48 replies to this topic

[Sam7]

Hello all!

Just a short intro to say that the information and help provided here is great and that I sincerely thank the people running this place and actively posting info. Thanks so much!!

Now let me explain my situation.
So far I have been using BartPE including the Macrium Reflect plugin with my desktop runningXP SP2 . That has saved my data and OS many times.

Recently I have gotten myself a new laptop with Windows 7 Professional 64Bit on it. Having learned from BartPE I would like to be able to also have a similar setup for the laptop.

Ideally I am looking for a way to save my system partition from inside but also from outside windows to either an external drive or another partition and of course I need to be able to restore these images at later points from either inside or outside windows.

Is this done with Win7PE and what tools, scripts, plugins do you suggest me to use for this purpose? Has anyone had good experience with To Do Backup 1.1? Is it somehow possible to include Macrium Reflect Free Version with the Win7PE? What alternatives are there for disk/partition imaging backup recovery software/tools/plugins?

On my XP box I was indeed very happy with Macrium Reflect Free Version, they provided a nice plugin for BartPE and with Grub4Dos I was able to start BartPE from another partition instead of from the cd in the Grub boot loader options or select what other OS I wanted to run. Perfect, but all this I guess is a lot more complicated on Windows 7 64 Bit, yes?

It would be great if somehow I could achieve having a similar setup on the win7 laptop. I am very happy to read tutorials and instructions but before I start I need to know where to start.

Again thanks to all the great people in here. Most of my knowledge about BartPE, Grub4Dos and so I have from here so I am sure sooner or later I will be managing with Win7PE as well.

I checked the Win7RescuePE but found that the download links or server address are outdated, then I found a 2nd part but that did not help too much either as also links were outdated even though the topic being pinned (first part) and so I am not sure where to go with that and if at all I would need a RescuePE?

What is the difference between a Win7PE and the Win7RescuePE at all? Which one is used for what purpose?

Again all I am interested in a way to backup and restore system partitions from within and outside windows 7 64bit. If that is possible I will try and find out how I can run such a PE from hard disk similar to the way I did that with BartPE on the xp box.

Ok, thanks and sorry for the amount of text, I tried to keep it simple.

Edited by Sam7, 19 November 2010 - 02:29 PM.

[al_jo]

I checked the Win7RescuePE but found that the download links or server address are outdated, then I found a 2nd part but that did not help too much either as also links were outdated even though the topic being pinned (first part) and so I am not sure where to go with that and if at all I would need a RescuePE?

I'm trying to keep Win7RescuePE updated a bit, you can read more and download from here:

http://www.boot-land...mp;#entry112666

Ps. Forgot about your imaging request.
There is EASEUS Todo Backup:
http://www.boot-land...showtopic=10416
And DriveImageXML:
http://al-jo.zxq.net...ImageXml.script

[Sam7]

I'm trying to keep Win7RescuePE updated a bit, you can read more and download from here:

http://www.boot-land...mp;#entry112666

Ps. Forgot about your imaging request.
There is EASEUS Todo Backup:
http://www.boot-land...showtopic=10416
And DriveImageXML:
http://al-jo.zxq.net...ImageXml.script

Thanks for your fast reply. Much appreciated!! Will give those links a shot.

Ok, I do need a RescuePE in that case and not a normal Win7PE? What are the differences?

Besides EASEUS and DriveImage are there other imaging tools I can run from PE but also normal OS on 64Bit?

[amalux]

Personally, I use Win7PE_SE project here: http://www.boot-land...showtopic=12427

Macrium Reflect (PE plugin), Acronis, Ghost etc. all work fine from x86 PE as portables (or scripts) on Win7 x64 host, however, x64 PE is more problematic.

[Sam7]

Personally, I use Win7PE_SE project here: http://www.boot-land...showtopic=12427

Macrium Reflect (PE plugin), Acronis, Ghost etc. all work fine from x86 PE as portables (or scripts) on Win7 x64 host, however, x64 PE is more problematic.

Thanks for your reply. I think we are coming closer to what I think I might be able to achieve.

