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Boot vistape from USB stick?


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#1 bluespy

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 06:17 AM

Boot vistape from USB stick?

If then, how can I make this file?

#2 was_jaclaz

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 09:51 AM

I have no familiarity with VistaPE, can anyone describe how it boots normally, it probably can be booted from USB too, but there might be need of some patched files.

jaclaz

#3 valentin

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:31 PM

Hi,

compared to BartPE on a stick, WinPE 2.0 (VistaPE) is easy going.

1. Prepare your stick with diskpart (which is a tool included in the Windows AIK and Vista\System32 as well) .
[codebox]diskpart list disk select disk <discnumber> clean create partition primary size=<size of usbstick> select partition 1 active format fs=fat32 assign exit[/codebox] 2. Copy all the files from the Target-folder or copy your VistaPE-DVD onto the usbstick. (The contents of the usbstick has to look like the CD/DVD).

3. Boot from usbstick (this is the tricky part; because not every BIOS does allow booting from usbstick)

#4 was_jaclaz

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:44 PM

Valentin,
sorry but wouldn't the

format fs=fat32

command write a bootsector that invokes NTLDR?

Or WinPE 2.0 uses a file named NTLDR instead of the more common setupldr.bin?

In other words, can you run a
Dir /S D&#58; >C&#58;\winpe2dir.txt

(assuming that C: is a HD and D: is the CDrom containing a WinPE 2.0 buid)

And attach the resulting file here?

Thanks in advance.

About:

3. Boot from usbstick (this is the tricky part; because not every BIOS does allow booting from usbstick)

One must make sure that the combo motherboard/stick is bootable BEFORE losing time to build anything and later find out that it doesn't boot...

jaclaz

#5 valentin

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 08:59 AM

[quote name='jaclaz' post='8874' date='Feb 8 2007, 04:44 PM']Valentin,
sorry but wouldn't the
command write a bootsector that invokes NTLDR?

Or WinPE 2.0 uses a file named NTLDR instead of the more common setupldr.bin?

In other words, can you run a
L:.|   bootmgr|   +---boot|   |   bcd|   |   boot.sdi|   |   bootfix.bin|   |   etfsboot.com|   |   |   \---fonts|           chs_boot.ttf|           cht_boot.ttf|           jpn_boot.ttf|           kor_boot.ttf|           wgl4_boot.ttf|           +---efi|   \---microsoft|       \---boot|           |   bcd|           |   |           \---fonts|                   chs_boot.ttf|                   cht_boot.ttf|                   jpn_boot.ttf|                   kor_boot.ttf|                   wgl4_boot.ttf|                   \---Sources        boot.wim
Vista doesnt come with a NTLDR. It is now replaced by bootmgr. By the way: There are some unneeded files on my stick. eg. all the files in \efi and bootfix.bin WinPE 2.0 doesnt show "press any key to boot from cd..." It should be "press any key to boot from usb..." anyways.

And you can use NTFS as filesystem as well. I just tried.

#6 was_jaclaz

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 11:33 AM

Thank you very much, Valentin.

About

And you can use NTFS as filesystem as well. I just tried.


Though it works for you, it is NOT the recommended thing to do, as a large number of motherboards are not compatible with boting from NTFS, a lot of people tried to and gave up assuming that their motherboard or their stick was not bootable, while they later worked in FAT 16 or FAT32.

I cannot stress enough that one must make sure first thing that the stick is bootable with FAT16 filesystem, then try with FAT 32 and only later try NTFS.

Check my FAQ #10:
http://home.graffiti...SB/USBfaqs.html]

and this report from sangin:
http://www.911cd.net...o...181&st=1880

jaclaz

#7 MedEvil

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 01:04 PM

Though it works for you, it is NOT the recommended thing to do, as a large number of motherboards are not compatible with boting from NTFS, a lot of people tried to and gave up assuming that their motherboard or their stick was not bootable, while they later worked in FAT 16 or FAT32.

Most peculiar! :P
Does anyone know why? The BIOS shouldn't care at all what filesystem is used, in fact it shouldn't even know what a filesystem is! :P

#8 was_jaclaz

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 02:16 PM

Does anyone know why? The BIOS shouldn't care at all what filesystem is used, in fact it shouldn't even know what a filesystem is!


Actually it is quite simple, the BIOS code has been poorly written.

