16 replies to this topic

[pscEx]

Intro: There are several WB projects which successful create an ISO (bootable in emulator AND from CD) OR create a bootable USB pen with running PE.

• nativeEx_barebone (German source SP3)
• nativeEx_Win7 (German source)
• VistaPE CAPI (Spanish source, the only source I have for tests )

I combine them into one ISO with Grub4Dos:

menu.lst:

timeout 10default 0splashimage /face.xpm.gztitle VistaPE-Corefind --set-root /images/VistaPE-Core.isomap /images/VistaPE-Core.iso (hd32)map --hookroot (hd32)chainloader (hd32)title nativeEx_Win7find --set-root /images/nativeEx_Win7.isomap /images/nativeEx_Win7.iso (hd32)map --hookroot (hd32)chainloader (hd32)title nativeEx_barebonefind --set-root /images/nativeEx_barebone.isomap /images/nativeEx_barebone.iso (hd32)map --hookroot (hd32)chainloader (hd32)title CommandLinecommandline title Rebootreboot title Halthalt

Testing the ISO in an emulator:
nativeEX_Barebone:

VistaPE-Core:

nativeEx_Win7:


As grub4dos beginner I'm sticked.
My questions and ask for suggestions how to fix:

Is the difference between "ISO" and "ISO" in WB's generating the ISO or in grub4dos' understanding the ISO?

Peter

[maanu]

NT5 based ISO , needs to be loaded into RAM .

map --mem for NT5 bases native ex.

[maanu]

NT5 based ISO , needs to be loaded into RAM .

map --mem for NT5 bases native ex.

[pscEx]

Before I posted, I tried "All" combinations.

But to be sure, I now tested the --mem option again: Same result.

Peter

[Wonko the Sane]

Is the difference between "ISO" and "ISO" in WB's generating the ISO or in grub4dos' understanding the ISO?

If your native_ex PE 1.x does NOT use a RAMDISK approach, yes.
What you tried to build are respectively:
a PE 1.x
a PE 2.x
a PE 3.x

While PE 2.x and Pe 3.x are VERY similar, PE 1.x is DIFFERENT!

READ the sticky:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8944

Again, generally speaking:

For Windows 2K/XP/2003 based builds you need a RAMDISK based .iso build (search for keywords BootSDI, RAMDISK.SYS, Firadisk, WinVblock) AND read, before anything else, and attentively this seemingly unrelated thread:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4952
AND links given within it to get a general idea of the RAMDISK booting approach.

@maanu
Are you really sure of what you have posted?
(the ..mem is ONLY the way grub4dos loads the image, it has nothing to do with the missing hook/driver in protected mode.


Wonko

[pscEx]

Thanks Wonko, for your comment.
(BTW: The "sticky" was not unknown for me when I posted)

As a grub4dos beginner I did not want to post "here is a bug (or at least a missing feature) in grub4dos".
I tried to mention that opinion hidden.

Let me explain my technical view:

An ISO is something like a black box. Here is assumed that it contains something "reasonable" and "bootable". Whatever the ISO contains, when you burn it to a CD and boot from the CD, you will get a working OS / App / ???

Now to grub4dos: You add the ISO to the menu.lst and boot: Depending on the contents of the ISO, you either will get a working OS / App / ??? or the boot crashes.

Problem of the ISO? I do not think so.

Peter

[cdob]

Problem of the ISO? I do not think so.

That's a major feature request.

Current support goes to BIOS calls.
Real mode OS part can access the virtual CD drive.
Protected mode OS part dosn't find virtual CD drive.
A general BIOS enhancement would be required. As far as a I know, this dosn't exist so far.

[pscEx]

Thanks, cdob!

In my words: "Currently not (yet) possible"

Peter

[pscEx]

While PE 2.x and Pe 3.x are VERY similar, PE 1.x is DIFFERENT!

Can you explain me a way to "survive"?
RAM disk I theoretically refuse. It should not be necessary to boot a simple ISO.

Peter

[cdob]

RAM disk I theoretically refuse. It should not be necessary to boot a simple ISO.

