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#1 was_jaclaz

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 07:35 PM

There is this Russian guy, euhenio, that has posted an interesting link on the 911CD Forum:
http://www.911cd.net...o...c=19056&hl=

Page is here:
http://euhenio.mam.by/

I tried my best to understand his post after using Systran on that page, but I was still not able to understand the process:
http://www.911cd.net...o...181&st=2047

It would be nice if someone could contact him and help him traduce the page, or try the method and report more details in English so that I could jolt down the English version.

The method appears promising, it could also give us some more ideas for Winbuilder

jaclaz

#2 Oleg_II

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 02:36 PM

I'm interested to this idea too (I was in DisklessAngel office in Guangzhou and saw it myself - it's working! but I don't like the idea it will be attached firmly to your hardware :P I can pay for such kind of things but in this case I'd like to have an alternative. And we are discussing this on Ru-Board Forums as well.

I tried the method you mention this night but couldn't get any good results. But I was not following to euhenio's instructions very closely maybe that's why. I asked him a few questions about the process and after I understand it myself a bit better I'll definetely can describe the steps.

#3 was_jaclaz

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 05:20 PM

Thank you very much. :P

jaclaz

#4 Oleg_II

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 07:20 AM

HighwayStar from Ru-Board (and the member of this forum too) reported yesterday that he also successfuly used this method. Maybe it's better to ask him?

I can't reproduce it... so I'm afraid my understanding maybe wrong and the rusulting translation can only confuse you...

#5 Alexei

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 04:18 AM

Page is here:
http://euhenio.mam.by/

I've read euhenio's page.

Though, his instructions are rather unclear, I think I got his idea, which is:
- Modified (by him) GRUB4DOS reads RamDisk image into memory
- RamDisk starts as boot-time driver
- XP boots from the RAM disk
XP preparation:
- Install XP on HD
- "Install" RamDisk as boot-time driver (patch registry and copy ramdisk.sys to \system32\drivers ramdisk.sys).

As I understood:
- Modified GRUB4DOS needs SYSLINUX installed
- euhenio's method works only with XP SP2 or 2003sp1 (probably because of "ramdisk(0)" in boot.ini)
- RamDisk driver starts as boot-driver in SCSI group (see his patch at the bottom)
- In boot INI he has ramdisk(0)\WINDOWS="MOBILEOS" /rdpath=\RAM.IMG /fastdetect /SOS /BOOTLOG
- euhenio uses "super-floppy" format (to be bootable on older BIOSes)

My notes:
- even compressed, image of the whole OS needs lots of memory
- reading of image via linux is generally faster then loading dlls via BIOS (as MS Win does)
- euhenio also mentioned "unbinding from iron" [to make it portable], as I understand, that's what MedEvil is working on.
- it's unclear how he managed to tell NTLDR how to read from RamDisk before its driver is loaded (did I missed something from 911 forum?)

PS
Special boot loader can be easily written to read the image into memory via BIOS (without any linux stuff).
I may find time to do that if you tell me "how to tell NTLDR..." (see my note above).

Registry patch:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys\ControlSet001\Services\Ramdisk]

"Type"=dword:00000001

"Start"=dword:00000000

"ErrorControl"=dword:00000001

"ImagePath"=hex(2):73,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,33,00,32,00,5c,00,44,00,\

  52,00,49,00,56,00,45,00,52,00,53,00,5c,00,72,00,61,00,6d,00,64,00,69,00,73,\

  00,6b,00,2e,00,73,00,79,00,73,00,00,00

"DisplayName"="Windows RAM Disk Driver"

"Group"="SCSI Class"



[-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys\MountedDevices]



[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager]

"BootExecute"=hex(7):00,00



[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]

"PagingFiles"=hex(7):00,00


#6 HighwayStar

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 11:38 AM

HOW TO boot Win2k3/WinXP in RAM

1. nLite your win2k3/winxp distrib to get it smaller. It's important if you don't have too much RAM.
2. Install nLited win2k3/winxp. I have installed it into VMware, but it bettter to install it on real hardware because if you use VMware installation on real PC you can get a lot of troubles with drivers.
3. Turn off pagefile in installed OS and hibernate and delete pagefile.sys.
4. Now look at hard disk properties to know how much space we need on ramdisk.
5. Making RAMdisk. You need qemu-img from qemu package.
run "qemu-img.exe create -f raw "win2k3.img" 50Mb" (change 50Mb to size that you want to see on your ramdisk)
now mount win2k3.img with Filedisk and format it with NTFS. don't forget to check Use NTFS compression if you want to save some memory and disk space.
6. Copy all files from disk that you have installed nLited winXp/win2k3 to formatted ramdisk.
7. Copy ramdisk.sys from Win2k3 SP1 CD into RAMDISK:\Windows\system32\drivers
8. Now run the regedit.exe and select HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and go to File -> Load registry hive and choice RAMDISK:\Windows\system32\config\SYSTEM hive. when you asked for name of hive type "sys". Next add
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys\ControlSet001\Services\Ramdisk]

