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#1 euhenio

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 01:29 PM

Based on WinXP SP2 (EN - recommended)


QEMU on Windows Version 0.9.0 Fabrice Bellard http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/
Section "Accelerators"
- qemu.exe
- fmod.dll
- SDL.dll
- qemu-img.exe
- bios.bin
- vgabios.bin
7-Zip 4.57 © Igor Pavlov http://www.7-zip.org
- 7zG.exe
- 7z.dll
dd for windows John Newbigin http://www.chrysocome.net/dd
- dd.exe

- mkisofs.exe?
- cfadisk.sys http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=14292
- RegDACL.exe http://www.heysoft.d.../f_sw_rt_en.htm
- flashnul.exe http://shounen.ru/soft/flashnul/
- UltraDefrag
- ImDisk

WinBuilder 072

Antivirus, explorer(user) etc. should not interfere in work virtual machine (Qemu)

Web server - [url="http://mobileos.boot-land.net""]http://mobileos.boot-land.net"[/url]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Hi all
Somebody already tasted this OS?
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=19056
http://euhenio.mam.by/ (Russian)

Scripts which are at this forum almost approach MobileOS
I think, that it can replace Preinstallation Environment.

#2 Nuno Brito

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 11:40 PM

It would be an excellent replacement if the whole method could be automated, otherwise people will still be afraid to try it out by themselves..

I'll try it next weekend, looks really good! :P

#3 euhenio

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:43 AM

Yes, people really are afraid to try it.
I am confident, that i will manage to create sometime automated method based by scripts Winbuilder. I hope for reciprocal efforts

#4 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:01 PM

Since you're using nlite, have you already tried the method used by microwinx?

http://microwinx.com/

They create a XP based build (not PE) also sized around 50Mb, it's not using explorer shell or anything else added, but the result is very similar to our liveXP project and it will surely be easier to tweak with all the experience gathered from PE environments.

Don't be afraid to place any doubts you have regarding the script syntax or anything else in wich you need help - This is a really promissing project.. :P

#5 euhenio

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 01:00 PM

Whether you plan to support ms-inf format.
In projects a plenty of the information (in registry) included in installation CD contains.
Maybe to an release version 1.0 it will be possible .

#6 Nuno Brito

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 01:44 PM

It's good hearing news about a version 1.0 - I haven't had the time I hoped to get for testing mobileOS but will do it as soon as possible.

Do you need support for reading INF file from MS format?

Never thought about it, but I can give it a try - but it will take a while since I already have a few other code sections needed to be recoded and modified. Then I'll definitively help you better on this task! :P

#7 euhenio

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 12:37 AM

Nuno Brito

Do you need support for reading INF file from MS format?

Of course.
Windows XP registry contains ~10Mb keys which basically are read from inf files.
Bart has directed us not at that way.

#8 Nuno Brito

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 10:07 AM

Wouldn't it be simpler to load the XP hive from the running project onto the local registry and then modify the paths on the INF files to match the loaded hive?

This way it would be 100% ms compatible since we'd be using their INF engine - I would surely take a lot of time to get a good working result and this way seems faster to test this theory on real builds.

:P

#9 euhenio

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 11:08 PM

Wouldn't it be simpler to load the XP hive from the running project onto the local registry and then modify the paths on the INF files to match the loaded hive?

For the beginning it most suitable variant.

#10 euhenio

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 12:33 AM

see first post

#11 thunn

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 03:27 AM

Thanks for project script! Looks very interesting.
This is something I've been playing with for two years...
Regular XP as a runtime image!
Do you have it EWF enabled yet?
:P
I'll be curious to see your project continue. :P

Both PE and regular Windows developers have reduced their platforms to 15MB each, they're very similar.

#12 Nuno Brito

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 11:04 AM

Thanks for this release!

One thing: why is nlite required to slim the source?

We can copy only the needed files and remove unneeded entries from txtsetup.sif ourselves with wb, and the installation process can be simulated with qemu - I can help you with this process if you need.

Imagine it this way: We create the modded windows source as an ISO and proceed to use it as boot image on qemu - it's possible to generate an answer file that will provide all needed steps in an unatended fashion install on the emulated disk.

