LiveXP on a 64bit system,, any others having these issues..
#1
Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:19 AM
OK. .So,, ive been working with some LiveXP builds.. I have done LiveXP from Amalux, UBCD4Win, HawkPE, and a few others.. I currently have a laptop with win7 home premium 64bit... running a core i7 64bit processor..
I ve installed the builds and tested them in VMware... all works in this environment.. when i install on my USB and boot to it.. this is when i run into issues..
The liveXP's will load, i can select whatever they need to boot to (UBCD4win select 1 for liveXP) the others just select start LiveXP etc.. they start loading.. they go to the Windows Loading Screen (Winbuilder LiveXP for AMalux's), UBCD4Win goes to windows then goes away and then goes to the WindowsPE loading screen etc... well once they all get to this point. the screen goes blank like its about to load into the next part and they just hang.. ive let them sit there for hours to test at times and always the same.. they dont load..
Well after testing with Amalux project, i nocited it builds a HDD Boot folder with some files.. one of them is the NTdetect, NTLDR and some others.. well, i already had these files on there before as someone recommended trying it and i was still getting the aboive issues.. well i copied over these again (as a test) and i overwrote any of them that Amalux's was newer than.. well I can get his LiveXP too finally boot to windows.. I "Think" it was one of the NT files that i recopied that got it working.. so i did a quick test with UBCD4WIN (i think, or HawkPE, or one of the others, cant recall) but I still got the same issue of loading to blank screen and hanging.. so,, it fixed issue with AMalux's but not the rest..
Can anyone think of why? Is it possible that i am having the issue due to loading these PE's that are 32bit onto a 64bit processor?? Amalux said he had seen/heard of some of these issues before and only seems to be with XP versions.. seems like win7 PEs seem to be ok if using 32bit..
So, i figured would post this to see if any others having same probs and this way can all get help..
As a side one (since not vista forum).. I am having a similar issue with a VistaPE.. this one does its loading.. has the bar go across saying "Loading windows Files' and when it gets to the end.. it just hangs there.. wont go into PE environment.. even left it going all night.. still notaa.. but it works fine in my VMware environment.. so just wondered again if the 32bit on my 64bit processor again..
Thanks..
Zug
#2
Posted 03 September 2010 - 05:09 PM
Nice to see you here in the forum, just to back up your findings, I have now tested LiveXP and W7PEX 32-bit in a variety of host OS environments and can report the following results.
Test machine: hp Pavilion a810n - AMD64 Athlon
Host OS: XPx32 - XPx64 - W7x32 - W7x64
LiveXP (rec-rar): OK - FAIL - OK - FAIL
W7(PEX) 32-bit: OK - OK - OK - OK
FAIL means hangs at logon/bootscreen, never gets to desktop
Both LiveXP and W7PE's built from 32-bit sources. Is this known, expected behavior or something additional required in build or? The obvious conclusion from this (limited) test is that 32-bit W7 PE handles 64-bit host better than (32-bit) LiveXP but I fail to understand how or why this would be. How does the host OS affect PE being booted? Remember, this is tested on same hardware, only OS changed for tests. More information is required, hopefully others can add their experiences to get a better idea of what's happening here.
#3
Posted 03 September 2010 - 05:21 PM
The PE is built by WinBuilder (same scripts at all) using the OS (possibly different behaviour processing the scripts).How does the host OS affect PE being booted?
Billy the door introduced several nice features. One of them is redirection.
Depending on your host OS maybe even cmd.exe is run from different directories.
Lancelot did already a lot of improvements to catch (all) the redirection issues. Maybe not (all) are found. And maybe there are still some issues in the (nativeEx) core of LiveXP.
Perhaps we should start a developer's 'Improve WOW' topic (in defcon).