"Type"=dword:00000001

"Start"=dword:00000000

"ErrorControl"=dword:00000001

"ImagePath"=hex(2):73,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,33,00,32,00,5c,00,44,00,\

  52,00,49,00,56,00,45,00,52,00,53,00,5c,00,72,00,61,00,6d,00,64,00,69,00,73,

\

  00,6b,00,2e,00,73,00,79,00,73,00,00,00

"DisplayName"="Windows RAM Disk Driver"

"Group"="SCSI Class"



[-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys\MountedDevices]



[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager]

"BootExecute"=hex(7):00,00



[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]

"PagingFiles"=hex(7):00,00
to your registry.
select HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\sys and go to File -> Unload Registry hive
9. Now you can unmount win2k3.img with filedisk
10. Put NTLDR from win2k3 sp1 disk into C:\ (replace existing one)
Add this line to c:\boot.ini
ramdisk(0)\WINDOWS="MOBILEOS" /rdpath=\win2k3.img /fastdetect /SOS /BOOTLOG

11. That's all. Now You can try to reboot and boot-up into MOBILEOS
P.S. What is your opinion about my English?

#7 Alexei

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 12:27 PM

P.S. What is your opinion about my English?

It's understandable, at least it's better then euhenio's russian, really :P
Just some minor stuff (friendly notes):
1. "if you don't " -> "in case you don't"
2. "but it bettter" -> "but it's better"
3. "Turn off pagefile in installed OS and hibernate and delete pagefile.sys." ->"In the installed OS turn off pagefile and hibernation, delete pagefile.sys"
4. "to know how" -> "to see how"
6."disk that you have" -> "disk where you have" or "disk on which you have"
8. "choice" -> "choose"
"asked for name of hive" -> "asked for the name of the hive"
10. "Put NTLDR"->"Copy NTLDR" or "Place NTLDR"
11. "Now You" -> "Now you"
:P
Alexei

#8 was_jaclaz

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 06:08 PM

Ok, I think that with this translation one can start getting the hang of it.

Thanks. :P


About step #5:

5. Making RAMdisk. You need qemu-img from qemu package.
run "qemu-img.exe create -f raw "win2k3.img" 50Mb" (change 50Mb to size that you want to see on your ramdisk)
now mount win2k3.img with Filedisk and format it with NTFS. don't forget to check Use NTFS compression if you want to save some memory and disk space.


There are some alternate methods, like using:
Winimage
DSFOK + VDK
MKDOSFS.EXE+VDK

Links to those utilities and more here:
http://www.911cd.net...w...=11096&st=1
http://www.911cd.net...o...=14189&st=9

jaclaz

#9 dennis123123

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 09:14 PM

My super tutorial, tried and tested :P

http://www.911cd.net...&...st&p=127683

dennis123123

#10 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 09:32 AM

VERY good! :P

:P

jaclaz

#11 Oleg_II

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 06:12 PM

I'm in :P

I was not successful with running it using Windows 2000 (maybe did something wrong or it's just impossible to do with W2k). But I tried XP today...

Do you know where I'm writing this from? :P
Everything seems to be working - all programs that were installed when the system was on hard disk and drivers for my hardware. Great! I'm in RAM and I'm here with you! :P

Bravo euhenio and HighwayStar! :P

Now why not to create a project in WinBuilder with this great finding?

1. Take the smallest set of files after running nLite (delete EVERYTHING that is possible in this program).
2. Take Regestry from FULL XP installation (install as many components and languages as possible).
3. Add components with scripts like we are doing right now (in fact only adding files will be needed for the start).
4. Delete some regestry settings that interfere normal working system after the build - will need a lot of work.
5. Add some universal drivers, files and settings to the regestry too by normal WB scripts.

#12 MedEvil

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 06:36 PM

I'm in :P

I was not successful with running it using Windows 2000 (maybe did something wrong or it's just impossible to do with W2k). But I tried XP today...

Do you know where I'm writing this from? :P
Everything seems to be working - all programs that were installed when the system was on hard disk and drivers for my hardware. Great! I'm in RAM and I'm here with you! :P

Bravo euhenio and HighwayStar! :P

Now why not to create a project in WinBuilder with this great finding?

1. Take the smallest set of files after running nLite (delete EVERYTHING that is possible in this program).
2. Take Regestry from FULL XP installation (install as many components and languages as possible).
3. Add components with scripts like we are doing right now (in fact only adding files will be needed for the start).
4. Delete some regestry settings that interfere normal working system after the build - will need a lot of work.
5. Add some universal drivers, files and settings to the regestry too by normal WB scripts.