If I am correct, please correct me if I am not, you are saying that I do not really need a Win7 x64 PE because things there are more problematic to run or to get running? Is it problematic or impossible, as if it is not possible I can forget about learning how to possibly get it done, otherwise if you could point to me where it is and described how it works i will most happily give it a good reading.

However you also say that it is possible to get to run Macrium Reflect PE Plugin and Ghost for example from a Win7PE that was taken from a 32 Bit version of Windows 7?

What is the big difference if I run win 7 x64 on my system partition but use win7pe and the plugins there from a 32bit x86 version of windows 7?

What is this Win7 x64 host you talk about? Some sort of vitual machine?

Again a lot of questions that I hope to learn about similar to when this was going on with xp sp2. Thanks for your help!!

[sbaeder]

If I am correct, please correct me if I am not, you are saying that I do not really need a Win7 x64 PE because things there are more problematic to run or to get running? Is it problematic or impossible, as if it is not possible I can forget about learning how to possibly get it done, otherwise if you could point to me where it is and described how it works i will most happily give it a good reading.

In general, the differences are at the lower levels and the drivers - i.e. at the kernel of the OS level. It has to do with 64bit addressing to address more memory and also larger data structures, etc. Very similar to when X86 made jump from 16 bits to 32 bits...Lots of stuff under the covers...So it CAN be done, but since you are running a totally different OS when you boot into a PE environment, it may not be necessary...

However you also say that it is possible to get to run Macrium Reflect PE Plugin and Ghost for example from a Win7PE that was taken from a 32 Bit version of Windows 7?

YES - Exactly. You can most likely get things like this to run perfectly well and access the NTFS disk format (or even the raw disk device) just fine from a 32 bit version of the OS.

What is the big difference if I run win 7 x64 on my system partition but use win7pe and the plugins there from a 32bit x86 version of windows 7?

None really. IF you have a lot of memory, you wouldn't be able to use it all (i.e. limited to 4GB with the 32 bit OS). Since I think you said laptop, probably not an issue You just need to make sure that you are using something "new enough" to access the updated version of NTFS etc. My guess is you could probably use the older PE1 (BartPE) style and based on XP to backup and even restore the raw disk sectors...But you might as well come out of the cold

What is this Win7 x64 host you talk about? Some sort of vitual machine?

Not sure what you mean here...But maybe it is the fact that you can easily use WinBuilder on your own x64 based environment, even if you point at the source CD that is the 32 bit (i.e. x86) version. NOTE: x64 is just the generic name we give for the original AMD64 bit extensions to the x86 instruction set that Intel then also adopted...There is always a lot more churn in the basic "x86" architecture and instruction set than most people realize...

Keep asking and learning!

[al_jo]

Not sure what you mean here...

First: Why don’t you try one project and learn somethings first?
Second: Host is your machine and source is your installation DVD.
Third: What IS your source?
Fourth: If your source is 32bit, no problems. 64bit…….maybe problems.
ALL this has been discussed several times before in this forum:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=91
Search…

[Sam7]

I am impressed by your replies and have to thank you for answering all my questions. Thank you! Really!!

My latop is an intel quad i7 740qm, 8gb, nvid quadro fx1800@1gb gddr5 and 500gb hd. Came with win7 64bit and 32bit.

I think now I have understood that I can run BartPE and macrium reflect plug-in with xp 32bit as core to also backup and restore partitions with win7 64bit on it. Basically it does not matter that the PE version is 32bit and the image to be restored a 64bit, it just needs to be recognised by the laptop's hardware.

That is why I asked as I was not sure. I thought that in order to be able to do a restore I would need to have the according win7pe 64bit running, as I wanted to restore a 64bit os.

With all you dear people's replies I have learned that this is not the case and that is the key point why I guess I have not tried out the win7pe so far as I was not sure what procedure would lead me to my goal.

I guess instead of giving things a try I asked first what procedure would more likely take me to my desired result. Nevertheless I have learned a lot. Thank you all.

So the way I see it is the following.