Peter
#4
Posted 03 September 2010 - 05:33 PM
This is good information to be aware of for testing but in this case, both PE's used for tests were built on a different machine (than one used for testing) running XP SP2 x86 using same 32-bit sources respectively, Win7 32-bit for W7PE and XP SP2 32-bit for LiveXP.The PE is built by WinBuilder (same scripts at all) using the OS (possibly different behaviour processing the scripts).
Billy the door introduced several nice features. One of them is redirection.
Depending on your host OS maybe even cmd.exe is run from different directories.
Lancelot did already a lot of improvements to catch (all) the redirection issues. Maybe not (all) are found. And maybe there are still some issues in the (nativeEx) core of LiveXP.
Perhaps we should start a developer's 'Improve WOW' topic (in defcon).
Peter
#5
Posted 03 September 2010 - 05:33 PM
Can you explain what you're doing here, you're taking the NTdetect and NTLDR from HddBoot folder and copying them where? Which existing files are you overwriting? Also, let's leave the VM tests out of the mix as it only confuses things; we're only talking about tests/results on real hardware as the VM is a seperate issue entirelyWell after testing with Amalux project, i nocited it builds a HDD Boot folder with some files.. one of them is the NTdetect, NTLDR and some others.. well, i already had these files on there before as someone recommended trying it and i was still getting the aboive issues.. well i copied over these again (as a test) and i overwrote any of them that Amalux's was newer than.. well I can get his LiveXP too finally boot to windows.. I "Think" it was one of the NT files that i recopied that got it working.. so i did a quick test with UBCD4WIN (i think, or HawkPE, or one of the others, cant recall) but I still got the same issue of loading to blank screen and hanging.. so,, it fixed issue with AMalux's but not the rest..
#6
Posted 03 September 2010 - 10:37 PM
As far as I understand
Zuq have no issue building LiveXP on x64 host, Amalux have issues.
Zuq issue starts when making LiveXP boot on a ufd stick... but than Zuq success after adding some more files to ufd and thinks it is related to building with hostosx64.
@Zuq
My guess is your issue not hostosx64 related, following my guesses in my magic ball :
I guess you are making a LiveXP-bootsdi build, and I guess you transfer files (not bootsdi.img but i386 etc. folders and files) to ufd. (ufd=usb flash disk)
And when you also copy some files to ufd (NTdetect, NTLDR..) you see bootup occurs successfully.
If my guesses so far okey,
Reason behind is, these file(s) are patched, when you were using unpatched version of these files previously on ufd, LiveXP boot was failing, when you replace success. Well no surprise failing with ubcd boot with livexp patched file.
(ps: patch assures systemroot folder be i386 )
Anyway,
There are easier ways
One of easiest is:
prepare ufd to have grub4dos as bootmanager.
than with bootsdi builds, copying LiveXP_RAM.iso to root of ufd (+contig LiveXP_RAM.iso file), adding following to menu.lst
title LiveXP_RAM.iso - direct find --set-root /LIVEXP_RAM.ISO map /LIVEXP_RAM.ISO (hd32) map --hook chainloader (hd32)makes wheels turns easly
* patched files inside .iso file * tidy ufd organisation * one can easly add other pe1/2/3 builds to ufd.
about VistaPE:
Well, better to ask respective VistaPE project topic (sticky topics at top here , Leopard or VistaPE-Capi) , I have not made VistaPE boot on ufd for a loooong while now.
#7
Posted 03 September 2010 - 10:38 PM
As you know since I came boot-land (well I came because of LiveXP ), I am making all (%99.99) my LiveXP builds with XPx64 host (also made number of ufd boots), It is shocking to me you have failure on boot.
Let me clearly understand:
You make a livexp createiso build (buildA) with hostos XPx64, It boots fine with emulators ? but it fails booting with real cd on real pc-1 (let me call pc-1)?
You make a livexp createiso build (buildA) with hostos XPx86, It boots fine with emulators ? and it is ok booting with real cd on real pc-1?
