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#1 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 01:24 AM

I madly tried to find out the WinPE toolchain for Windows XP SP2 which is probably termed as Windows PE 1.5(2004), as per Wikipedia. But couldn't find it out. Surprisingly, Microsoft provides WAIK for Vista & Windows 7 as a download. Plz give me a link to download older versions of WinPE building tools. I've downloaded WAIK thrice but every time it showed a nasy error "Winpe.cab is corrupt". Cany anybody explain this?

#2 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 07:36 AM

AFAIK WinPE 1.x was NOT redistributable and originally targeted ONLY to "certified" "SAM's" and, later, "OEM's".

Why do you think that BartPE was "invented" for? :D

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

While I was already thinking about what great things this could do, I noticed the end-user license agreement for Microsoft software that is included with Windows Preinstallation Environment (Windows PE) 1.2 (eula.txt). In section "1. ELIGIBILITY." it states the following:
..."You may only install and use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT if you are an active Microsoft Software Assurance Member ("SAM") for the systems product pool or servers product pool, if you currently have license coverage for Microsoft Windows operating system (OS) Upgrades via a Campus Agreement or School Agreement, or if you are a current or former participant in the Windows XP Joint Development Program, Windows XP Rapid Adoption Program, Windows .NET Server Joint Development Program, or Windows .NET Server Rapid Adoption Program. If you do not meet one or more of the requirements listed above, you may not install or use this SOFTWARE PRODUCT and you must terminate the installation of this SOFTWARE PRODUCT immediately"...

Oops, that does not include me. As a matter of fact that does not include most of us! This was very disappointing. But then I started thinking, how difficult can it be to build something similar to Windows PE from a Windows XP installation CD-Rom? A quick file compare looked like most of the needed files are on the Windows XP CD-Rom. Only because I thought building this would be easy, I started coding my own builder program. Had I known how hard it would be, I would probably never have started programming PE Builder.


Later the license was extended to OEM's.

Things changed with 1.5 or 1.6, cannot remember exactly, when the definition of OEM was "enlarged" to comprehend in practice anyone that assembled his own PC.

http://en.wikipedia....ion_Environment
http://technet.micro....windowspe.aspx

With Vista :D and 7 the PE (2.x or 3.x) is part of the WAIK and/or is used during setup.

:D
Wonko

#3 Jotnar

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:09 PM

Sign up for http://oem.microsoft.com and then look under the OPK downloads section.

Windows XP SP2 OPK = WinPE 2004 (1.4)
Windows Server 2003 OPK = WinPE 2005 (1.5)

Unless you have older machines I don't know why you'd use an older release though.

Cheers

#4 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 03:09 PM

Sign up for http://oem.microsoft.com and then look under the OPK downloads section.
Cheers


Can anybody sign up there?

#5 ksanderash

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 11:59 PM

Can anybody sign up there?

No-o-o-o :D You should do it by yourself.

Write me PM, I'll give you some info on this. Though I can't realy understand why do you need it, cause your output will be illegal comparably to BartPE / Winbuilder, that is more or less bearable by Microsoft juridical department :smiling9:

I advise you to use WAIK. It is completely free distributable.

#6 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:14 AM

Though I can't realy understand why do you need it, cause your output will be illegal comparably to BartPE / Winbuilder, that is more or less bearable by Microsoft juridical department :)


Both BartPE and Winbuilder are COMPLETELY and PERFECTLY legal.

The use one makes of them - or, to be more exact the use one can make of the builds may be NOT.

Read about it:
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

Licensing issues

In order to make a BartPE installation, your must have a properly licensed copy of the operating system. BartPE does not grant users who do not have a proper Windows XP/2003 license the right to use a BartPE installation.

Also, according to the Microsoft EULA for Windows XP/2003, a user may not simultaneously use more installations of these operating systems than the user has license(s) for. This also goes for BartPE. In practice this means that the user may not use, for instance, a single license installation on one computer while simultaneously using a BartPE installation (created using that license) on another computer.


I advise you to use WAIK. It is completely free distributable.

