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WinBuilder 080


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#26 pecd.net

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 08:01 PM

well, i tried the one from nativeEx_win7 (download two weeks ago...) ist there a new one? if not, it simply does not work with 3.1.4 vb....and please let us discuss this in the other thread...has not much to do with wb 080...

#27 paraglider

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 08:52 PM

I disagree that bartpe is stagnant. It does what it always did - build xp based versions of PE very quickly. Its what I still use for my XP PE builds.

#28 was_JFX

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 08:55 PM

Yes, I am proud of wb's development.

Very sad to read this, it doesn't sound if there would something change in future.

The "art" of wb's development is simply said trash! (this name is not given by me)

You can not take a random version of current development and present this as stable release.

To release a stable, which has more bugs than most betas, is obviously not the best idea.

Go on release every couple of months a new stable, but don't wonder if nobody wants to use it.

#29 MedEvil

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 09:21 PM

Could we now please stop, to go all overboard, about how bad WB is?

Yes the development cycle is like in kindergarden. Not my favorite approach eighter.
But to declare WB trash, unusable in general and so one, just doesn't do it justice eighter, not to mention the people, who put a lot of their free time into it. For free not to forget!

:smiling9:

#30 Max_Real Qnx

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 09:22 PM

Hi Nuno Brito :cheers:

I have tested the VistaPE Leopard Beta 3 with the WinBuilder 080. I have not encountered any errors. WinBuilder 080 is working really well :smiling9:

I think, errors in the former project occur due to incorrect code so former projects should be revised. Because WinBuilder 080 does not forgive mistakes, everyone should try to write correct code. I am writing now codes with the WinBuilder 080 so I can see more easily broken code.

You 're really doing a great job, I'm thank you very much Nuno Brito :cheers:

Best regards :cheers:

#31 Lancelot

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 09:32 PM

@MedEvil,

Trouble is not the mistake, I guess we are all tolerant to any mistakes on development, the annoying part is it is same things repeating itsself.
I also agree it is enough to put critics too.

The critics main reason is (at least for me) we really want a trustable winbuilder, so when we write script it should be working without troubles for a reallllly long time.
As i wrote before, with next release, I feel we will make a good step towards this trustability (=stability) goal and I only hope this time (at last) will be a good experience about releasing new versions.

@Max_Real Qnx

This is not about rewriting scripts for more strick rules (and I am one of the user who support strick rules with readibility and always agreed to fix things on scripts)
I will pm you critical bug details so you can check in your tests easly. :smiling9:

#32 TheHive

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 09:32 PM

Thanks for the work and release.

#33 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 08:54 AM

@Nuno

I guess I need to clarify the meaning of my comments.

I can see the huge amount of efforts and work a number of members and psc as "main developer", everyday put into Winbuilder, and I am too very happy, and if you want "proud" of the dedication that these good guys show :( , what I am saying is that only a very small part of these efforts produce valid results, and this only happens because there is no "plan".

If you want, Winbuilder development is taking the sentence "play it by ear" to a whole new dimension.

As an engineer I find the efficiency of this machine very, very low, given that you put 100% in you get as an output no more than 20%, 80% being wasted in internal friction or leaks.

:smiling9:

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#34 Nuno Brito

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 05:25 PM

I guess I need to clarify the meaning of my comments.

You're right as always.

I'll keep updated an expected timeline of each development phase so that we can all follow, talk and modify it as needed.

:smiling9:

#35 Max_Real Qnx

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 07:35 PM

Hi Nuno Brito :lol:

Why this nice feature was not added to the WinBuilder 080 ?

23.02.png


Best regards ;)

#36 Nuno Brito

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 07:42 PM

It was moved to the column on the left part of the window together with the rest of the palette.

Unfortunately, there was a cosmetic bug that is already being addressed by Peter today.

We'll just do a silent upgrade since this is not a critical issue and you'll be able to use it shortly.

:lol:

#37 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:13 PM

We'll just do a silent upgrade since this is not a critical issue and you'll be able to use it shortly.

:lol:

Good :rolleyes: so we will have a "stable" 080 and a "enhanced stable" 080 (with only a minor graphical correction).

This, in English, means TWO different versions, no matter if the difference is minimal and noone will notice it.

And as soon as another negligible problem is found we will have "enhanced stable" 080 Mark II ;), and so on.

It's EXACTLY what we are trying to avoid or at least it's what it has been declared as a goal of the "next" release model.


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#38 Lancelot

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:35 PM

WinBuilder Development Plan goes to the trash.

"snow of yesterday" shows "storms of future" "snow of tomorrow"

I do not want more cold days with wb development, so I decide to put my comment on wb development.

Now I see a set old "politic tricks" that will result to go back to old days. :rolleyes:

and my comments already gone to the trash. And sadly my concerns turn out to be right again.