(real cd - can be ufd too, and if so which method you use with ufd)
Well understanding the situation will help to catch,
Besides in anycase I will provide a mini test package tomorrow (when I get home) to easly compare results of your build with mine on hostosXPx64 using xpsp2enu source (or xpsp3enu , whatever you prefer ).
#8
Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:47 PM
Thanks for replies.. ok to start answering a few of these questions.
@Amalux
Can you explain what you're doing here, you're taking the NTdetect and NTLDR from HddBoot folder and copying them where? Which existing files are you overwriting?
Ok.. to clarify on this:
I currently am using a UFD that I am using as a Sardu+Grub4dos. It is set up to boot and what not.. On some of the items in there, it already some of the items that your liveXP builder puts into the hddboot folder.. In the hddboot folder you have Glrdr, a livexp.wim, menu, ntdetect, ntldr, pe.drive, and winnt.sif of these files.. my UFD already had GLRDR, NTDETECT, NTLDR... i copied all of those files over except the menu and livexp.wim... i ended up replaceing the already had GLRDR, NTDEtect and ldr.. after adding all of those files and replacing those 3.. my LiveXP form your builder was able to boot.. the only issue was the already explained un-ability to connect to my network card or wlan... so, i am currently trying to rebuild and testing some other things... So, this is waht i meant when saying i copied over and replaced... explained better??
@Lancelot,
I have had issues with the actual building on my Hostx64, so far out of 5 tries, only 1 has succeeded in building.. little issues towards end of naming etc for the file and it errors out and stops.. But, for the 1 build that worked.. the above post is what happened.. As for your Grub COde.. that is the exact code that I am already using.. The created LiveXP.ISO file that winbuilder created is what I copied over to my UFD... inside the hddboot folder is the livexp.wim file... does the created ISO "look" for this .wim file at all as it boots from my UFD?? my UFD is already prepared with the grub4dos for the bootmanager as well. how i have it working for the sardu and g4d build..
As for the ntdetect and ntldr, for the UBCD4WIn i copied those 2 files from the source that i used to create that livexp... and it still fails in live with the hanging issue.. and with the 2 files copied over from the winbuilder build its the same thing... any ideas on that??
i guess another question might be which "creation_iso" part for the build do i want?? there is the 3 options in there.. the 3 in there is a Wimboot? a ISO, and the 3rd is a wim iso? i think.. correct me if I am wrong.. sorry as i have it currently creating another build so i cant verify the 3 names.. i know Wimboot and ISO are 2 just cant recall the 3rd.. anyway.. when mine loads, wimboot is the default as it says it makes the iso and also oen for loading to ufd.. which i guess is that hddboot with teh .wim file.. although this isnt the route that i am taking as I am using that code Lancelot posted and using the .iso file.. WHen i did a remake using the option for Create ISO (think only does an iso) this build failed right at the freaking end.. something about naming file error and gave me another error about something not there..
For my UFD , is the wimboot the option i want and then take that ISO that it creates?? like i said, was finally able to boot after addin the files over from the hddboot folder, just no lan or wlan connectivity.. and it wouldnt allow me to add the drivers myself even though i could direct it to the specific folder on my internall hdd with the driver.. So, 1 test I am trying now is that I backed up all my druviers with the Smart Driver Backup and then will try and access that in the build if it still fails..
Zug
So, the Nt
#9
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:07 AM
@Amalux
As you know since I came boot-land (well I came because of LiveXP ), I am making all (%99.99) my LiveXP builds with XPx64 host (also made number of ufd boots), It is shocking to me you have failure on boot.
Let me clearly understand:
You make a livexp createiso build (buildA) with hostos XPx64, It boots fine with emulators ? but it fails booting with real cd on real pc-1 (let me call pc-1)?
You make a livexp createiso build (buildA) with hostos XPx86, It boots fine with emulators ? and it is ok booting with real cd on real pc-1?
(real cd - can be ufd too, and if so which method you use with ufd)
Well understanding the situation will help to catch,
Besides in anycase I will provide a mini test package tomorrow (when I get home) to easly compare results of your build with mine on hostosXPx64 using xpsp2enu source (or xpsp3enu , whatever you prefer ).