Please follow me, though the following are just my ideas on the problem, and I have no way to prove them:
1. The BIOS needs to make sure that the first sector of the device is either a MBR or Boot sector, this is usually done by checking the "magic" signature 55AA in last two bytes
2. Then it can check whether the first is a MBR or a bootsector, this can be done by checking first bytes of it, or the check can be alltogether avoided by providing different choices in BIOS settings, typically HDD - FDD - ZIP
3. Then it has to "decide" if the reported geometry of the device is consistent with info in this first sector, this can be again be done by checking info written on the first sector, which in the case of a MBR is always in a fixed location, MBR being independent from filesystems, whilst in the case of a boot sector it can be in different locations
4. Then it can check both reported geometries against hard-coded one (as an example some BIOSes that ony boot from external 1.44 Mb floppy disks)
5. Then it can check if the byte describing first active partition in the MBR matches one hardcoded, typically 06 (BIGDOS FAT 16) and this can be done against all entries in the MBR partition table, against just first entry or against just 4th entry (ZIP drive)

As you can see in just 4 points (the 1st one is a fixed requirement) I introduced reasonable "forks" that can generate a number between 2^3 and 2^4 of different possibilities or paths along which the BIOS code could have been written.

Since the most used filesystem on floppies is FAT12, it is possible that BIOS that only has code for non-partitioned devices only accepts FAT12.

By the same reasoning, since the most historically used filesystem on partitioned devices is FAT16, and remember that first USB flash devices were rather small in size and all of them came pre-formatted as FAT16, it is very likely that the BIOS only accepts FAT16.

Or it is, even more likely that it is simply a BIOS bug, that was not found because all testing was done on FAT16 formatted devices.....

A later release of the BIOS might fix the problem, or worsen it, as an example:
http://syslinux.zyto...ust/007094.html


jaclaz

#9 MedEvil

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 02:52 PM

Nice explaination! :P
Unfortunately i can not quite agree.
BIOS does not care about a wrong geometry. I've seen enough HDDs recognized by the BIOS as smaller than they really are, that work just fine with full capacity under Linux or a NT-systems.
All that is required is that the MBR/bootsector can be read and that the files named in the bootsector are accessable, with the set drive geometry.

If things would work more like you suggest, only filesystems known to the BIOS would work and that's just not the case.

PS: Even a floppy can be NTFS formatted.

:P

#10 was_jaclaz

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:54 PM

Medevil,

I am not saying that ALL BIOSes actually DO that.

What I am saying is that some BIOSes CAN do that.

"GOOD" BIOSes, like the one you describe, actually BOOT with any filesystem, from HD, FD or ZIP like devices and USB CD ROMs.

"BAD" BIOSes that work more like I describe, DO NOT have the same capability.

Read again the report from sangin I previously linked to:
http://www.911cd.net...o...181&st=1880

and give me an alternate explanation.

PS: Even a floppy can be NTFS formatted.

Yep, though not a very smart thing to do, If I remember correctly, last time I did it, almost ten years ago, I got about 500Kb available on floppy after formatting it.
http://www.sysintern...es/NtfsFlp.html

#11 mikeearwood

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 03:29 PM

Hi,

compared to BartPE on a stick, WinPE 2.0 (VistaPE) is easy going.

1. Prepare your stick with diskpart (which is a tool included in the Windows AIK and Vista\System32 as well) .

diskpartlist diskselect disk <discnumber>cleancreate partition primary size=<size of usbstick>select partition 1activeformat fs=fat32assignexit
2. Copy all the files from the Target-folder or copy your VistaPE-DVD onto the usbstick. (The contents of the usbstick has to look like the CD/DVD).3. Boot from usbstick (this is the tricky part; because not every BIOS does allow booting from usbstick)

I tried this with the latest version of Vista PE and I get the dreaded (blue screen 07B error) on boot up. This usb thumb drive has worked well with Linux, BartPE, Reatogo, and even Winbuilder with the modified ntdetect.com file, but I can't get it to boot with VistaPE. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

#12 BiboTheClown

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 12:39 PM

I tried this with the latest version of Vista PE and I get the dreaded (blue screen 07B error) on boot up. This usb thumb drive has worked well with Linux, BartPE, Reatogo, and even Winbuilder with the modified ntdetect.com file, but I can't get it to boot with VistaPE. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mike


Same for me : BSOD after boot start... I've replaced my laptop HD with the USB one and it booted like a charm...

USB bus reset ?

Any idea ??

