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Linux discussion board needed


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#1 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:29 PM

Like we have a board called "Windows Support" (http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=85), is there any forum in boot-land dedicated to Linux boot problem & debugging? If not, I request the moderators to start one.

#2 Nuno Brito

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:46 PM

It's a bit hidden but we do have one:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=70

Historically, most members are Windows users and we focus on Microsoft technology.

Over the past times, Linux users have increased indeed. Would this be enough to justify the relevance of a linux support section on the forum?

#3 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:57 PM

It's a bit hidden but we do have one:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=70

Historically, most members are Windows users and we focus on Microsoft technology.

Over the past times, Linux users have increased indeed. Would this be enough to justify the relevance of a linux support section on the forum?


Of course, why not? While discussing on Windows, we always have to be aware about staying within the bound of copyright infringement laws. We are not always authorized to share everything for the sake of community ethics. There are so many Linux users scattered around the globe & starting up a board, at least on an experimental basis, will help to extend the reach of our community. BTW, I'll start my own thread under the abovementioned board as par your instruction. Thank u sir.

#4 Nuno Brito

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 03:12 PM

Your arguments are perfectly valid.

But living with constraints is a rule of life.

Achieving a legal and efficient solution within so many constraints is also what many consider as a work of art in the true sense of the word.

The authors of these solutions, either software developers or dedicated hobbyists - have reached the opportunity of becoming artists and make available something of value to many others due to these constraints that were challenged.

We've lived with these rules since the inception of this community, there's a lot of fun involved in the path to reach success on a given challenge.

---

However, if more linux users are around the forum then let there be a Linux support section.

:smiling9:

#5 pscEx

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 04:10 PM

Not for 100%, but rather seriously:

Could we invert the suggestion? :cheers:

I never liked to work under UNIX / AIX, inspite I often had to do because of my projects. In the very beginning there was only one cmd line editor (My brain suppressed the word, but there is something like 'VI' :smiling9:) with cryptic commands. Whenever I had to use it, I opened my money box, got the small piece of paper with the commands ...
And for me LINUX is only "A free and better UNIX".

And, as a friend (or better as a victim) of Billy the Door since DOS 2.0, my suggestion:

In LINUX forums there are often very good tools for manipulating MBR, PBR, Disk Images, etc., often with source code.

Why not create a section "Linux to Windows discussion board needed"? :(

Peter

#6 Nuno Brito

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 04:26 PM

"Linux to Windows"?

This could be a sub-section of Linux support in that case. Don't see any inconvenient in placing both available.

Being a new user to Linux/Ubuntu/OSX, I actually see a brighter picture under these OS's.

Never had to use vim and I already twist my nose whenever in need of using "nano" to edit some text file from command line.

Give me the good old edit.com text editor at any given day of the week to replace the dreaded nano and see me happy. Perhaps we should also have a "Windows to Linux" section? :smiling9:

(nuno is now browsing to see if there is a edit.com equivalent for linux..)

#7 pscEx

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 04:30 PM

Maybe you did not understand my first line correctly (sorry about my English)

I just wanted to joke a bit ...

Peter

#8 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 04:40 PM

Why are fighting for Windows -> Linux or vice versa? These *NIX systems are on earth since before the inception of Windows. What's the problem to have a dedicated section on our forum. As PSC has pointed out that there are sometimes more efficient & free tools available alongwith source codes to administer the system better. And hobbyists form a major portion of this forum. *NIX systems are better to understand a system better.

#9 Nuno Brito

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 05:11 PM

What's the problem to have a dedicated section on our forum

Hobbyists form a large part of the forum but that doesn't mean they are linux fans, you can start a poll to ask other members what OS they use and see the results: http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=37

Historically, Linux has never been popular around Boot Land and going against this tendency would serve the purposes of Linux, a noble cause - but would it really help the community?

Like Peter said, there are plenty of good forums to discuss each linux distribution but we've never hosted discussions for linux-based boot disk projects around here due to lack of interest from members.

Our only concern is avoid creating new sections that only serve to gather dust with one or two topics that end up cluttering the forum in the years to come.