How big is your ramdisk?
And i'm afraid to ask, but how many TB ram do you have in your machine? :P

#13 Oleg_II

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 07:41 PM

MedEvil
Test computer has only 512MB - not a very big deal. I think it will be possible to work in 256MB as well - my ramdisk is 256MB (about 36MB is free on it) and takes about 58MB in memory but I'm sure it is possible to make it much smaller :P

PS And as far as I know euhenio has only 256MB :P

#14 Oleg_II

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 08:14 PM

Tried it from USB stick - works!

But... The system in image was made on one computer with PS/2 mouse and the same keyboard. I tested USB stick on my notebook and was not able to use mouse and keyboard - I didn't delete USB support in nLite but needed files were cabbed in Driver.CAB and I can't even do a move without mouse and keyboard.

I think some hardware of this kind should be pre-installed on the image system just to avoid such issues. It can be done with edited USBSupport.Script (very small modifications are needed).

The same problem could be with different HAL but I can't test it right now.

#15 was_jaclaz

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 09:00 PM

To save some ram, please consider my "random idea" #3:
http://www.911cd.net...o...19056&st=39

jaclaz

#16 man2

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 07:15 AM

Hello from newbie. Not sure if ok to ask for help in this thread but seems right place. I have tried method posted of booting XP into Ram by Highway star and also followed method of Dennis123123 Here. I followed instructions very carefully from both guys but till now I still have no success booting xp into RAM. So here are some stats from me
I used Nlite and created small build. I use this to make VMWARE disk and all that.. I also installed nlited xp on partition 2 of a hard drive and it works no prob as I am typing now from this.Well after compressing VMWARE image it was about 570 meg or around this.Well I add contents to image file made with filedisk which formatted and compressed ntfs. I made it about 800meg. ( Maybe too big>>keep under <<500 meg>perhaps) . Now I add Ramdisk.sys version 5.2.3790.1289 22kbs in size file from Win2003 SRV SP1. I add this to mounted disk image made with filedisk.. Ok so far so good.Now i get a bit confused. Should I

1. keep on filedisk created image the XP sp2 ntldr, ntdetect.com and boot.ini with just normal entry that VMWARE disk has but which installed to hard disk nlited XP sp2 does not as it is on partition 2 of hard drive and there fore no boot files on this partition two.
This is that boot.ini from Vmware disk code:
[codebox][boot loader] [timeout=30 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT [/codebox] 2. Or regardless of whether i copy files from mounted VMWARE DISK or from Hard drive partition TWO ( have to add boot files in this case) to filedisk mounted image do I leave out XP SP2 ntldr, NTDETECT.com and boot.ini with code as above. So what structure here. I am clear about what boot files should be on boot hard drive partition ie setupldr.bin from win2003 Srv sp1 Renamed as NTLDR. The modified boot.ini with added entry [codebox]ramdisk(0)\WINDOWS="XP into RAM" /rdpath=\WIN.IMG /fastdetect /SOS /BOOTLOG[/codebox] And NTDETECT.COM from xp sp2. Is that correct? OkWell these are error messages which may assist more knowledgable ones in helping me. After reboot with THE ntldr from win2003 SRV SP1i have no boot menu from modified boot.ini. Afte ra moment all I see is message " Inf file txtsetup.sif is corrupt or missing, status 14. Setup cannot continue. Press any key to exit.." Ok so I have to use PE disk to copy back backup ntldr from xp sp2 to boot partition rebboot to get back into system. Ok so I now try using NTLDR from win2003 srv sp1 on filedisk created disk image (WIN.IMG I call it) I reboot again and as expected this time get boot menu but when choosing to ram boot WIN.IMG a receive new message now " Windows could not start due to an error while booting from a ramdisk. Windows failed to open ramdisk image.."
Ok so now I reboot again and sit and think. I try various combinatiosn of this and that boot files on either boot partition or filedisk created ram boot image WIN.IMG.

So do you think 800MEG ram image too big maybe. Well I try with 490 MEG image after using xplite on installed nlited installation on partition two and reduce size by geting rid IE etc.So i reformat filedisk image win.img and copy slimmer XP files to that. I even uppercase all files in case that a problem. Still get same messages depending on which NTLDR i use.

ok. So where to now??

Some one then just spell out exact structure of filedisk created image in plain simple english.
something like
what exact boot files if any on filedisk imaage and what operating system they from. Can be clear please about this. Don't want to be putting wrong NTLDR on filedisk image ( that's if have to put it on at all)

And also confirm that apart from NTLDR from win2003 srv sp1 and modified boot.ini on booot partition i am using ok ntdetect.com ( just the one from XP sp2 that installs as usual in boot partition when you install xp)

Sorry if post ramble on . Hope to hear some clear instructions from you super people

regards from man2 :P

#17 Oleg_II

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 08:06 AM

Well after compressing VMWARE image it was about 570 meg or around this.Well I add contents to image file made with filedisk which formatted and compressed ntfs. I made it about 800meg. ( Maybe too big>>keep under <<500 meg>perhaps) .

