Even using it on a computer, which can boot USB devices with a good speed, results in a slow down.
As a rule of thumb, i discovered, Plop gives me USB1.1 speed on USB2.0 computers and absolutely unbelievable slow speeds in the 'bytes per second' range on USB1.1 computers.
Only advantage of Plop, i can confirm so far, is that it allows to boot from add on cards. Still booting from a CD is way faster in all cases.

:cheers:

#38 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:11 AM

I have tryed Plop in the past, it never did anything for me. Even using it on a computer, which can boot USB devices with a good speed, results in a slow down.
As a rule of thumb, i discovered, Plop gives me USB1.1 speed on USB2.0 computers and absolutely unbelievable slow speeds in the 'bytes per second' range on USB1.1 computers.
Only advantage of Plop, i can confirm so far, is that it allows to boot from add on cards. Still booting from a CD is way faster in all cases.


It doesn't make sense. :cheers: :w00t:
The intended use of PLoP for USB booting is on motherboards that EITHER:
  • do not have USB boot capabilities in BIOS <- and PLoP can sometimes provide it, with an increase of functionality of roughly tan Π % ;)
  • have it but ONLY at USB 1.1 speed AND do have USB 2.0 capable speed (or in other words the actual USB bus is 2.0 capable BUT the BIOS has older 1.1 drivers for it)<- and PLoP can sometimes provide USB 2.0 speed, with an increase of functionality up to roughly 400% :cheers:
In ALL other cases like motherboards that:
  • have USB booting support in BIOS AND 1.1 chips
  • have USB booting support in BIOS AND 2.0 chips
it is pointless to attempt using it, in most (please read as "all") cases the needingly "wide range" code of PLoP will be less suited (please read as "slower") than the built-in BIOS one.

Additionally, PLoP is an ever changing project, far from stable/final, it is very likely that the specific version you tried "in the past" did not deliver what was expected from it on that particular motherboard (BTW I am NOT saying that current version will ;)).

:cheers:
Wonko

#39 MedEvil

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:53 AM

Yes i know what Plop is meant for. It just doesn't deliver for me, speed wise, on any machine i have tryed it on.
But it does provide USB boot functionality on machines, that don't have it and from add on cards.
The last i tested was version 5.08.
If i remember right, the 6.xx versions are suppose to have redesigned drivers to give better speed.

:cheers:

#40 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 01:37 PM

The last i tested was version 5.08.
If i remember right, the 6.xx versions are suppose to have redesigned drivers to give better speed.

The good news :cheers: are that you are seemingly living in the future ;):
http://www.plop.at/e...ager.html#intro

The current version is plpbt-5.0.12.zip.

The bad ones are that you remember wrong. :cheers:
The 5.0.8 that you probably tried is a very old version, more than one year old, though of course if you don't have the "right hardware for it" a newer version won't make any difference.

Sat 23/Jan/2010

Plop Boot Manager 5.0.8 released. From time to time, people ask to boot logical partitions. Now I added this feature. You can setup the logical partition in the profiles/linked partitions by pressing "l" key.


;)
Wonko

#41 MedEvil

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 03:11 PM

The good news :cheers: are that you are seemingly living in the future ;):

Ahh, now i finally know, why you always seem to lack behind. :cheers:


The 5.0.8 that you probably tried is a very old version, more than one year old,

One year ago, sounds about right.

But i guess, that it was then not the 6.xx versions, but the 5.1.xx versions, which was suppose to get the improved drivers.

;)

#42 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 05:21 PM

Ahh, now i finally know, why you always seem to lack behind. :cheers:

Naah, that is your subjective perception of it, you know, relativity theory, etc. ;).

Sometimes I do wonder whether you live in a parallel uiverse instead :w00t: and we are able to communicate (sporadically ;) ) on the board taking advantage of space/time tunnels... :cheers:

:cheers:
Wonko

#43 MedEvil

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:12 PM

Sometimes I do wonder whether you live in a parallel uiverse instead :thumbsup:

Easy way to check. I sport a beard, do you? SpockBeard2.jpg

:)

#44 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:22 PM

Easy way to check. I sport a beard, do you? SpockBeard2.jpg

Naah, I mean not as a fictional character, here is a portrait of mine during an exchange of ideas with you :):
Spoiler


:thumbsup:
...but as often happens we manage, one way or the other, to agree on something :):
Spoiler


:cheers:
Wonko

#45 MedEvil

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 09:30 PM

Apropos planning. The whole Plop discussion made me think. Shouldn't it be possible to do the same thing Plop does, just with a better/different OS/drivers?

Plop is a bootmanager and supose to fit into the MBR.
For our purposes, there is no such limit. We could do fine with a floppy sized solution.