• Format laptop's hd make 2 or more partitions and install win7 64bit.
• On another partition (z) and with grub4dos make a boot menu with either bartpe or the normal win7 64bit os as options to be selected.
• Make a bartpe with win7 32bit as source and include the macrium reflect and other plug-ins I like.
  (If this does not work then use xp 32bit as source but I think that it is ok to ue win7 32bit as source here.)
• Install that to the partition (z) and configure grub.
• Done.

However I could and probably will be wrong and learn more on the way there and I am trying to pin down what to search for exactly before I read on on valuable information that perhaps wont be needed for my goal but will help me understand that whole matter better.

I can only reassure you that I am very eager to learn about this and only sort of wanted to be able to pin down more precisely what to look for but I am sure using the forum to find out more and more about this.

I am learning and searching and I thank you all so much!!

Best regards

[Sam7]

ok it does work as outlined but getting the bartpe start from a separate primary partition on the win 7 64 bit os is a bit tricky. takes ages to load from the cd, had to include the mass storage drivers as well, ok this guide was useful to me so far but how to do this with win 7?

start bartpe from hard disk on a separate primary partition with a windows 7 64bit system, does that sound odd?

[sbaeder]

First: Why don’t you try one project and learn somethings first?
Second: Host is your machine and source is your installation DVD.
Third: What IS your source?
Fourth: If your source is 32bit, no problems. 64bit…….maybe problems.
ALL this has been discussed several times before in this forum:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=91
Search…

First off, no need to get your knickers in a knot...What *I* meant was what did virtualization have to do with things, not about host or source...

And while it's OK to remind "noobs" to search, since there is a lot out here, sometimes finding the diamond in all the chatter isn't easy...I (for one) don't mind trying to teach people that ask questions and are trying to learn...

So chill out...

[sbaeder]

My latop is an intel quad i7 740qm, 8gb, nvid quadro fx1800@1gb gddr5 and 500gb hd. Came with win7 64bit and 32bit.

So the way I see it is the following.

• Format laptop's hd make 2 or more partitions and install win7 64bit.
• On another partition (z) and with grub4dos make a boot menu with either bartpe or the normal win7 64bit os as options to be selected.
• Make a bartpe with win7 32bit as source and include the macrium reflect and other plug-ins I like.
  (If this does not work then use xp 32bit as source but I think that it is ok to ue win7 32bit as source here.)
• Install that to the partition (z) and configure grub.
• Done.

OK, not sure why you are going to put the PE environment on the the hard drive - I would start out using a USB thumb drive...

Is the purpose to image the drive at regular intervals - i.e. on the same drive, make a working image copy of the drive?

As for your statement about making the "BartPE"...you can't use the win7 source with BartPE - that is an XP based PE. also known as PE1. PE2 is vista based and PE3 is win7 based. You could either use BartPE with XP, or as I siad, play with the winbuilder projects and with something like virtual box to test the "PE" in a virtual manner, and then copy to USB, and THEN, maybe, install it on your HD.

GOOD LUCK

[amalux]

you are saying that I do not really need a Win7 x64 PE because things there are more problematic to run or to get running?

Yes.

Is it problematic or impossible, as if it is not possible I can forget about learning how to possibly get it done, otherwise if you could point to me where it is and described how it works i will most happily give it a good reading.

Every program and situation is different (and constantly changing) but for example, Macrium Reflect will fail to run in my Win7PEx64 but runs fine in my mirror Win7PEx86. Some programs will run in either build but most will run best in x86 PE.

However you also say that it is possible to get to run Macrium Reflect PE Plugin and Ghost for example from a Win7PE that was taken from a 32 Bit version of Windows 7?

Yep.

What is the big difference if I run win 7 x64 on my system partition but use win7pe and the plugins there from a 32bit x86 version of windows 7?

No big difference at all, even Win7 x64 system lets you run 32 bit programs but this a PE, self-contained and not dependent on system OS.

What is this Win7 x64 host you talk about? Some sort of vitual machine?

By 'host' I mean the machine the PE is booting to, in this case an amd64 running Win7 x64 OS.

[amalux]

I think now I have understood that I can run BartPE and macrium reflect plug-in with xp 32bit as core to also backup and restore partitions with win7 64bit on it. Basically it does not matter that the PE version is 32bit and the image to be restored a 64bit, it just needs to be recognised by the laptop's hardware.