So your image is bigger than 500MB? If so - no way to boot with ramdisk! It can support the images under 500MB.

A tip: while in a system on C: install all you programs you are going to use in MobileOS on disk D: and don't include them into image. Then move or copy them on disk C:
When you boot into MobileOS you will be able to run them directly from your hard disk! :P

#18 was_jaclaz

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 08:49 AM

@man2

It seems to me that you made TWO conceptual mistakes:
1) as said disk image MUST be smaller than 500 Mb; being it formatted as NTFS compressed, it will probably store something near 850 Mb of "normal" data
2) The Euhenio/dennis123123 method, detailed here:
http://www.911cd.net...o...19056&st=20
is for a "full" XP boot from RAM, the PE boot from RAM is here:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=19333

Now, XP/2003 boot from NTLDR+BOOT.INI+NTDETECT.COM, whilst PE boots from SETUPLDR.BIN (renamed eventually to NTLDR)+WINNT.SIF+NTDETECT.COM.

You are using a renamed SETUPLDR.BIN with BOOT.INI, it simply won't work, if you are booting a "full" XP use "real" NTLDR.

jaclaz

#19 man2

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 09:33 AM

So your image is bigger than 500MB? If so - no way to boot with ramdisk! It can support the images under 500MB.

A tip: while in a system on C: install all you programs you are going to use in MobileOS on disk D: and don't include them into image. Then move or copy them on disk C:
When you boot into MobileOS you will be able to run them directly from your hard disk! :P


When I say I reformatted filedisk created disk image I should say that I did this after I created new image with new size o around 480 Meg uncompressed size. Does this sound good?? and right size. I take advice about leaving behidn programs when adding nlited xp to filedisk image and running later from har drive. Save some space in fact about 130meg in my case. I run music app directly from what I hope is ram booting xp so i can not have to hear nosiy hard drive so that could be prob with running from hard drive instead of ram but I see.




@ Jaclaz

I can see what you mean about setupldr.bin but how can one use otherwise when this is file off w2k3 sp1 is it not. Don't you have to rename this one as NTLDR or is it somwhere as NTLDR in that sp1 package. Or have to install win2003 with sp1 to get NTLDR in boot root. Please excuse me if i sound dumb. Maybe a bit but learning about these things. You have extensive knowledge from other reads I make in this place and elsewhere and I feel good that you took time to make some reply to me.

So regards to both oleg and you and all everyone else
PS I try euhenio tip about xp loading from cd into ram but even this didn't work for me. Maybe NTLDR. Maybe someone can can say more about this .

PPS. What about NTDETECT.COM . IS XP sp2 version ok and right for all this ram booting of XP or do I need also it from w2k3 sp1

edit!!! I see now that NTLDR is maybe setuplder.exe in wk23 sp1 . Is this right and I just rename to NTLDR.

#20 was_jaclaz

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 08:00 PM

@man2

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you can also rename notepad.exe to NTLDR, though I doubt it will work. :P

You need NTLDR, NOT any other file renamed to NTLDR!

The file is in the \I386 folder of any Server 2003 CD, you might want to download the TRIAL here if you don't have it:
http://www.microsoft...al/default.mspx

jaclaz

#21 man2

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 01:46 AM

@ Jaclaz.
I feel stupid not seeing this NTLDR right under my nose in w2k3. There it is and now and I will try this all with proper file. Thankyou for help and I confirm that renaming notepad.exe to NTLDR not working :P

So all thanks to the guys with good knowledge

regards from man2 :P

#22 slden

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:21 PM

А по русски здесь кто то умеет писать

#23 NightMan

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 09:04 AM

да, но зачем? :cheers:

#24 HighwayStar

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 10:29 AM

Òóò íèêòî íå ïèøåò ïî-ðóññêè ïîòîìó ÷òî åñòü ïðîáëåìà ñ êîäèðîâêîé. Âîò ïîñòû âûøå íàïèñàíû â êîäèðîâêå WestEurope 8859-1, ÷òî åñòü íåïðàâèëüíî.
Íàäî ÷òîáû áûëà ôèêñèðîâàííàÿ êîäèðîâêà windows cp1251 èëè koi8-r

translit: chtoby prochitat' vyshe vkluchite v brauzere kodirovku cp1251
en: nothing intresting here, just test of russian codepages.

#25 NightMan

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Posted 24 April 2007 - 07:24 AM

HighwayStar
может лучше сразу utf8? ... интересно, почему сообщение от slden прочиталось запросто. а твое нет? проблемы с кодировкой может и есть, но работает же как то :cheers:




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