Well, not quite but that crystal ball of yours is pretty good
I'll be more specific and let's set the emulators aside as they just confuse things. I'm only referring to booting real hardware (hp Pavilion a810n - AMD64 Athlon) from single iso CD's created (all) on a 32-bit host running XP SP2. The two test CD's are as follows:
1) LiveXP (latest archive from Galapo's link above) untouched except for changing to WimBoot script (and adding required files); using full-retail XP SP2 x86 source.
2) W7PEX (128) using full-retail Win7 (ult) x86 source. W7 type build doesn't matter since it isn't the problem, I assume wimb's or other would perform as well.
Where the test machine (same in each test) is running 32-bit OS (XP or Win7), both W7PEX and LiveXP boot normally. Where test machine is running 64-bit OS (XP or Win7), W7PEX boots fine but LiveXP fails.
Are we clear so far?
Question: why can 32-bit W7 PE boot 64-bit host but 32-bit LiveXP can't? Is this 'normal' behavior? Is this true of of other machines? I only have the one 64-bit machine to test right now and need to get feedback from others
#10
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:18 AM
Where the test machine (same in each test) is running 32-bit OS (XP or Win7), both W7PEX and LiveXP boot normally. Where test machine is running 64-bit OS (XP or Win7), W7PEX boots fine but LiveXP fails.
Are we clear so far?
Question: why can 32-bit W7 PE boot 64-bit host but 32-bit LiveXP can't? Is this 'normal' behavior? Is this true of of other machines? I only have the one 64-bit machine to test right now and need to get feedback from others wink.gif
2 questions come to mind from above..
1. In testing those,,how are you booting them, is it via a CD or is it via a UFD? if it is UFD, are you doing the grub menu and have those files like i added to the UFD?
2. Which OS are you using for the 32 and 64bit testing? is it XP or 7 ?? My "guess" is that if you are using win7 for the test.. the files for booting your host OS are there and helping load the win7 32 and 64bit.. where as loading the liveXP it is not the right folders.. if im correct in thinking, isnt it those ntdect/ntldr for the XP and then win7/vista uses just that bootmgr ?? sorry, i know im not 100% sure.. but after a lot of reading on this to build it.. that is what it had looked like to me..
So, i think that could be why the 7 works and the XP doesnt.. but if you are using XP OS as your test machine, then well, no clue on that part.. would think the liveXP would work and the win7 one wouldnt in that case..
#11
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:21 AM
Do LiveXP boot on the system if you use CreateISO or BootSDI (perhaps isolating WimBoot as the issue)?
Thanks,
Galapo.
#12
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:26 AM
first of all:
Amalux LiveXP package is a package heavly tested and made ready by Amalux with some options to ease end user's experience, I love Amalux's package and fully support as much as I can, besides keep in mind Amalux's package does not represent current LiveXP status. I believe Amalux will update the package in ~2 weeks with new scripts and again with his fully reliable tests. (King Amalux)
As far as I remember from my old tests, wimboot script is old on amalux's package which has some missing improvments for hostosx64.
From LiveXP server, here is latest wimboot script
http://galapo.net/li.../WimBoot.script
backup WimBoot.script you have and than overwrite with the one from LiveXP server.
I guess this will solve wimboot build issues on your hostosx64 and maybe others too.
Make a trial, make your build with this new WimBoot.script, copy LiveXP_Wim.iso to your ufd, try to boot LiveXP_Wim.iso with grub4dos. Lets see what will happen?
*
for UBCD4WIn , check UBCD4Win and BartPE forums to find out various methods to make them ready to boot with ufd. do not mix ntldr etc. from LiveXP builds for them .
#13
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:43 AM
yeh, i love his package so far as well.. but, i didnt want to change the creation type just yet til lwas sure how to do..