That is why I asked as I was not sure. I thought that in order to be able to do a restore I would need to have the according win7pe 64bit running, as I wanted to restore a 64bit os.

I'm not sure where the BartPE came in, I'm running Macrium Reflect in LiveXP and Win7PE but anyway, doesn't matter.

Btw, booting ISO of LiveXP or Win7PE is easy to do from system partition, you don't need a seperate drive for this (even to backup/restore host OS)

[al_jo]

First off, no need to get your knickers in a knot...What *I* meant was what did virtualization have to do with things, not about host or source...

And while it's OK to remind "noobs" to search, since there is a lot out here, sometimes finding the diamond in all the chatter isn't easy...I (for one) don't mind trying to teach people that ask questions and are trying to learn...

So chill out...

Keep on “teaching”
Although I think ALL users of winbuilder and win7PE’s should read this before asking "baby" questions:
http://psc.boot-land...in7RescuePE.doc

Ps. I'm in the chilly snow right now...

[Sam7]

This is very interesting and has again completely overthrown my tactic... Thank you so much for helping me here. This is truly appreciated. Thanks!!

I did boot bartpe with a xp sp2 core and added the mass storage drivers and the macrium reflect plugin and that did work on the laptop, however the cd really took ages to load. So I thought running that from the hard drive might speed up the process. Then I learned that it is difficult to get bartpe xp to boot on a win7 64 os, or at least I did not find info on that so far. Next thing I thought is giving bartpecore a try to be able to keep the macrium reflect plugin. Today I come back and see that the plugin will work just fine on a normal Win7PEx86. So then this is what I am going to try.

• Get Win7PE_SE_2010_11_12 ( i hope this is the right one to get, got it from this post.
• Run a first time with win7 32 as source and burn on cd, don't have a usb stick im afraid.
  Use this tutorial on how to make a win7pe?? Are there others, I did try and search and found this one it always talks about a rescuePE so I am kinda thinking win7pe and win7rescuePE are the same?
• Then learn and try to find info on getting the macrium reflect plugin to work with the win7pe.
• Burn that, test it, if happy learn how to boot that from the laptop's drive.
• Of course also learn to tell laptop to have the win7pe as a boot option either in grub4dos or the normal microsoft boot manager, but i would of course prefer grub4dos.

So far I don't have a virtual box on my xp desktop but perhaps I should get the hang of using it. I also like to give Linux a good try and so running that from a virtual box might be an option, even though later I would love to have that next to win 7 on the laptop to be able to learn more about it. Ideally then 3 boot options, win7, pe and linux all in grub4dos on the laptop with the macrium reflect plugin working.

As the question has come up; what I use this for is to make a clean install from the os, then make a first image and get the whole pe and grub sorted either with or without an extra partition. There is 1 hd in the laptop so ideally I would have c for only the os and d for data but also user settings like for example with thunderbird's or firefox's profilemanger etc. I think giving the os 120gb should be enough and keep the rest for data on d including the latest image from the os. On an external drive I want to keep all the copies of the system images in case I like to go back to a state before I installed that little app that in fact I never used or liked without having to worry about remains being in the registry etc.

This usually happens once a month when have tested and see what I really need and what I won't need so I restore back to a clean image, install the software that I am happy and convinced with, make a new image and done. I think I am coming very much closer to getting the laptop sorted with you great people's help. Thanks so much!!

Edited by Sam7, 20 November 2010 - 01:26 PM.

[Sam7]

Ok running Win7PE SE and getting this error in Winbuilder:

Retrieve - Failed to retrieve the file version from: [%BaseDir%\Temp\Win7PE_SE\InstallWimSrc\Windows\system32\hal.dll] - File does not exist:

Got Win7PE SE, extracted it to c ran Winbuilder selected the win7 32bit dvd as source in my dvd drive h then this happened at step 3.

Searching for hal.dll did show me it was in C:\Win7PE_SE_2010_11_12\Temp\Win7PE_SE\BootWimSrc\Windows\System32 so I am changing the project title to Win7PE_SE and the place to where I extract the Win7PE_SE_2010_11_12 to Win7PE_SE as well to see if that helps.

