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#1 pscEx

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 02:36 PM

If you look into the main WinBuilder menu entry, you see the subforums:

VistaPE, LiveXP, Win7PE, Development, MultiPE, Support, Projects, Bug Tracker, Tutorials

That is not only unlogical, that may be also discriminating or degrading projects:

VistaPE is for PE2 and the forum may contain different Vista based PE2 projects.
Win7PE is for PE3 and the forum may contain different Win7 based PE3 projects.

LiveXP is for PE1, but contains ONLY LiveXP. Several other sophisticated PE1 projects like NaughtyPE, BartPECore, or nativeEx_barebone, (dis)appear anywhere rather hidden in 'projects', 'Development' or similar.
Remember the "Spam Advertising" reaction when I mentioned "nativeEx" in the "LiveXP" forum.

Currently there is no chance for new PE1 based projects to be published anywhere else as in any "hidden" and therefore "treated as unimportant" subforum.

Because I assume that Nuno is honorous, and this name allocations are historical (and not intended) I suggest to rename the 'LiveXP' forum to XPPE or similar.

Peter

EDIT: Maybe it explains my intention a bit more:
I'm developing a new project 'nativeEx_easyPE' which I introduced here

It got only some views, inspite it would be the "That it is" for all non-ansi users.

If you post in the current "LiveXP" forum "Now able to work with non-ansi source CD", you get hundreds of views and propably tenths of questions.
(I do not want to initiate the test. I do not want to "Spam Advertise" again)

#2 Brito

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:52 PM

Hi Peter,

I'm developing a new project 'nativeEx_easyPE' which I introduced here
It got only some views, inspite it would be the "That it is" for all non-ansi users.
If you post in the current "LiveXP" forum "Now able to work with non-ansi source CD", you get hundreds of views and propably tenths of questions.

If you're getting slim to none feedback both here and also at 911CD after announcing your project to the world, then I would say that a pattern is present and that some reflection is needed.

What about considering that:
- People using Windows XP projects are giving preference to Windows 7/MultiPE projects
- That no feedback on your topic probably means little interest from the target audience
- The title "PE1 from source CD of ALL languages" is not clear about what it means (it is clear to me but you must remember that many people don't know what you're talking about)
- You could have asked me to talk about it on a newsletter as we do at each week for other projects

How would you like to see your nativeEx section called XPPE if another developer complained about its popularity?


If you want a popular project with people talking about it then there are many details that you need to consider my friend.

I can help with that, lets talk and ask people what they want to see addressed.

:)

#3 Galapo

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 01:54 AM

I suggest to rename the 'LiveXP' forum to XPPE or similar.

Hi Peter,

If that's your suggestion and Nuno thinks it a good idea to implement (personally, I don't think it is as I think it is a good idea to have a sub-forum devoted to LiveXP given its popularity), then the header will need to be modified. With what? With LiveXP and other project download links etc with introductions? Please post here with what you suggest so Nuno can evaluate: http://www.boot-land...showtopic=12390.

Regards,
Galapo.

#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 12:13 PM

Mr. Ford, Mr. Shell and President Obama back sitting around a table and actually talking? :)

http://www.boot-land...mp;#entry109801

Wonko approves of this. :D

:D
Wonko

#5 sbaeder

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 03:47 PM

Wonko approves of this. :)

Yes - good to see. But why not take Peters suggestion a bit further and have PE1, PE2 and PE3 (and maybe even PEx (for all the multi-source PE projects) and if there needs to be a sub-sub-fourm for LiveXP (and dare I say even BartPE?) then that's OK too.

I think the trade-offs are how many sub forums when browsing (levels of hierarchy) vs. the scope/breadth of any forum. This is always an issue with increased complexity. When do you decide that a given area is getting over crowded and needs to be refactored...

#6 Brito

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 05:44 PM

We already have a generic windows PE forum section: http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=90 This is the place for discussing PE modifications.

Or if people want to present a new project based on winbuilder then we have a "projects" section: http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=50

There are plenty of forums sections and they're getting seemingly empty of activity.


Historically, we assign the root of the winbuilder forum section to projects deemed as popular for a given platform. Authors need to work a lot and get undisputed right to deserve their position there, and I personally like to see them set the example for other variants to be built upon.

Changing that for the case of LiveXP and VistaPE, would not only break my word of trust that these projects would have a dedicated section to discuss them, as it would take away the merit of striving as popular projects on their own.

Even adding PE1, PE2 and so forth sections on the root of winbuilder only makes navigation harder to understand as you mention. So the other option would be moving projects that deserve their current position on the root of winbuilder onto elsewhere and that does not seem fair to me.