WAIK is NOT redistributable :smiling9:. read it's license. (or has it changed laltely? :()
"Old" one had in point 7 (among other things):

• make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;
• publish the software for others to copy;
• rent, lease or lend the software;
• transfer the software or this agreement to any third party; or



:D
Wonko

#7 ksanderash

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:47 AM

Wonko
OK, freely distributable from the Microsoft site :)

Oxford dic:
distribute [dɪ'strɪbjuːt, 'dɪstrɪbjuːt] [with obj] 1) give a share or a unit of (something) to each of a number of recipients

Or it is only freely downloadable? LOL :smiling9:

Both BartPE and Winbuilder are COMPLETELY and PERFECTLY legal.

Aha, but in case of happening licensing check M$ jurists will stick upon my ass not Winbuilder authors' :(

- Where did you get these holy Richmond files, guy, huh? Why are you using our Windows code in such environment? OMG, he decompressed the dll -- put him in jail! :D

#8 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 01:03 AM

Wonko
OK, freely distributable from the Microsoft site :D

Oxford dic:
distribute [dɪ'strɪbjuːt, 'dɪstrɪbjuːt] [with obj] 1) give a share or a unit of (something) to each of a number of recipients

Or it is only freely downloadable? LOL :)

It is freely available by downloading it exclusively from Microsoft servers.
Since it is distributed in first instance by Microsoft ONLY, then it is NOT distributable by anyone else but MS, at the most it could be redistributable, which is EXPRESSLY forbidden.

Aha, but in case of happening licensing check M$ jurists will stick upon my ass not Winbuilder authors' :(

- Where did you get these holy Richmond files, guy, huh? Why are you using our Windows code? :cheers:

I see no reason why you stick around here then :smiling9:, only to tell people how using Winbuilder may cause (according to you) legal problems?

It's your second post babbling about obscure and completely undocumented legal consequencies of using Winbuilder:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=9416&st=3
Please re-read the whole topic:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=9416
and please explain to me the constructive contribution you made to it (if any). :(

:(
Wonko

#9 ksanderash

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 01:19 AM

It is freely available by downloading it exclusively from Microsoft servers.

You are master of definitions! No jokes :D

I'm here cause I like to help people and get new learnings, it's evident, Wonko :smiling9:

...

OK, I'll keep silence about the licensing matters. Also deleted the post in that thread. Who am I to talk these things... Anyway, I just expressed my thoughts. Maybe shouldn't be.

#10 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:04 AM

I'm here cause I like to help people and get new learnings, it's evident, Wonko.

Wonko approves of this. :D

OK, I'll keep silence about the licensing matters. Also deleted the post in that thread. Who am I to talk these things... Anyway, I just expressed my thoughts. Maybe shouldn't be.


Not at all, you are very welcome to express your thoughts (no matter what they are) :smiling9:, but while in the present thread the topic has been touched, even slightly, on the other one it was completely unconnected to anything.

More or less, being in Nuno's "house" and hinting two times in a row that he has created and distributes something illegal seems to me as a form of unjustified rudeness towards your host.

If you want to talk about possible licensing issues, or you have perplexities on the topic, it is not a taboo argument, but thoughts like:

... BartPE / Winbuilder, that is more or less bearable by Microsoft juridical department

...I'm very surprized even that the Winbuilder project itself (as BartPE too) keep on existance up to now....

without any backing are gratuitious, to say the least.

:)
Wonko

#11 ksanderash

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:28 AM

I didn't meant to compromise both Nuno and his project AT ALL. And I beg pardon if it unintentionally did happened. My fault :smiling9:

But I'm also not quite sure about the legality of what am I receiving after building CD with Winbuilder. Let's say I'm working for a commercial organization with a big PC park, and the licensing issues are very severe held. Will the additionaly aquired licensed package of Windows XP help preventing the Microsoft charge in being pirate? Does exist something, an article in a corporative blog e.g., that expresses Microsoft point of view upon the Winbuiler project?

...

I would realy suggest Nuno to put up a notice somewhere on top, that Winbuilder is safe to use, only if: and here goes the list of all that is prohibited and what is allowed. Maybe such thing even exists already, but I haven't seen it yet.