Back to old Gamble wb version times. :lol:;)

#39 MedEvil

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:24 PM

I don't care, what anybody else says, i'm very happy with WB080. And once the interface editor bug is fixed, it will become the best WB version since 072!

Even though i agree with Lancelot, that the best of all possible ways would have been, if there would have been just one release of 080 and that would have been perfect.
I have to say, that if i never see a SP version again, it will be too soon, after that debacle with the 078SPs, where SP became the same meaning as Beta. ;)

:lol:

#40 Lancelot

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:31 PM

I don't care, what anybody else says, i'm very happy with WB080.

"WB080 revised1" and I agree ;)

And once the interface editor bug is fixed, it will become the best WB version since 072!

and I again agree with hope :lol:
(ehm, since there is no model anymore, I guess it will be released directly, I can not cross my fingers anymore since they were broken once at wb078sp6 ;) )

I have to say, that if i never see a SP version again

I do not want to see any sp, rc extra too.

I guess there is some kind of "conservative" feeling about version number along coders and with our development.
Reminding them, it is only an even number. make next version 082 even with a hot fix.

Do not let numbers scare you :rolleyes:

#41 Virtual-R

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 08:51 AM

Hmmm, i am reading this discussion with high interest and i feel that this sets people in two categories.

I work as a computer technican, and one of my main tasks is to always "get-to-know" new software, for example about 40-50% of all the programs in my main os are in beta stage. This is because I need to know "what happends in the future" for our customers when they upgrade. For example I tested Windows Vista and windows 7 many many months before they got released, this way i could help my colleagues the first months with things they didn't new about these operating systems when they shipped.

One of my colleagues would never dream of even touching a beta or pre-release with his eyes. (Crappy english from me, sorry). Me, I love unstable unpredictable programs (yes, i really do). But the problem I think, is that both types of people need justice. The biggest problem here, is that I nearly never see betas gets released here. It is better to just often release betas, and polish them to the level when beta-lovers like me and probobly many else say "this works", and at this stage renaming it to RC, (more people will try RC's), and when no negative response is being reported, making it final.

This is the way many software devolopers work, people like me don't have to wait several months to try a new version, and people like my colleague will not need to get a program that maybe isn't ready, and those people tend to have more patience then me too! :lol:

Anyway, this was my thoughts, finally, want to add that Boot Land and it's members should be VERY PROUD over themselves. Helping eatchother everyday and sharing experiences, Winbuilder is a great program and I will always be greatful for all the great replies and discussions that you find here.

#42 Lancelot

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:40 AM

Hi Virtual-R

You misread something I guess :rolleyes:

Me, I love unstable unpredictable programs (yes, i really do).

Than love winbuilder. :rolleyes:

I nearly never see betas gets released here.

Here they are http://winbuilder.net/download.php (as far as i am around I know all versions after 074 are "official" betas). They are not different from unofficial betas.

no negative response is being reported, making it final.

This never happened (which makes all "official"= betas or alphas ! or trash ! or ....name it).

Here things goes following way Virtual-R: development team (Nuno+psc) make a decision to publish at an unknown moment in time without asking others test. Others only test after this moment which always resulted with a critical bug report within a week (or hours).

Numerous requests made to fix this development behaviour.

With this last disaster (wb080 initial) after requests (again) a Development Plan made here, Commented here Development Plan Comment and already written at current topic that it will be overruled.

It is sad not seeing wb project spread around and supported widely. It is understandable a lot number of people not wanting to spend time on scripts that have great potential of not working in future. Even with knowing I can make nice winbuilder scripts for my personal tasks, I personally like and make batches (.cmd) knowing i will not need to fix them again and again and again......

Instead some people (wb idea lovers) (ex: me) take the risks, and spend very unefficient time for the progress. (and it is quite understandable, people who even know project and scripting verrry well not pushing that hard on topics)

Anyway, with this unefficient development routine, with continuous support from winbuilder lovers and numerous bug reports from individuals, we came to wb080 revised1 which is very good compared to any previous. (well, not that much good to say scripts you will make today will work tomorrow and will be either revised again or new version will be published to fix interface issue)


Lets see what will happen in future. I learned this unefficient development routine (which could be easly fixed with 1 - 2 decisions) at my first days of boot-land and accepted to live with that, because opposite to wb development unefficieny, wb project (and script) maintain efficieny (when authors available) is very high which proves many also loves wb idea. (yesss, all see the potential.....)

With other words we have 3 type of active winbuilder boot-landers:
1) ones who are not around anymore (mostly their scripts do not work anymore, but these scripts are very nice begining to make a new one ;) )
2) ones who support their scripts (due to wb changing behaviour and/or requests)
3) ones who support scripts and wb development by taking a set of risks. (requires a loooot time due to a set of never fixed and never awared (accepted) uneffiency issues)

Life Goes, it was a nice experince to me (with having lots of free time) being in 3rd group for a long while
:lol:

#43 Galapo

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:54 AM

we came to wb080 revised1 which is very good compared to any previous.