My host machine is the xp sp2 desktop. My log file is here. Thanks for any help on this.

[al_jo]

Ok running Win7PE SE and getting this error in Winbuilder:

Retrieve - Failed to retrieve the file version from: [%BaseDir%\Temp\Win7PE_SE\InstallWimSrc\Windows\system32\hal.dll] - File does not exist:

Got Win7PE SE, extracted it to c ran Winbuilder selected the win7 32bit dvd as source in my dvd drive h then this happened at step 3.

Searching for hal.dll did show me it was in C:\Win7PE_SE_2010_11_12\Temp\Win7PE_SE\BootWimSrc\Windows\System32 so I am changing the project title to Win7PE_SE and the place to where I extract the Win7PE_SE_2010_11_12 to Win7PE_SE as well to see if that helps.

My host machine is the xp sp2 desktop. My log file is here. Thanks for any help on this.

Is yuor source un Modified?
Try extract it to your hdd
Put your log on mediafire

[Sam7]

Got past the step 3 error by ticking both options in winbuilder -> Build -> 0 -> PreConfig. Not sue if I should tick those options or not really. What are they for? Ticking both helps me get past the last error.

Next I tick them both and set source to dvd drive h with win7 32bit dvd inside and leave both "%baseDir%\Target\Win7PE_SE" and "%baseDir%\ISO\Win7Pe.iso" unchanged.

It passed step 3 and now I hang on step 4 that gives me:

DirCopy - Failed to copy directory [%BaseDir%\Temp\Win7PE_SE\BootWimSrc\users\*.*] to: [%BaseDir%\Target\Win7PE_SE\users]: + s

The source on win 7 32bit dvd came with the laptop so I guess the serial is on it already as when I install it I do not need to verify or activate it. Not sure if it is modified or not. I guess I could download one from msdsn but why when I have the dvd right here? Worked with BartPE and the cd of xp sp2 I got with the desktop just fine. Sure I will also work with this dvd. Fingers crossed.

When I extract it do I simply copy the DVD to a folder on drive c for example c:\Win732\ ?

[al_jo]

When I extract it do I simply copy the DVD to a folder on drive c for example c:\Win732\ ?

If it's not an Iso just copy the source to your C:\

[amalux]

• Get Win7PE_SE_2010_11_12 ( i hope this is the right one to get, got it from this post.
• Run a first time with win7 32 as source and burn on cd, don't have a usb stick im afraid.
  Use this tutorial on how to make a win7pe?? Are there others, I did try and search and found this one it always talks about a rescuePE so I am kinda thinking win7pe and win7rescuePE are the same?
• Then learn and try to find info on getting the macrium reflect plugin to work with the win7pe.
• Burn that, test it, if happy learn how to boot that from the laptop's drive.
• Of course also learn to tell laptop to have the win7pe as a boot option either in grub4dos or the normal microsoft boot manager, but i would of course prefer grub4dos.

1. Yes, that's the latest (still in development by ChrisR so watch for updates).
2. Nice looking tutorial but throws in unnecessary, product specific references that confuse the facts a bit. e.g.

Image for Windows (IFW) must be installed on the system which you are using to create the build.

This is not required for any backup/restore software I've used, including Macrium Reflect (unless they're talking about some licensing 'requirement').
Win7pe and Win7rescuePE are similar but not the same
3. The plugin works fine in Win7pe (x86), I run it as a portable and there's no special requirements or setup needed. I keep my portables on a removable UFD but any location should be fine except the drive you're restoring (obvious?). For example, I boot from ISO of Win7PEx86 located on C: drive (using grub menu). It loads almost instantly to desktop and I run Macrium Reflect from UFD (or any location other than C:), btw, if you want auto-run or shortcuts created on Desktop or Start menu etc. for your portables, it's easy to do. Now I can create or restore backup images of C: drive with ease (backs up my multi-boot ISO's as well).
 mrbujoy.png   158.52KB   35 downloads
4. You'll be happy
5. For easy setup, use EasyBCD: http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1

So far I don't have a virtual box on my xp desktop but perhaps I should get the hang of using it. I also like to give Linux a good try and so running that from a virtual box might be an option, even though later I would love to have that next to win 7 on the laptop to be able to learn more about it. Ideally then 3 boot options, win7, pe and linux all in grub4dos on the laptop with the macrium reflect plugin working.

it's all possible but stick to one thing at a time and don't test on VBox, VMWare etc. as it isn't a real test and tends to confuse results.