DO i want to use the wimboot, createISO, or BootSDI if I am going to add it to UFD and use that Grub command?? i havent tried the Boot SDI one yet.. but last time i tried the Create ISO.. it got all the way to the end and then FAILED .. i got 2 errors.. 1 had something to do with something missing or somthing, (was a few builds ago so i forgot) and the 2nd was something about unable to name.. i think said something along the lines of converting bytes ... and couldnt create the naming for %isosize% or something like that ;( .. so i went back to the wimboot build option..
i had 1 wimboot build and the iso booted to a corrupted wimsyf file or something like that and wouldnt load the then i re did it.. and this is the current one that completed that I will test..
I will save this one and make another with the new script you gave and let you know..
thanks again
#14
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:44 AM
I see post 9-10-11 after replying post 8, what a fast night .
@Amalux
Yes we are clear now.
Big thanks for the Smile in my faceWell, not quite but that crystal ball of yours is pretty good
* no this is not 'normal' behaviour.Question: why can 32-bit W7 PE boot 64-bit host but 32-bit LiveXP can't? Is this 'normal' behavior? Is this true of of other machines? I only have the one 64-bit machine to test right now and need to get feedback from others
* I use Intelcore2duo2ghz , XPx64 on primary partition and boot fine from ufd so far with createiso and bootsdi (but wimboot not tested).
* Best to follow Master Galapo's advice first before poping up ideas.
#15
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:51 AM
just see your post
this one mostly occurs when you forgot emulator open from your previous build ..naming for %isosize% or something like that
For the other one, maybe this is about settings of amalux's package. What is the name of file (amalux package file name, ....zip ??) you are using ????
#16
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:52 AM
#17
Posted 04 September 2010 - 12:57 AM
I am using lx78sp6cxw build..
i havent saved a base one yet as i havent had a proper build yet..
so, havent ran emulator.. should i select that when doing builds nad try the CreateISO one again?
sorry, this is my 2nd day messing with this.. so am still "newb" at what I am doing with this..
also.. trying to figure out how to do that script u linked.. do i just open and copy/paste to notead and save it as the WimBoot.script and find it and replace.. or is there an ability in his build to DL that script?? clicking on your link just opens it in a window as if im viewing in notepad
#18
Posted 04 September 2010 - 01:07 AM
right click on it, and select "save as" .also.. trying to figure out how to do that script u linked
Give me some time to dl and give you an instruction.I am using lx78sp6cxw build..
@amalux
happy dinner time with family :>. (if "create iso" success it will be enough i guess....)
#19
Posted 04 September 2010 - 01:22 AM
here my connection betrayed me. My dl speed 14 KB/sec saying 2 hours to go, I deeply missed my home connection now .... I have to sleep. Follow King Amalux and Master Galapo in following posts.Give me some time to dl and give you an instruction.
See you later
#20
Posted 04 September 2010 - 09:59 AM
I pretty much did that and replaced the wimboot.script that i found in his project.. not sure if what happend is supposed to, but here is what happend..
After replacing the script, when i open the builder now it creates a second FINISH folder under the other finish.. In the older finish 2 Create ISO there is just the Boot SDI and Create ISO. In the new folder, it has just 2 Create ISO with the new WimBoot.script.. the file is in the same folder as the old one.. any reason it would create this new folder? i am going to attempt to upload the log for the new build that it did when i used this new script.. the ISO wont even load now.. though it did "complete" even though it had errors.. usually it wont even complete if there was an error.. appears the error was during the benchmark or which ever test it was doing.. I did select the emulation tab this time and selected VMWare, and that errored as well when it tried to load it as it wanted to load from C:VMware instead of where its default install is at C:Program files x86\VMWare
Edit: k.. link didnt work,, will find a site
K uploaded it to HERE let me know if doesnt work
Zug
#21
Posted 04 September 2010 - 10:38 AM
The 2 "finish" folders, there is no problem with that. I too have come across such a scenario with 2 audio driver folders or 2 application folders. The most important is the ecript which umust choose.