The serial number needed to install windows *must* be provided by the user itself - this can either be added from a script box inserted into the unnatended answer file, or user will input when windows is installing.

After the installation is complete, the registry patch is added and files.7z is created fresh - at this point I'm not sure on the best approach to copy files.7z from the guest OS - perhaps using network support, but on systems with firewall activated or even vista would make it hard to work as expected. Can't we use the disk image itself as source and mount it on our host OS since we can always create a fresh image disk on each build? This would also make it easier to manipulate files.

In either case, a small app - (using autoIt for example) can do these tasks unnatended, and order the system to shutdown, wich will cause qemu to close itself and allow the script processing to continue.

A message box asks the user if the created image is working correctly and proceed with the rest of build process.

End result is a completely unnatended XP hardware independent OS done with efficiency... :P

In my opinion, this would be a mobile solution I would use all day long... :P

#13 thunn

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 12:06 PM

You bring up some good points...why nlite? Good question to which there are many answers but you may be right. Is the XP Setup process so difficult to reproduce? I think we already know it's more flexible than we're led to believe. I'm thoroughly familiar will all pre-Vista UA practices and find all of this sparking some ideas. I have pre-scripted installs and a good bit of undocumented information on winnt.sif, but I don't even think you need all that, just a simple answer file combined with Nuno's detailed knowledge of the NT OS core should suffice. Just to make it interesting, you could use something like Longhorn 4047? :P

#14 euhenio

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 12:21 AM

thuun
I not use Longhorn.
Nuno Brito
Thank you for idea. Еventually we find way to simplify this process .

However if will appear the script , simplifying making MobileOS I will glad .

#15 thunn

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 02:44 AM

I was only joking.
I've been looking at how the registry must be modified so that we can make a hdd install straight from the source cd. DigitalProductIDs must be added and other things too, but it's very possible.
Obviously we can benifit from Nuhi's knowledge by studying a small nlited XP. I want to do something similar to what euhenio is doing using nlited xp but using just the source cd. The end result to be a generic hardware vhd image you could restore to bare metal or boot into RAM from cd/dvd/hdd.
Communication may by a little tricky but I 'd like to help with this project if I can. :P

#16 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 03:41 AM

Needed files for the system can be taken directly from source CD - make one small and stable build with nLite and you'll know the files and their locations in the build. It's no problem at all (I have this about 300MB with working printing, scanning, duil-up adsl and WiFi and think it could be reduced some more, most of my programs work and it's about 200MB on compressed NTFS image).

I found that for universal system some files should be extracted from DRIVER.CAB and placed in system32 and system32\drivers folders - it is possible to find out which files from WinBuilder stable build.
Some SATA/RAID drivers can be added to MobileOS for this purpose too.

Some pre-made regestry tweaks like USB support can be added for universal system too.


The only problem is in creating working Registry. The only way I see is to take regestry files from user's working system and edit them in WinBuilder - delete and add some keys with pre-made scripts.
Where to take these scripts? Compare full installation XP regestry with nLited or xplited regestry (maybe with both) and finding which keys should be added and which deleted to achive the goal.

nLited system seems to be smaller. xplited system seems to be more stable. IMHO.
Some regestry settings maybe taken from BartPE hives aslo.

If generic Regestry creating is possible any programs and language support can be added by a user through regular scripts during building.


NIKZZZZ from Ru-Board created new utility for saving image of running in RAM system. That could be very usefull because as we know any changes in MobileOS can't be saved after reboot. And this can be usefull for capturing the system itself (I have not tested it yet).


PS Just thought of it: maybe some functions in XP can be replaced by free alternatives like native netwoking replaced with PENetwork GUI? That way some more files and regestry settings can be deleted.

#17 thunn

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 06:44 AM

Oleg_II,
There's a guy, Bold Fortune, he made batch files which reduce an installed XP system, however, I'm leaning toward a nlite based project because of the small size that users have achived. I've been running nlite throughout the day to work out a few bugs and make sure the new version is working ok. Actually, I've reverted to v1.2.1 which has produced a stable build I'm running on a VM now. Taget size is about 135MB for the setup i386 with most fuctions still in tact, any smaller and the loss of funtionality is too great. When done, hopefully tomarrow, I'll start building my list to generate scripts.
Thanks for reporting your success!
Wouldn't it be nice to run the image out of RAM if you want to? :P
The end project might use a DOS based install, or even a mini Linux, to load OR restore the XPSP2 system image made from the install CD.