#12 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:17 AM

Winbuilder is ONLY an "engine" that basically executes a set of commands, nothing more (or "better" - if not for it's visual look) than a batch processor (in it's previous incarnation it was called - not so casually - "batcher" :)), conceptually the difference with Bart's PE builder is simply that it is a bit more "widely oriented" or "flexible" than PEbuilder.

At it's root it does ONLY three things:
  • copies files from "Source" to "Target"
  • writes new files and settings (modifying some files copied from "Source to Target")
  • adds to target third party apps NOT included in original "Source"

The "Target" is perfectly legal.

Now comes the tricky part. :(

Booting what/where:
  • the Microsoft license generally allows the user to run ONE instance of the "Source" concurrently for each license.

In the case of an OEM license (one of those "linked" to hardware) this single instance can ONLY legally be run on the single specific hardware it was licensed for.

Additionally there are on PE 1.x two additional restrictions implemented by MS:
  • the time limit (if I recall correctly 24 hours)
  • the resource limit (if I recall correctly originally ten instances of programs)

These limits are NOT part of the License Agreement so they can be removed (as long as you do it the "right" way), one of the "historical" ways:
http://www.911cd.net...?showtopic=7049

To semplify, if you have an OEM license you cannot legally:
  • boot the PE on ANY system if NOT the one it is "linked to" and you cannot boot it in a VM running on the main Licensed XP

If you have a "Full" license, you can boot the PE on whatever machine you happen to have, as long as there is a single instance running at any time (again running it in a VM running on the same licensed XP is not)

If you have a VLK license you can boot the PE on whatever machine you happen to have, including a VM running on main system, as long as you have as many licensed "seats" as the number of concurrently booted systems.

BUT, there are "workarounds", mainly:

The particular use you make of them is entirely your problem, it is just like any tool, Nuno used recently a nice paragon of a kitchen knife for Sardu:
http://www.boot-land...?...10906&st=30

Since I am more hardware oriented than him, I like to think at these builders as a hammer and chisel:
  • you can use them both as a means to gain illegally access to a building by breaking the door lock or to create out of marble a magnificent sculpture.... :smiling9:

...and beauty is in the eye of the beholder...:(

:D
Wonko

#13 ksanderash

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:38 AM

Thanks, Wonko. I'm admin also, so I knew the most part of what you've said (of course, it wasn't written in vain, I don't mean this) :smiling9:

So we base our rights on the general XP EULA, and no particular approach from Microsoft?

They get additional sells, therewith, demanding additional license for the recovery environment build possibility. In case of WinPE 2.0-3.0, as I got, you don't even need that license -- just use the WAIKed build with licensed seats, and your ass is in safety.

#14 cdob

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 09:50 AM

But I'm also not quite sure about the legality of what am I receiving after building CD with Winbuilder. Let's say I'm working for a commercial organization with a big PC park, and the licensing issues are very severe held.

There are different countries and different laws.
Local laws may be contrary to manufacturer opinion.
You may break XP EULA parts, if they conflict to local laws.
Hence there is no final answer.

Unless a final court ruling, there is no final advice.

Ask the company admin and lawyer.

Will the additionaly aquired licensed package of Windows XP help preventing the Microsoft charge in being pirate?

A addional XP license is nice for a XP based PE.

Does exist something, an article in a corporative blog e.g., that expresses Microsoft point of view upon the Winbuilder project?

I doubt a final manufacturer statement.

Both PEBuilder and Winbuiler are online since several years.
MS lawyers knew this sites.

Another hint: http://www.ubcd4win....msdocuments.htm

Microsoft challenged me in the early days of the project over the name. So 4 years later if there were any other problems, I'm sure I would have received more documents from them by now.


Winbuilder is a script engine.
Using existing scripts may cause conflict to local laws.
It's questionable to integrate parts from 2003, Vista or Windows 7 to a Windows XP PE.
The same goes to applications.
If you use a existing script, you have to verify each script.
Of course this goes to PEBuilder plugins too.


Finally there is huge difference:
PE building locally and use this PE local.
Distributing a builded PE.

#15 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:46 AM

So we base our rights on the general XP EULA, and no particular approach from Microsoft?

The EULA is the only document under which you have access to the actual files.