If i added an extra application script or a additional, audio driver script i too had 2 folders. And all scripts from both similar folders will load depending on which script u rick(check mark). So about the 2 folders is no problem.
Maybe not much of help , but just though of sharing it with u what i had experienced.
#22
Posted 04 September 2010 - 11:12 AM
"
Reason i wondered on that was because in the origional Finish folder is the "emulation" folder/command after the origional Create ISO folder.. the reason i was thinking it could be issue is due to if you have the emulator folder checked off, i would think it would try and run that before it would run the script for the WimBoot because the new wimboot is after that emulation command in the tree order.. that why i wondered if it would cause an issue..
#23
Posted 04 September 2010 - 01:58 PM
U culd just try like this : Just remove tick mark from the "1st Create Image folder" (so boot sdi option & Create ISO option " will be disabled.
Next Remove tick mark from the emulation folder also (it will therefore not make any emulation in VMWare).
Now only tick mark the "Second Finish folder " where i am assuming u have only one script : ie the new wimboot script. So if my assumption is correct u will be using the new wimboot script without using the boot sdi option & Create ISO option (which are present in the first finish folder, u will not be using this). Also u will not be using the emualtion for VMWare. This way u can test ur new wimboot script even if it is in the second finish folder and do not have any problems with the emulation scripts running before the new wimboot script.
PS:@ Lancelot
Didnt know where to thank u personally, so am just adding thses 2 lines here to thank u for the pagesetup script v 6, which i am assuming will allow the pagesetup to be loaded auto when live xp starts
#24
Posted 04 September 2010 - 02:25 PM
hehe, I am at home now, but I forgot my ufd
anyway, lets begin with a simple test .
download following midi livexp package
http://www.mediafire...d6j8a8c0u7fgmtk
extract to C:\
make your build, in the end of the build you should see qEmu booting LiveXP successfully.
After that, copy C:\LiveXP_200100904_Midi\ISO\LiveXP.iso to the root of your ufd
add following to menu.lst
title LiveXP.iso mem (0xFF) find --set-root /LIVEXP.ISO map --mem /LiveXP.iso (0xFF) map --hook chainloader (0xFF)
let's see if it boot okey there ? after that..... coming soon
ps: I know I know I named wrong 200100904
@Zug & fms
sorry for confusions, as I wrote to fms on a different topic this misorganisation will be fixed after King Amalux update packages. Be patient, Making very reliable packages takes quite time.
Meanwhile, As a shortcut: when you copy a script from LiveXP to current amalux packages,
for Finish scripts: open scripts with notepad, find and change Level=7 line to Level=8
example with wimboot:
[Main]
Title=WimBoot
Class=ISO
Type=script
Level=8
...
======>
[Main]
Title=WimBoot
Class=ISO
Type=script
Level=7
....
after restarting winbuilder, things will be organised as expected.
(again reminding, this modifications will not be needed on next amalux package)
@fms
there is no mismatch on driver or application scripts, on both amalux packages and current livexp, application Level=5 , driver Level=6 (it is that way for ages). Can you provide a link (or file) of the scripts ("audio driver" , application ...) where you get difficulty.
ps: Correct, happy testing
#25
Posted 04 September 2010 - 02:35 PM
There was misunderstandg.
Nothing is wrong with the Amalux package.....it works perfectly for me. I was just informing Zug about an "scenario" which i came across. In that "scenario" it was not bcos of Amalux's package that i got 2 folders. It was bcos i added some scripts to the winbuilder program which i got from other sources. Amalux package worked fine for me. It was just that i had also 2 folders of the same name (type) just like zug has now. But that was my doing, not bcos of Amalux package. So i was just tryg to tell Zug that according to what i tested when i had those 2 similar folders, was that it didnt make much difference having 2 similar folders when i tested it. It still worked okay for me.
Hope i have clarified what i meant
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