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A view from the Outside ....


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#1 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 10:40 AM

Living Outside of the Asylum, I have a distinct advantage over most members that live inside it.

Peeking from the outside I see a perfect CATCH22:
  • no existing project (exception made for native_ex latest) will work with 081
  • native_ex projects (latest and previous also :cheers:) have been retired

This evidently produces the effect that there is NO supported project working with 081. :lol:


Since it is YEARS that Winbuilder worked (in the sense that it DID output a working PE) before 081 was released, and there are a number of projects working with either 077 rc2, or 078 or 080, any member with a little of common sense would:
  • stick to a working build and project
  • continue building as he/she did until three days ago, working projects
  • stop whining about 081

as well any project mantainer or administrator (again IF having some common sense) would:
  • ignore 081
  • continue refining his/her projects just as he/she was doing until three days ago
  • stop whining about 081

as well the current Winbuilder program developer (again IF having some common sense) would:
  • make available again his native_ex project, which is said to be working with 081
  • continue refining his program as he was doing until three days ago
  • stop whining about other people not liking 081 and the changes introduced in it

The amount of whining, the most time wasteful activity known to mankind will then decrease, and everyone will have what is needed, working Winbuilder and projects (though not latest version of Winbuilder) and a single working project with latest version of Winbuilder.

Apparent mental age of people involved in the last three days completely UNproductive discussion about GLOBAL, PERMANENT, variables vs. constants and what not, as seen form the Outside: 9
(though a few 9 years have been seen more mature than what has been shown here lately)


To recap, untill three days ago we had:
  • ALL projects working (more or less)
  • native_ex projects available

Now we have:
  • NO working project (with 081)
  • NO native_ex projects available

If evolution of life worked this way, the earth would be probably populated by bacteria ONLY. :cheers:


:lol:
Wonko

#2 MedEvil

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:17 AM

If evolution of life worked this way, the earth would be probably populated by bacteria ONLY. :lol:

The reason that bacteria are not the sole survivor is, that nature knows no democracy or equal partnership. It knows hirarchy and that prevents any stalemate and also reduces whining greatly. :lol:

:cheers:

#3 pscEx

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:40 AM

You forgot one fact which lead to the current unreachabilty of nativeEx:

Since 3 days I'm decladed to be an "Idiot".

And since 3 days I know that the "Idiot" declarer is a productive member of the Warez community.
"Who cares when I include M$ non-distributables in my project?"

Peter

#4 paraglider

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:40 AM

Deleted comment.

#5 paraglider

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 11:50 AM

Don't think anybody declared you to be an idiot.

All we ask is that if you are going to break compatibility with previous versions that you let the script developers know before its done so that a proper discussion can take place. If as result of the discussion its decided that no its not a good idea then the change should not be implemented.

If the reason for the change is a performance improvement then provide two versions of winbuilder - one without the change and one with it so that the performance improvement can be verified. Would be nice if we got back some of the lost speed of older versions.

#6 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:25 PM

Since 3 days I'm decladed to be an "Idiot".


No, that's NOT what happened.

Three days ago an unpolite, mentally 9 years old started calling you names, yelling that you are an idiot.

Because of the behaviour of this single, bad, bad child :cheers: , you decided to bring home all the toys that you had shared with all your classmates till then.

It's up to you to react like another 9 years old or not, but it must be clear that NO other of your mates has ever called you an idiot and they have no responsabilities whatsoever in this.

Whether you find fair stopping sharing your toys with all the other kids because of the actions of this single, impolite and acrimonious child, it's your moral problem, but dont' base your decisions, whatever they will be, on false premises.

@paraglider

Don't think anybody declared you to be an idiot.

:lol:
I find no other way to describe the contents of this post:
http://www.boot-land...?...0693&st=174
but it is obviously the arrogant, impolite and peevish outburst of a single member of the Board, UNbacked up by ANY other member.

:lol:
Wonko

#7 pscEx

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:44 PM

Thanks Jaclaz Wonko Jaclaz!

I think I'll use the long weekend (Monday is holiday in Germany) to think about what you said.

Peter

BTW @Paraglider: I got your first comment by e-mail. When you replace G.. by "Voluntary Fulltime Developer" and h... by "no support" you see the real statement at the horizont ... :lol:

#8 MedEvil

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 01:36 PM

@Wonko
No need to pad Peter on the back, just because you wanna play with his toys again.
He's not completely innocent of the situation. Eventhough JFX could have expressed himself in a politer way, he was mad at Peter for a valid reason, imo.


:cheers:

#9 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 02:14 PM

@Wonko
No need to pad Peter on the back, just because you wanna play with his toys again.
He's not completely innocent of the situation. Eventhough JFX could have expressed himself in a politer way, he was mad at Peter for a valid reason, imo.