It's not a Windows -> Linux thing, if it was then I'd say that Windows systems were on Earth far before the inception of Linux and that Microsoft itself was the pioneer that made Unix popular and available to hobbyists with the development of Xenix back in the 80's. Unix for the masses.. :(

Posted Image


Posted Image
---

But back on topic, I see no harm in a Linux support section. I'm just worried about the lack of activity within.

:smiling9:

#10 Mikorist

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:38 PM

Linux thing.......Xenix back in the 80's. Unix for the masses.. :(


Linux is thnig - that is a good description :D

:smiling9:

XENIX used ideas from UNIX

SINIX used ideas from XENIX

MINIX used ideas from SINIX

LINUX used ideas from MINIX

There was a line of connection between Unix, Xenix, Sinix, Minix and, finally, Linux.

From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)

Newsgroups: comp.os.minix

Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?

Summary: small poll for my new operating system

Message-ID&#58; <1991Aug25.205708.9541@klaava.Helsinki.FI>

Date&#58; 25 Aug 91 20&#58;57&#58;08 GMT

Organization&#58; University of Helsinki





Hello everybody out there using minix -



I&#39;m doing a &#40;free&#41; operating system &#40;just a hobby, won&#39;t be big and

professional like gnu&#41; for 386&#40;486&#41; AT clones.  This has been brewing

since april, and is starting to get ready.  I&#39;d like any feedback on

things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat

&#40;same physical layout of the file-system &#40;due to practical reasons&#41;

among other things&#41;.



I&#39;ve currently ported bash&#40;1.08&#41; and gcc&#40;1.40&#41;, and things seem to work.

This implies that I&#39;ll get something practical within a few months, and

I&#39;d like to know what features most people would want.  Any suggestions

are welcome, but I won&#39;t promise I&#39;ll implement them &#58;-&#41;



			   Linus &#40;torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi&#41;



PS.  Yes - it&#39;s free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.

It is NOT protable &#40;uses 386 task switching etc&#41;, and it probably never

will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that&#39;s all I have &#58;-&#40;.

Because it's free of any MINIX code,

LINUX is not MINIX...

Unix??....Xenix??....Sinix??....Minix ??

Megamix ???

Linus never published any description of the internals of the kernel.

We don't know what the LINUX is... :cheers:

:)


I still don't know what the LINUX is ......:(

#11 Icecube

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:42 PM

Historically, Linux has never been popular around Boot Land and going against this tendency would serve the purposes of Linux, a noble cause - but would it really help the community?

Like Peter said, there are plenty of good forums to discuss each linux distribution but we've never hosted discussions for linux-based boot disk projects around here due to lack of interest from members.

Most of the time Linux isn't very visible. In the grub4dos forum section there a questions about how to boot several linux based tools, like antivirus rescue CDs. Most of the users that ask those questions, don't know that they are Linux based.

#12 pscEx

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 06:55 PM

In the grub4dos forum section there a questions about how to boot several linux based tools, like antivirus rescue CDs. Most of the users that ask those questions, don't know that they are Linux based.

:smiling9:
I did not ask for some help in those cases, but exactly my (fool) experience!

Peter

#13 Nuno Brito

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 08:00 PM

Yes, I agree with your arguments Icecube.

Would indeed be nice to give a more proper place to host linux discussions.

As a side note, one of the things that would really make me happy would be hosting the discussions for a linux based boot disk around here as well. Already tried talking with the developer of CloudUSB (http://cloudusb.net) but no dice.

If you see any good candidates, feel free to invite them to use our forum.

:smiling9:

#14 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:09 AM

I give up. No need to start a poll as the result is quite visible from the discussions in this thread.

#15 Nuno Brito

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:34 AM

I give up

Don't give up, you've already convinced me to add a Linux support section, that's a victory.. :D

The poll was just a suggestion and Icecube also made a good point about the support already given to linux users at the grub4dos section.

One thing you'll notice around here is that you'll always find people defending either sides of any discussion. It doesn't mean we can't be civilized or try our best to find good arguments.

In order for an idea or intention to survive, it has to endure some level of constructive criticism. It's a good practice to understand the possible outcomes and consequences of each decision.

:smiling9:

#16 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:39 AM

Don't give up, you've already convinced me to add a Linux support section, that's a victory..