#18 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 06:54 AM

You can try my LASTSESSON.INI (nLite v1.3) and take out Chinese Simplified and Russian languages support. For now I only have one very serious bug - I can't run some MSI installers in the system :P Everything else seems to be functioning well. New source is less then 120MB (without languages it will be about 100MB).

If you need CHM files openning I can give you work around (works fine) or you can use a free program xCHM (works fine with English).

I open video files with Mplayer that doesn't need video playback support (self containing).

DirectX with sound support, printing, scanning, new devices drivers installation and, all kind of internet connections - all works fine.
No IE, OE, Task scheduler, MS Help (CHM files can be opened fine though with a small addition :P


PS No need for install at all - when you prepare the build just place it on virtual drive created with BootSDI.script :P I don't even think we should concentrate on installing - it's just for achiving the fewest files set for working system with the most functionality. When using WB we only need extact and place into Target sub-folders needed files from the source CD and find out how to create the Regestry in WB.

I run this image right now and writing this from RAM :P

PPS And I forgot to mention that you can delete a lot of files from installed system too: .LOG, .TMP, .PNF, .EVT, .OLD, etc. - it was about 10MB in my system! Some fonts should be revised if they are really used :P After extracting some files from DRIVER.CAB and SP2.CAB they also can be deleted. No need for DLL Cache. And so on.

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#19 thunn

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 07:39 AM

That's right, no install, just restore or load!
I already know where to export most all of the DigitalProductIDs, WPA, WGA.. (etc.) entries from in the registry.
It will be easy for me to start building a script and concentrate on the registry patching once the nlite build is imaged and ready for building lists. thx!

---
...and now I'm posting from the nlited system that just finished installing, It's about 20-30MB. bigger than yours, but still very fast even in a VM!
No IE front end, but the engine was left so I'm using explorer to surf the net before going to sleep. :P I'll try your presets tomarrow.

here I am :P..
Posted Image

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#20 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:13 AM

More 30MB - it's a half of WinBuilder stable build with network support and some appz! :P

I think that this also will be difficult - some people needs IE, some want to have Task scheduller, some will need OOB or even Old CDPlayer...

Would it be better not to stick with ALL functionality but with some features that are difficult to reproduce in PE systems like WiFi with security, printing and scanning? Most of other features including HTML rendering can be added with regular scripts during the build.

#21 was_jaclaz

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:56 AM

Thunn, Oleg, have a look at this post here:
http://www.boot-land...mine-t1697.html

The "universal" ATA and SVGA by "alter" could be useful to reduce size while making it "portable".

jaclaz

#22 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 09:04 AM

Yep, it's Russian isn't it? :P Yurkesha from Ru-Board thinks that it's good but it only supports SATA. And if you need RAID you should add some drivers too (they are often the same for SATA and RAID).

Interesting and promissing but not right now :P

#23 was_jaclaz

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 12:20 PM

Well, NO, it supports MOST IDE/ATA/ATAPI devices and a few SATA:
http://alter.org.ua/...ft/win/uni_ata/
hence the name of "universal"

Same applies for the VGA/SVGA:
http://www.navozhden...od.ru/vbemp.htm
http://www.geocities...ndows/vbemp.htm

jaclaz

#24 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 12:41 PM

Yurkesha made the script for universal VGA/SVGA and posted it on 911cd.net :P
It works for most drivers and I think it can be usefull in MobileOS project.

The WB plugin for this is very easy - just copy two files and extract one from the source CD. I'm attaching mine and if somebody wants he/she may adjust it for better look and functionality :P

As for universal mass storage driver... I'm not an IT specialist, I'm just transfering Yurkesha's opinion about it :P

Attached Files

  • Attached File  vga.zip   22.24KB   701 downloads


#25 thunn

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 03:36 PM

Oleg_II,
Later today I will. reproduce your build...100MB. is a good target size!!! :P

We'll obviously need to load generic drivers for most hardware, jaclaz is excellent to have around isn't he? thanks for the info!!




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