I am not padding anyone on the back.

Noone is better suited than me about asking why peter decided not to share anymore his toys SINCE I DO NOT play with them (just like I don't play wth ANY winbuilder project - I disagreed with it's basic principles a long time ago, and have found no reasons to change my idea on it).

I have no benefit, direct of indirect in having Winbuilder working or having any native_ex project.

The behaviour of JFX is inacceptable, NO matter how much anyone will try to justify him.

Everyone is welcome to disagree with someone else, as long as it is done in a CIVIL manner.

In other words, JFX's disagreement is perfectly justifiable (and everyone is perfectly free to think he is right or wrong), the way he expressed it, it is NOT.

I find personally unfair to all the other nice guys on the board and, as clearly stated, childish, that because of the lack of education of a single guy, the Community should be deprived of an important part of it.

I also don't care who started it and why, nor I give a damn about variables and constants and %BurnISO% or whatever.

The situation is EXACTLY as I described it:
  • three days ago everything was cool
  • since three days it is not

I expressed how I saw it from the outside, and suggested a way to get again everything as cool as before easily, as always anyone is welcome to do whatever he wishes or chooses to do, innocent or guilty, but it has to be clear that the reason why we are here is because we are a Community, and to keep it going is our goal.

:cheers:
Wonko

#10 MedEvil

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 04:49 PM

Not to start a discussion again, about our different ideas about healthy group dynamics.

But how exactly does one get mad in a civil manner?


:cheers:

#11 was_JFX

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 08:09 AM

Since 3 days I'm decladed to be an "Idiot".

You misinterpret something, weather I not anyone else declared yourself as an idiot.

The problem is, you just act like one.

You lie at topics and ugly provoke someone, who only tries to help others, just because you feel so small in his presence.

You see your decisions as law, but if anyone is against your superior way you start topics like:

Developer's 'Bye'
nativeEx news

What a weak human heart you have, so full of hatred and desperation.

Hmm, I'm the only one who think it's strange that it always are talented script writers that hate you :cheers:


@jaclaz
I don't thing you should talk about the arrogance of anyone else than yourself :cheers:


@Nuno
I can't afford this nice dream team successfully turn me into a troll

If you like me try to keep peace in your forum, there are 2 simple options.

1 - Give me admin power to remove the root of the problem in a civil manner.

2 - Ban me forever.

:cheers:

#12 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 08:35 AM

Not to start a discussion again, about our different ideas about healthy group dynamics.

But how exactly does one get mad in a civil manner?

Without heavily offending another member calling him/her names.

As an example :cheers:, I do believe that you spend most of your time in unneedingly trying to stir the waters in order to undermine the otherwise tranquil exchange of ideas and opinions on the board, as soon as there is an occasion, you are always there to spend your 2 cents in such a way to facilitate other people gettting mad (at you or at someone else), and I profoundly disapprove of this behaviour of yours, which I find besides otiose and uncalled for, extremely irritating. :cheers:

But I don't call you names, :cheers: and I do respect your intelligence and the products of your contributions to the board, even if, on average, I disagree with you 80% of the times.


@JFX
It's not a matter of pure arrogance, you can be as arrogant as you want, calling someone else an idiot is not "arrogance" is "uneducated, uncivil arrogance".

It's quite simple, if you don't want to be thought as a troll, don't behave as one. :cheers:

jaclaz

#13 MedEvil

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 12:52 PM

Without heavily offending another member calling him/her names.

But I don't call you names, ;) and I do respect your intelligence and the products of your contributions to the board, even if, on average, I disagree with you 80% of the times.

Yep we hardly ever agree on anything, but we're never mad at eachother.
Since being mad requires loosing ones cool or head, one can harly stay level-headed.


As an example :thumbsup:, I do believe that you spend most of your time in unneedingly trying to stir the waters in order to undermine the otherwise tranquil exchange of ideas and opinions on the board, as soon as there is an occasion, you are always there to spend your 2 cents in such a way to facilitate other people gettting mad (at you or at someone else), and I profoundly disapprove of this behaviour of yours, which I find besides otious and uncalled for, extremely irritating. ;)

As said, we two have completely different, if not opposite, ideas about how a group should work.
I would summarize your point of view as: People may shout and curse in private, but in the forum they have to be nice and civil, even if that means, they have to lie through their teeth.
I prefer to get things out in the open and deal with them. People constantly venting a little steam, are known to not explode or overreact.


:cheers:

#14 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 02:47 PM

I would summarize your point of view as: People may shout and curse in private, but in the forum they have to be nice and civil, even if that means, they have to lie through their teeth.


I would summarize as:
anything that will get either of your parents wash your mouth with soap or, once grown up, get a straight punch in the face at the pub is a NO-NO in a community.