What about:
ISO file booting isn't possible at all. However there are some exceptions.

What's a simple ISO?
A boot floppy emulated ISO file?

A OS loading drivers and access hardware by drivers?
No, that's not a simple ISO.
A driver has to access the virtual drive.
Does exist a driver as for PE booting?

[pscEx]

What about:
ISO file booting isn't possible at all. However there are some exceptions.

I fully agree. But I did not read that anywhere before.
If I would have know that, I would'n have post this topic (maybe in a different manner: complain and wail)

What's a simple ISO?
A boot floppy emulated ISO file?

Sorry, my lack of writing good English.
Meant is "(Black Box) ISO file build by standard apps / functions w/o some special user interactions / addons etc. which can be burned to functionable CD"

Does exist a driver as for PE booting?

Maybe that is the point outside the ??? project and outside grub4dos.

Peter

[Sha0]

Where in blazes is the .ISO? Whatever your answer is, here's a fact: The OS needs a way to access that "where." For DOS, this "way" is BIOS INT 0x13. For Windows and Linux, there are many different drivers ("ways") for the different devices ("wheres"). GRUB4DOS provides INT 0x13, so DOS can certainly access the .ISO. Anything else, you need a driver, whether it's a RAM disk or a disk image file in a filesystem on a SAN disk with the backing storage on the moon.

[maanu]

If your native_ex PE 1.x does NOT use a RAMDISK approach, yes.
What you tried to build are respectively:
a PE 1.x
a PE 2.x
a PE 3.x

While PE 2.x and Pe 3.x are VERY similar, PE 1.x is DIFFERENT!

READ the sticky:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8944


@maanu
Are you really sure of what you have posted?
(the ..mem is ONLY the way grub4dos loads the image, it has nothing to do with the missing hook/driver in protected mode.


Wonko

i thought a native PE 1.x booting without ramdisk based driver need to map into memory first at least thats what i have tried in the past., did not know he is facing a driver issue too.

[pscEx]

Where in blazes is the .ISO? Whatever your answer is, here's a fact: The OS needs a way to access that "where." For DOS, this "way" is BIOS INT 0x13. For Windows and Linux, there are many different drivers ("ways") for the different devices ("wheres"). GRUB4DOS provides INT 0x13, so DOS can certainly access the .ISO. Anything else, you need a driver, whether it's a RAM disk or a disk image file in a filesystem on a SAN disk with the backing storage on the moon.

Thanks, Sha0!

Now I understand a bit of the background.

Peter

[Wonko the Sane]

peter,
if I tell you to READ the sticky, I mean read it AND do your homework.

Firadisk and WinVblock are currently experimenting about DIRECT mapping (which I presume it is what you are looking for).

But let's us put it in another way.

What happens if you try to boot a "standard" PE 1.x from a SATA hard disk with the BIOS set to SATA or AHCI?

You experience a BSOD STOP 0x0000007b because your build has NOT integrated the appropriate driver for the hard disk.

XP and consequently PE 1.x have NOT by default a built-in driver capable of booting/accessing a .iso.

You either add this driver to the build or you will have a 0x0000007b.

@maanu
No matter what you remember having tried, a PE 1.xx .iso will crash with 0x0000007b, no matter if mapped directly or to memory in grub4dos, unless the build has a driver capable of hooking the mapping.

The Server 2003 SP1 "classical" way works because the image is copied to RAMDISK during the initial part of the booting, i.e. in "Real Mode", and the RAMDISK can hook this latter chunk of RAM.



Wonko

[maanu]

i thought it was understood that peter DID include the RAID drivers and was not booting a ramdisk based pe .

[Wonko the Sane]

i thought it was understood that peter DID include the RAID drivers and was not booting a ramdisk based pe .

I don't get it.

A non-RAMDISK PE (or if available now - haven't checked lately - Firadisk/WinVblock direct mapping) won't boot through grub4dos mapping of an image.

I seem to miss ANY reference to RAID and to RAID drivers (exception made for your post ).


Wonko