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Meditating on Transition to Modern Hardware


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#1 Bicephale

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 10:13 PM

Hi,

It's been a while. These days i'm contemplating the possibilities
offered by new products like Acer's Aspire Revo and other various
mini-ATX (or perhaps even micro-ITX) boards built around Intel's
Atom N330 or D510 "dual core" processors combined to nVidia's
iOn/iOn2 GPU or Intel's N10, whatever... The VisionTek ATi All-in-
Wonder HD3650 Deluxe TV capture card (PCIe x16) is one possible
peripheral i'd like to play with.

My question is, this may be all fine with MicroSoft Windows but i
would prefer to remain able to boot from DOS and i must confess
i know nothing about the late hardware news such as what those
Atom processors, etc. In fact, any comment relative to alternate
OSes and boot options would be appreciated...

#2 Nuno Brito

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 10:42 PM

Hello,

Seeing someone triving to keep using DOS on modern hardware is indeed a rare event nowadays.

I'm also a fan from the DOS time and I don't know if it helps but I've recently found myself having a lot of fun doing things from the command line on linux.

Instead of having to worry so much about hardware support for CD/DVD/USB media or even support for higher memories, multiple CPU's and so forth.. there is linux that is developed with these type of concepts in mind.

If you have some time, I'd recommend trying the Ubuntu variant, very complete and simple as things should be.

From there you can take advantage of your recent hardware while being able to run DOS using DOSBox, just type "apt-get install dosbox" from the command line.

Hope this helps, I know it's not the same but at least you'll still be able to run a native command line on a OS where it is still taken very seriously.

:dubbio:

#3 Bicephale

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 06:02 AM

It turns out i'm not only worried about booting with DOS: i'm
thinking that if the machine supports this basic criteria then
there should be hope for Linux too - 'Slax' Linux as far as i'm
concerned. For all practical purposes i've stopped typing DOS
commands years ago and i was never attracted by the Linux CLI,
actually. All of my PCs can boot from DOS, it may seem like it
no longer matters but many BIOS update diskettes are still DOS
based even today, for example. DOS emulation is for the "fun"
part, DOS compatibility is about the part i just mentioned...

#4 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:01 AM

I don't see a reason why DOS shouldn't boot in any of those.
Support of peripherals (including SATA devices, particularly CD/DVD drives) may be troublesome, of course.

:dubbio:
Wonko

#5 Bicephale

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 02:18 AM

Good point, i should try to ensure that IDE remains
available, just in case. Then there's PXE booting...

Etc., etc...

Not to mention USB and/or WireLess keyboards:
multi-boot menus require at least the mouse or
keyboard to work, IMO!

:dubbio:

#6 hussey

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 10:54 AM

I'm also a fan from the DOS time and I don't know if it helps but I've recently found myself having a lot of fun doing things from the command line on linux.

T .. s
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#7 Nuno Brito

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 08:07 PM

hussey has been assigned to our special category for spammers. Enjoy your stay.

:smiling9:

#8 wendy

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:21 AM

I think that DOS is becoming less useful for modern hardware, even some of the later ones, like 7.1 and 8.0.

DOS does not support SATA devices straight up, and does only if sata is loaded in ide emulation, which pretty much defeats sata per se. But then, even the WinPE i cut some years ago does not see sata drives. In this sense, i don't think that dos is dead yet here.

The disk drives are now comming very large, and the native pc-dos or ms-dos utilities do not handle these effectively. One can use things like ffdisk here, though. On the other hand, the preparing of disk partitions has been given over to a commercial linux app.

There's are now win64 and linux versions of ghost, which also run somewhat faster than the DOS versions, these operating systems also support usb. I use the linux version on the boot cdrom.

I suppose DOS will be run in small environments like cameras (DL ROM-DOS) or as dusty decks for many years to come. Cobol was supposed to be a flash in the pan, not to survive the sixties, but it chugs on to this day.

#9 Bicephale

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 09:38 PM

Can SATA be made to look like IDE transparently, through BIOS support?

If so, which BIOS exactly?

#10 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 09:10 AM

Can SATA be made to look like IDE transparently, through BIOS support?


Yes.

If so, which BIOS exactly?


Most BIOS have a setting, usually something like "IDE compatibility mode" that will expose the hard disk as IDE/ATA/SATA vs. AHCI over SATA.

But you will lose some of the features of AHCI:
http://www.msfn.org/...o...0444&st=589

In real life, a SATA 1 (1.5 Gb/s) drive with NO native command queing will behave very much like a ATA/IDE 133 device.
A SATA 2 (3.0 Gb/s) will be much faster BUT the diffrence is made in everyday use by NCQ.

:)
Wonko




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