Unfortunately i don't know, what requirement this OS would have to meet, that the loaded image could then be hooked?
Do you? (Please answer only with yes or no. :thumbsup: )

:)

#46 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 07:45 AM

Not really.
PLoP can also be chainloaded by grub4dos, as an example. (and also as - read only - DOS driver)

The good thing about good ideas :thumbsup: are that they happen to be often re-invented (by great minds) :).

Maybe you are thinking of something like :):
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=18650

And, just for the record (just to show that it actually works somehow as a "BIOS extender"):
http://reboot.pro/3890/page__st__46

:cheers:
Wonko

#47 MedEvil

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 02:31 PM

Have not much time today. Can you tell me if those links link to solutions or just maybes?

:thumbsup:

#48 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 03:40 PM

Have not much time today. Can you tell me if those links link to solutions or just maybes?


Neither.

You shouldn't mix statements with questions this way. :dubbio:

You posted a number of things:
This is a seemingly rhetorical question:

Shouldn't it be possible to do the same thing Plop does, just with a better/different OS/drivers?

To which my answer is "yes, AFAIK".

This is a statement:

Plop is a bootmanager and supose to fit into the MBR.

that is actually "wrong" :ph34r::

Not really.
PLoP can also be chainloaded by grub4dos, as an example. (and also as - read only - DOS driver)


These are statements:

For our purposes, there is no such limit. We could do fine with a floppy sized solution.

Which are "correct" :thumbsup: and need not a reply.

This, notwithstanding the final question mark:

Unfortunately i don't know, what requirement this OS would have to meet, that the loaded image could then be hooked?

appears as a statement, that I take for correct (in the sense that I am pretty sure you don't know about it :ph34r:), and thus needs no reply.

This, is a question:

Do you? (Please answer only with yes or no. )

that makes no sense and that would be pointless to reply to, whether I know

what requirement this OS would have to meet, that the loaded image could then be hooked

(whatever you mean by that :w00t:) or not it won't change anything.

This is a statement:

Have not much time today.

About which I feel sorry :( for you and hope sincerely that tomorrow you will have more time :smiling9: .

Following this:

Maybe you are thinking of something like :unsure::
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=18650


This is an otiose question:

Can you tell me if those links link to solutions or just maybes?



The essence of my previous post is, in 5 easy points:
  • PLoP is not necessarily "constrained" to the MBR(+hidden sectors :whistling: )
  • nice idea :thumbsup: (from the very little I can understand of it :confused1: )
  • the same (maybe) idea already came out :dubbio:
  • IF you could confirm that it is the same idea :unsure:, I would appreciate it as it would mean that I actually understood what yours was about (or please explain your idea in better detail)
  • Since I cannot understand exactly what you are asking about I cannot give you a "yes or no" answer, though any of them would be useless anyway.


:cheers:
Wonko

#49 MedEvil

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 05:55 PM

I hate this stupid board software. What kind of madman though it would be a good idea, to censor posts befor allowing a reply?

This is a statement:

Plop is a bootmanager and supose to fit into the MBR.

that is actually "wrong" :dubbio:

Not really.
PLoP can also be chainloaded by grub4dos, as an example. (and also as - read only - DOS driver)

Yes, i'm sure the creator of Plop has no idea, what he's talking about.
bzw. Which part of your reply is suppose to contradict that Plop was designed to fit into the MBR?

that makes no sense and that would be pointless to reply to, whether I know

what requirement this OS would have to meet, that the loaded image could then be hooked

(whatever you mean by that :confused1:) or not it won't change anything.

So i can load an image into a ramdisk with any OS and then use the image to boot XP/Win7 from it? Didn't knew that. Thought this would only be possible under certain circumstances, guess i'm wrong like usual.

# IF you could confirm that it is the same idea :dubbio:, I would appreciate it as it would mean that I actually understood what yours was about (or please explain your idea in better detail)
# Since I cannot understand exactly what you are asking about I cannot give you a "yes or no" answer, though any of them would be useless anyway.

Since i'm sure that your english is sufficient for conversation and mine is too, i can only conclude that there must be cultiral differences that keep us from understanding eachother.
Too bad.

Have a nice day!

#50 slothman

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 07:50 PM

Apropos planning. The whole Plop discussion made me think. Shouldn't it be possible to do the same thing Plop does, just with a better/different OS/drivers?

Plop is a bootmanager and supose to fit into the MBR.
For our purposes, there is no such limit. We could do fine with a floppy sized solution.

Unfortunately i don't know, what requirement this OS would have to meet, that the loaded image could then be hooked?
Do you? (Please answer only with yes or no. ;) )

:cheers:


Well I think kexec-loader is the only alternative I know of to Plop. You should be able to load memdisk as the kernel and whatever iso you want as the initrd. Keep in mind whenever I tried it it always hung on me for some reason with those stupid blinking lights on the keyboard. It probably needs to be updated.




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