Besides, we already have enough projects. Would be nice to see people gathering to improve the existent ones as many of them get halted right after the original author goes away and you might as well imagine all the problems that this carries for users:
- Not supported
- No bugfixes
- No standard app scripts
- No improvements
- Broken links

So, I'm not going to change the current structure.

I say that a project's popularity can only be earned by respect and effective commitment to areas such as engineering, marketing and fan base support to keep the project rising up the charts.

It takes well more than just dropping a post or two on any given forum and hoping that flocks of people will use it.

----------------



As for a BartPE section, under which section would it be hosted? I don't really see a good fit for this section anywhere if we were to add one.

Albeit we often compete with BartPE, in good truth I should remember that 911CD forums are the official discussion site of BartPE for years and always done a superb work at that.

Even Ed_P (the administrator) showns nothing less than top-notch respect and help to all of us in Boot Land whenever we got offline.

911CD is fully centric on BartPE. Less and less people already visit the forum due to Vista/Win7 boot disks based on winbuilder and many other projects.

If we hosted a BartPE section, it would take away from 911CD even more life. To be honest, I really like 911CD since it was the first forum where I ever participated. Wouldn't like to see it gathering dust.

I don't mind including a shortcut link like the ones we see on the tutorials section. This link could point directly to 911CD.net

Just let me know at which forum section do you think that a BartPE section seems more appropriate as I really don't see one that is appropriate without being unfair to other projects hosted and fully developed by members of our community.

#7 pscEx

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:13 PM

So, I'm not going to change the current structure.

AFAIK that means what I mentioned in the first post:
VistaPE contains several Vista projects
Win7PE contains several Win7 projects.
LiveXP contains only LiveXP and does not allow other XP based projects.

Clear decision! Many thanks!

Peter

#8 Brito

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:58 PM

LiveXP contains only LiveXP and does not allow other XP based projects.

Right.. do remember that on your own forum section no other XP projects are present before you point your finger to others.. :)

You can't expect to write a post and just hope that a flock of people will rush to use your project and be forever grateful, that would be ludicrous.

Heck, you even tried a different forum website and saw that your odds of success are even slimmer outside our land. Please apologize me for saying so, but there are plenty of things wrong with your project and it pains me to see how you keep missing them.

How about you start a new topic to discuss this matter and perhaps we can bring back some life to the nativeEx section?

#9 sbaeder

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 10:19 PM

So, I'm not going to change the current structure.

I agree and it makes sense when you explain it that way.

As for a [b]
If we hosted a BartPE section, it would take away from 911CD even more life. To be honest, I really like 911CD since it was the first forum where I ever participated. Wouldn't like to see it gathering dust.

I don't mind including a shortcut link like the ones we see on the tutorials section. This link could point directly to 911CD.net

Just let me know at which forum section do you think that a BartPE section seems more appropriate as I really don't see one that is appropriate without being unfair to other projects hosted and fully developed by members of our community.

Maybe at the top of the generic WinPE forum would be a good place. I was just using that more as an example of a PE1 type of project that does have a BIG (as you also agree and mention) following even if not here - which is as it should be :)

So, if we have some sort of a links like posting in the generic WinPE forum (pinned ?) that people could post pointers/links to other projects and their goals and how to help, etc. That could help out everyone!

#10 Brito

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 10:43 PM

So, if we have some sort of a links like posting in the generic WinPE forum (pinned ?) that people could post pointers/links to other projects and their goals and how to help, etc. That could help out everyone!


Sounds good, we can try it out.

One other idea is updating the links available on the wikipedia pages as this is one of the prime places where people look for information when starting up.

If you look there, some of the older projects are mentioned but newer win7 and multiPE projects are nowhere mentioned yet:
http://en.wikipedia....ion_Environment

Or even here:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/WinBuilder

Investing more time on wikipedia pages can also help to raise more awareness to these developments.

:)

#11 sbaeder

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 06:22 PM

Sounds good, we can try it out.

One other idea is updating the links available on the wikipedia pages as this is one of the prime places where people look for information when starting up.

Funny how different people look for and at information...I never even though of wikipedia, but once you mentioned it, it was a :) going off...That might be a good thing to look into...

#12 homes32

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 01:58 AM

Sounds good, we can try it out.

One other idea is updating the links available on the wikipedia pages as this is one of the prime places where people look for information when starting up.

If you look there, some of the older projects are mentioned but newer win7 and multiPE projects are nowhere mentioned yet:
http://en.wikipedia....ion_Environment

Or even here:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/WinBuilder

Investing more time on wikipedia pages can also help to raise more awareness to these developments.

:)


updated winbuilder wikipedia to link project names with their respective Head topic or forum.




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