So do you think we're close to being able to use 080 with LiveXP? I haven't tested 080rev1 -- is it available at the trash link? How do I determine if my 080 is rev1 or the initial release?

Thanks,
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#44 Lancelot

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:16 AM

I haven't tested 080rev1 -- is it available at the trash link? How do I determine if my 080 is rev1 or the initial release?

they are all official WinBuilder080.zip
Now I also get another suprise.
due to WinBuilder080.zip md5:
initial release md5 (I call born death): FA0AEC6C358E8A4A551B33542B55FE5B
the one I luckly learned there is a new one (I call revised 1, critical bug fix) md5: 7DDD6F71A6C7515E1D3ABF4B3FC56D4F
and now I get the surprise. Just downloaded and aware there is new (I call revised 2, interface fix) md5: 7FB5162D103126447FAB09A6A99E573C

http://winbuilder.ne...oad.php?view.51

I already commented on this when noticed a revised 1 exists

btw, I luckly noticed there is revised 080 available ! I checked WinBuilder 080 topic but could not see the annoucment. ........ But I guess everybody who test on the first days avoids 080 wrongly like me, maybe better to make a small annoucment there ?!
Anyway, I hope this is the last hotupdate with any improvment model choosen in future. :lol:

All these happens because development not ask green flag from testers. (or shorty, they do not change behaviour and declared Development Plan born death as expected by me).

Reminding: critical bug found ~6 hours later (and noticed 1 day before) and interface bug found ~36 hours (time difference due to lost motivation to search bugs) later on develpment topic.


So do you think we're close to being able to use 080 with LiveXP?

as you see, I have not tested yet. But I believe (hope) we're close to being able to use 080. (give me 2-3 days, since i see things are unstable, I do not want to spend much time on this, besides I have other things to do.....)

#45 Galapo

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:31 AM

So 080 at winbuilder.net is being updated, but how are we to know this and what version we have.

I've just downloaded 080 package there, but file version remains at 77.101.0.0:

Posted Image

Using Message,%version% just returns 080. So if we wanted to specify LiveXP for use with 080rev2 and not 080 initial or 080rev1, how would we go about this? By md5 check?

Thanks,
Galapo.

#46 Virtual-R

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:46 AM

Thanks for the explantion Lancelot! A very good post explaining everything. I have also learned to live with it, but I am not
sure everybody does. What I ment with the beta section is, that it would be better to release more betas for the public to test, to ensure that when going final most of the things works as expected.

I have had the luck that most of those scripts i made myself have worked with the new versions, but that's probobly because they most of the time are pretty simple. :lol:

I also wonder, if the revised version has a tag or something in the program that makes the user know if he/she runs this fixed version ?

Thank you again for your answer !

#47 Lancelot

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:47 AM

I've just downloaded 080 package there, but file version remains at 77.101.0.0:


file version always remained 77.101 (it was added with WinBuilder078 but never changed, I asked psc long time ago that it should reflect wb version, but it is ignored and i decide not to spend time to re-request again)

Using Message,%version% just returns 080. So if we wanted to specify LiveXP for use with 080rev2 and not 080 initial or 080rev1, how would we go about this? By md5 check?

yep, I think something like this:

If,%version%,smaller,080,Halt
Else,run,%scriptfile%,versioncheck

[versioncheck]
If,%version%,equal,080 .... md5 blabla

***
I asked interface fix to be 082 on current topic... no reply and I got the reply some minutes ago.

I guess there is some kind of "conservative" feeling about version number along coders and with our development.
Reminding them, it is only an even number. make next version 082 even with a hot fix.

Do not let numbers scare you :lol:


***
btw, my previous md5 list is for winbuilder080.zip, here is list for winbuilder.exe
due to winbuilder.exe
initial, born death md5 : 40DF818B0681ED2EDD9EE0FCB7F54DF6
revised 1, critical bug fix md5: 0865CC6472DD05EB7C612CB42F07B636
revised 2, interface fix md5: 5EF4D146796EF0B0974E40676132E461

#48 pscEx

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:47 AM

Using Message,%version% just returns 080.

Message,%Build% :lol:

Peter :rolleyes:

#49 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:54 AM

File Version 77.101.0.0

Message,%Build% = possibly 80.something
Message,%Version% = 80

Current codename = wb080 revised1

Wonko the Sane's friendly, Ubuntu-like name code= "Demented cercopithecoid" :rolleyes:

You people have too much fun in creating confusion :rolleyes: to deserve the time it would take me to fully express a proper comment on the utter stoopidity of this. : :lol:

;)

Wonko

#50 Galapo

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 11:59 AM

Is %build% in the WB Editor wand? It's escaped my attention previously.

%build% just returns '2010-Feb-23 16:06'. This isn't really usable with If,BIGGER etc. If %Version% returned something like 080.2.0.0 that would be better I think.

Thanks,
Galapo.




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