I personally doubt even the actual enforceability of the EULA as it is NOT a signed agreement between the parts involved, but nonetheless anything published by Microsoft elsewhere and NOT being part of the EULA and/or of some other License Agreement, would be considered irrelevant under most countries Laws.

Microsoft guys are of course free to take any approach they see fit, but until they don't put other limitations explicitely in the EULA or in any connected License Agreement, it would be simply an opinion, with as much weight or relevance as anyone else's (none).

What we know for a fact is (but again that means nothing) that not Bart Lagerwej nor Nuno ever got not even one of the (completely crazy, IMHO) "cease and desist" letter from any of the "Internet Investigators".
A reference:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=2960
http://web.archive.o...takedown-notice
exactly because there is no "redistribution" of copyright protected files in BartPE or Winbuilder.

Another completely meaningless hint:
Microsoft's own "certification attempt" about BartPE being compatible with windows 7 64-bit :(:
http://www.microsoft...i...-bit&vd=all

No information available
We are working with the software publisher to confirm this product’s compatibility.


They didn't even attempt "working with the software publisher" for Vista :( compatibility report:
http://www.microsoft...i...-bit&vd=all

:cheers:


But at least it shows that the MS guys do know about PE builder.
This .doc (warning 8.3 Mbytes) is another nice example:
http://download.micr...ronis_FINAL.doc

Again, remember that on Microsoft.com, you can find really crazy things, a few examples:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3541

And a quite recent mishap by the good MS guys:
http://www.msfn.org/...howtopic=139017

:)
Wonko

#16 paraglider

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 11:19 AM

All this is why we are still using dos based ghost 2003 at work even though we use mostly MS software.

#17 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 11:43 AM

In my original post, I mentioned that: "I've downloaded WAIK thrice but every time it showed a nasy error "Winpe.cab is corrupt". Can anybody explain this?" Getting out of licensing issues, I request somebody to try to answer my original concern, please. Also, if possible, provide me some working download link. One thing is worth mentioning that, I sownloaded WAIK for Vista, Vista SP1 & Windows 7 & tried them to install each of them on Windows XP SP2,SP3 & Windows 7, but with little success. Everytime the installation terminated with the nasty error.

#18 paraglider

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:04 PM

No we cannot give you links to old versions prior to those downloadable direct from MS. They are only available from oem.microsoft.com. If you register yourself as an oem then you will be able to download old versions of PE.

#19 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:08 PM

No we cannot give you links to old versions prior to those downloadable direct from MS.


U got me wrong. I'm asking for WAIK for Vista & Win 7 also

#20 paraglider

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:09 PM

Could be your antivirus software when you extract the download. Could be a poor internet connection with lots of retries. You could have corruptions in your file system. Try running chkdsk.

#21 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:12 PM

Could be your antivirus software when you extract the download. Could be a poor internet connection with lots of retries. You could have corruptions in your file system. Try running chkdsk.


The above possible reasons do not apply & I retried many a times on two separate machines. If u have a WAIK with u, can u provide me the link & the MD5 of it?

#22 ksanderash

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 01:27 PM

Thanks to all of you guys who answered about my MS related questions! That's interesting info to read if you are suffering of licensing nightmares :)
Like a balm on a heart :(

Holmes.Sherlock
Have no English WAIKs here, but google says that:
FILE: 6001.18000.080118-1840-kb3aikl_en.iso

MD5: B83FAD8FD28E637B82CB4A6BEF7D6920



FILE: KB3AIK_EN.iso

MD5: 1E73B24A89ECEAB9D50585B92DB5482F


#23 cdob

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:50 PM

"I've downloaded WAIK thrice but every time it showed a nasy error "Winpe.cab is corrupt". Can anybody explain this?"

That's three corrupt downloads.
Either internet connection, local software or local hardware.
Don't use a download accelerator. Test RAM.

#24 Holmes.Sherlock

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:14 PM

That's three corrupt downloads.
Either internet connection, local software or local hardware.
Don't use a download accelerator. Test RAM.


Then how'll u explain these?
http://www.geekpedia...atest-WAIK.html
http://www.vistax64....stall-waik.html
http://www.eggheadca...-for-vista.aspx

& many more

#25 ksanderash

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:14 PM

Mr. Sherlock, so how about the hashes? Do they match?




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