Compare:
http://www.boot-land...?...=4064&st=21

:thumbsup:
Wonko

#15 MedEvil

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 07:13 PM

once grown up, get a straight punch in the face at the pub is a NO-NO in a community.

Don't know how violent or volatile italians are ;), but nothing i have ever read here, would get one punched in the face in Germany.
Besides violence isn't the answer of choice for one being called names.
It's the answer of choice for one loosing an argument, regardless of the tone of voice the winner used. It's an attempt to win back lost ground / lost status / lost face.


:thumbsup:

#16 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 08:36 AM

Point number 1 is obviously bad. What I don't understand is why no-one thought to question the second point?

Why was point number 2 not considered to be a GOOD thing for the community? ... :wheelchair:


allanf,
in my opinion you are really overdoing it now.
Take some time out, go walking, stop beating dead horses :P, it is perfectly unuseful.

:thumbup:
Wonko

#17 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 10:23 AM

You think I'm flogging my dead horse?

Yes, we all have got the idea about your thoughts about the validity of Native_ex as a project, and about peter's capabilities as a programmer.

I don't think that repeating these concepts over and over will change anything, the "message" is astonishingly clear (to me at least) but while the first time it may have been interesting (though NOT "new", since similar messages have been posted with better or worse manners and with varying degrees of objectivity by several other members or ex-members of the board), by repeating it over and over it gets simply boring.

Of course you are perfectly free :cheers: to revive each and every single thread on the board :unsure:, finding in it a "hook" to post once again how IYO all the above sucks big, but really really you haven't anything more productive to do? :dubbio:


Do you really want to appear as childish as many of the mentioned members appeared?

There is (still IMHO) another thing that next to whining is a very negative (in the sense of essentially otiose and unproductive) attitude, which is spite.

For no apparent reason ;):
Spoiler


:cheers:
Wonko

#18 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 11:53 AM

Your method certainly hasn't worked! Ask him politely to retire?

There is no "method" that I can remember.:dubbio:

And don't think I ever suggested (politely or not) that anyone should retire. :unsure:

I did post my ideas and opinions on how the whole thingy should and could have been (better ?) managed/organized, but since noone was actually willing to follow those ideas/suggestions (actually nothing but "common sense advice"), I declared the whole thingy a S.E.P. and lived happily after that :cheers: .

IMHO going over and over this issue won't change anything, as it hasn't changed anything in the past, with the "side effect" of "collateral damage" of making the whole board a "less friendly and fun" environment. :(

Peaceful living on the board seems to me another and more serious problem.

When someone replies to a topic that I posted to, a nice little e-mail pops up in my box and it is annoying when I go and see what's up to find yet another post that is:
  • not "news"
  • otiose/unproductive/spiteful
  • a repetition of the same concepts already presented over and over

I have an idea ;) , instead of posting your opinions all over the board, why don't you start a new thread where you put all your whinings together in a nice and ordered list, which you can update from time to time? :cheers:

Something titled "Why Winbuilder and it's developer sucks big?" that everyone could use as a quick reference ....

:cheers:

Wonko

#19 MedEvil

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:27 PM

I gave myself ninety days to build a new PE. Not getting very far.

I don't quite get this statement. If you create a new PE, you should not have any troubles.
The beauty of a PE, not based on any other project and not meant for the public, is, that one has not to follow rules, one does not like.

My own version of NaughtyPE, is completely incompatible with Boot-Land reboot.pro for years.


:dubbio:

#20 MedEvil

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 05:07 PM

alanf, actually two misunderstandings. :cheers:

I thought you were talking about creating a own PE project from scratch, but you seem to talk about putting a own project together, from available pieces. The later can be a real pain in the behind.

When i was talking about my own (private) version of NaughtyPE, i was not refering to the public version of NaughtyPE. Those two are two completely different beasts and have nothing much in common, besides the name.

:cheers:

#21 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:17 PM

Those two are two completely different beasts and have nothing much in common, besides the name.

That you keep the same in order to avoid misunderstandings, I presume .... :cheers:

:cheers:
Wonko

#22 MedEvil

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:40 PM

That you keep the same in order to avoid misunderstandings, I presume .... :cheers:

Well, my private one is the NaughtyPE like it should be, while the public one is the one that is allowed here.

:cheers:

#23 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:15 PM

Well, my private one is the NaughtyPE like it should be, while the public one is the one that is allowed here.

Sure :).
I was thinking you might call the Public one:

NaughtyPE_P

and the Private one:

NaughtyPE_P

Just in in order to avoid misunderstandings, you know....:cheers:
:rofl:
:cheers:

:cheers:
Wonko

#24 MedEvil

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 07:57 PM

:cheers: Brilliant solution as always. :cheers:

:)




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