#13 JonF

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 01:46 PM

I've tried it (with a stick and computer on which I can boot BartPE) and failed; didn't even get as far as a BSOD. I set it aside while I'm working on other things. But I wonder if the diskpart.exe has to be the Vista version; the XP version (5.1.3565) and the version I got with the WAIK (same version; did this really come with the WAIK?) both do not so a "format" command.

#14 BiboTheClown

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 07:22 PM

I've tried it (with a stick and computer on which I can boot BartPE) and failed; didn't even get as far as a BSOD. I set it aside while I'm working on other things. But I wonder if the diskpart.exe has to be the Vista version; the XP version (5.1.3565) and the version I got with the WAIK (same version; did this really come with the WAIK?) both do not so a "format" command.


Yep, the v5 version doesn't have the format option. U must use the v6 included in Vista.
I guess that there are numerous way to make a USB HD bootable, the one using diskpart seems simple, but I've tried another : installing a regular Vista first, then remove all files & folders and just copied the VistaPE ones. I suppose that another one would be to use Grub, as it is used in VistaPE yet...

If grub was possible, that could be the easier and best way...

#15 sebus

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 01:16 PM

Anybody managed to boot VistaPE from USB?

My stick gets accessed during boot then just sits there with cursor in the top left corner & nothinghappens

sebus

#16 jtgamble

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 09:56 PM

Anybody managed to boot VistaPE from USB?

My stick gets accessed during boot then just sits there with cursor in the top left corner & nothinghappens

sebus


I've been able to get it to boot from a USB stick, but I've only gotten so far as the black screen/cursor. Whenever I try to do a build that doesn't use the boot.wim, I run into blue screens.

#17 JonF

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:05 PM

Closest I've gotten is a black screen with "Missing operating system" at the top. That was with a stick formatted under VistaPE using diskpart.

#18 Alexei

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:30 PM

Closest I've gotten is a black screen with "Missing operating system" at the top. That was with a stick formatted under VistaPE using diskpart.

Delete partition, then create it and format.
Don't forget to make partition "Active"
If it didn't work, delete partition and then create and format it from the installation (if it's possible).
:cheers:
Alexei

#19 ThatOneGuy

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 04:37 PM

Using the method valentin posted I was able to get VistaPE booting from USB. It has worked in both NTFS and FAT32 format on a variety of Dell desktops and Lenovo laptops made in the last 5 years. I'm using a packed boot.wim and haven't tried without.

Like I said, I basically did what valentin posted.

Your flash drive needs to be plugged in with the Vista OS running.
Go to the command prompt and type "diskpart".
Type "list disk" to find your flash drive.
select disk 1 (assuming disk 1 was listed as the jump drive.)
clean
create partition primary
select partition 1
active
format fs=fat32
assign
exit

Since this is my first post I'd like to thank nunobrito, nightman, and others that have worked on the VistaPE project. Very well done! :cheers:

#20 jtgamble

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 09:44 PM

What version of VistaPE are you using? I'm using the latest version and can't get it to boot past a black screen with the mouse cursor. Getting it to boot hasn't been a problem.

#21 Dan Woods

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 12:19 AM

I had an issue where I could not get a plain jane PE 2.0 booting via USB until I had done a BOOTSECT /NT60 x: (where x is the letter of your USB drive) after doing the fat32 format from within PE 2.0. I believe the reason they say that you must perform the USB stick format from within vista is to get the /NT60 bootsector loaded.

Alto I don't know if this will cure any issues with VistaPE, (as I haven't tried to USB boot it yet) it might be worth a shot for you guys that are having problems.

#22 ThatOneGuy

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 01:03 PM

It's worked for me with 007 and 008. When I tried using disk part in XP it would give me the blinking cursor. Then I got it working by using diskpart from Vista. Good luck!

#23 m_limmer

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 10:19 AM

Yep that's right.

diskpart is only supported in windows vista or vista pe....

Using diskpart in XP won't display your usb stick as a drive like your hard disk, which makes it impossible to prepare your usb stick.

#24 Nimrod

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 05:32 PM

It was working for me this way:

Open the Windows PE-Tools DOS Window from WAIK and entered: bootsect.exe /nt60 DriveLetter: And then I copied the content of the CD to the USB drive. Done! I'm using a PNY 4 GB stick.

#25 jtgamble

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 10:33 PM

It was working for me this way:

Open the Windows PE-Tools DOS Window from WAIK and entered: bootsect.exe /nt60 DriveLetter: And then I copied the content of the CD to the USB drive. Done! I'm using a PNY 4 GB stick.


Are you using a boot.wim?




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