A last solution that I can come up with is to add an experimental Linux support section & if the response is not upto the mark, which, in turn, can be measured in terms of number of posts made & topics started, then we can close it after a trial of say, a couple of months. Thus, our forum will not be cluttered any more with redundant boards. U can think of it.

#17 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:47 AM

I give up. No need to start a poll as the result is quite visible from the discussions in this thread.


No, you don't give up, you didn't even start to fight for this noble cause.

I want to be more pragmatic, we already have a Linux oriented place aimed to booting:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=70
existing mainly because the n Linux oriented boards and distro-makers largely completely fail to provide meaningful information about booting them in any situation they didn't think of.

And a Windows Support one divided in these sub-forums:
  • Windows 3x/9x
  • Windows 2K/XP/2003
  • Windows Vista / 2008
  • Windows 7
  • Windows PE
  • Unattended Installs
  • Hardware compatibility / drivers
We have basically 4 "families" of Windows+a couple specific sub-forums.

How would you divide the "hypothetical" Linux support Forum? Along the items listed here?
http://en.wikipedia....x_distributions
(remember that EACH or nearly each of those have already a dedicated forum, often connected with the actual Authors/Manatainers of the Distro)
And of course:
  • File
(anything in Linux/Unix is a file) :)

Basically there are two main "families" of "Linux only" users:
  • good, tranquil, competent ones. :D
  • integralists :(


    As well there are two main families of "mixed" Windows/Linux users:
  • good, tranquil, often competent users that use one or the other OS as they see better fit (both on work or in their free time) :(
  • collectors, people that don't have any idea of how Linux works, nor how to build one or use it, the only satisfaction they have is to have one more distro bootable - most of the time with exactly the same tools another ten distro's they have and that they - as well - don't know how to use :smiling9:

People belonging to groups #1, #2, and #3 have NO problem whatsoever in finding the support they may eventually need on the forum of the particular distro(s) they use.
Group #1 can find what they need elsewhere (on the appropriate, dedicated, Linux distro board)
Group #2 won't even touch boot-land anyway, as it is contaminated by talks inspired by the Devil. :cheers:
Group #3 has no problems in coming to boot-land for something they cannot already find on the Linux boards, we have a few members that are perfectly "bilingual".
So, the only people that may find easier/more convenient to come here are people in group #4, they are ONLY interesting in booting their distros, and, casually, we do have something for them (see above).

So, I see no problem in making a:

Linux support Forum (anything BUT booting it)

With a sub-forum:

File

:(
you find the way to divide logically it in sub-forums, or would you like a HUGE "All linux questions here please" kind of messy container? :(

:cheers:
Wonko

#18 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 01:17 AM

you find the way to divide logically it in sub-forums, or would you like a HUGE "All linux questions here please" kind of messy container? :smiling9:


Is the real problem in logically dividing a forum into sub-forum? boot-land is a community which deals with boot problems. Now, tell me, is the grub for RHEL5 widely differs from that of FedoraCore9? The subforums will be there on the basis of category of topics which'll appear there(nobody can predict beforehand), not on the basis of distro.

#19 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:12 AM

Is the real problem in logically dividing a forum into sub-forum? boot-land is a community which deals with boot problems. Now, tell me, is the grub for RHEL5 widely differs from that of FedoraCore9? The subforums will be there on the basis of category of topics which'll appear there(nobody can predict beforehand), not on the basis of distro.

If you want to provide Linux support, and if you want it to be the topics foundable by other people, yes.

boot-land is a community which deals with boot problems.

And, as said it already has a specific "how to boot linux section". :)


Now, tell me, is the grub for RHEL5 widely differs from that of FedoraCore9? The subforums will be there on the basis of category of topics which'll appear there(nobody can predict beforehand), not on the basis of distro.

Not really, "the grub" is the same or mostly the same (and is addressed in the mentioned sub-forum :smiling9:
The settings in grub menu.lst may be well different (but still addressed in the said sub-forum).

The subforums will be there on the basis of category of topics which'll appear there(nobody can predict beforehand), not on the basis of distro.

Good.
So you propose just a
  • All linux questions here please
section, that will be later divided (by whom? :() in a number of sub-forums according to what the posters ask in there? :(

:D
Wonko




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