--
al_jo's right, copy contents of DVD to folder on your hard drive and use that folder as source.

[Rui Paz]

The source on win 7 32bit dvd came with the laptop so I guess the serial is on it already as when I install it I do not need to verify or activate it. Not sure if it is modified or not. I guess I could download one from msdsn but why when I have the dvd right here? Worked with BartPE and the cd of xp sp2 I got with the desktop just fine. Sure I will also work with this dvd. Fingers crossed.

When I extract it do I simply copy the DVD to a folder on drive c for example c:\Win732\ ?

Hi,

If your DVD is custom made by the laptop Manufacturer it probably won't work correctly with Winbuilder, download that one from MSDN it should work.

[amalux]

The source on win 7 32bit dvd came with the laptop so I guess the serial is on it already as when I install it I do not need to verify or activate it. Not sure if it is modified or not. I guess I could download one from msdsn but why when I have the dvd right here? Worked with BartPE and the cd of xp sp2 I got with the desktop just fine. Sure I will also work with this dvd. Fingers crossed.

Just to emphasize what Rui Paz said, an OEM source will probably not work, although my Dell Win7x86 did, most have missing files or structural issues. To be sure of success, use unmodified M$ image and copy entire content to hard drive folder.

[Sam7]

Thank you all for your input. With the modified dvd I won't be having luck. I am now getting the win 7 dvd from msdn and hope that will work out. Btw did you know that the .sdc file from msdn can be decoded and extracted with a little tool?

Don't know what your experience is with downloading from msdn but so far I have gotten kicked out of the download middle through a couple of times. Seems like on has to actively keep the connection or log in to the site alive while the download is running. Getting the direct download links from msdn was not hard but there again middle way through it keeps stalling. Any idea's on that? Every other down and upload work fine as always, generally not having a good experience similar to akamai's downloader.

Will report back once first tests are done with win 7 x86 from msdn with winbuilder and the win7pe project.

While the downloads keep going where can I read about getting the Macrium Reflect plugin to work with Win7PE? Searching...

[Sam7]

edit: sorry that tool i was talking about above does not work, anyhow the downloads are done and ready for first building.

should I refer to this manual: http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=7250?

will that work with winbuilder 080?

or is this manual better? http://www.paraglide...cts/win7pe.html ?

also I am confused a bit, the project is called win7pe but when I download it from inside winbuilder with this project server win7pe.winbuilder.net/Projects it downloads the multi7pe, is that the right one? why are they not called the same?

perhaps someone has a good link to a step to step tutorial I have not found?

update:
ok I managed to download the Win7PE_SE Release but I did not manage to find an up to date tutorial on that. after a couple of tries I got through step 3 and 4 and then it told me something about my system being incompatible with the build or so. Crashed the desktop and lost the log file.

What am I doing wrong? My source is the msdn win7 pro x86 on host xp pro sp2 trying to get a win7pe done. Well at least I got past 3 and 4. Thanks for any help on this.

Edited by Sam7, 23 November 2010 - 01:05 AM.

[Sam7]

seems like I have the wrong waik version. for a xp host machine one needs Windows Vista SP1 aik and not win 7 aik. ? also having KB926044 does help.

that is possibly also why hal.dll could not be found on unmount. hope this helps.

does the language version of waik matter? can one use a german version waik with a english win7 source or do they have to have the same languages? both my win7 and waik are german. should they be english for winbuilder to work?

update:
tried with the vista sp1 waik and KB926044 but not much change, either I get regedit.exe not found or invalid command or the hal.dll could not be retrieved.

any help at this point is much appreciated as I am sure I have an unmodified source now and think that I am doing the other steps correctly. a hint would be great.

Edited by Sam7, 23 November 2010 - 02:42 AM.