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WinBuilder Running on Windows 98


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#76 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 04:13 PM

Hmmm. :cheers:

I cannot make a "straight, working" build from that version. :(

Anyway, this works for me, in the sense that it works UNTIL I get to the SAME error in Qemu, no matter if I try with the .iso or with the .iso image on (virtual) hard disk.


Let's start from the "current" (the ones in version dated Aug 21 2010 01:04:25 AM) (inside the floppy image BOOT.IMA)

Autoexec.bat:
A:\DOS\xmsdsk 96000 X: /t /y /c2

A:\DOS\DOSlfn

A:\DOS\shsucdx /d:oemCD001 /L:Y

copy start.bat X:\

A:\dos\7za.exe x Y:\WIN98\Windows.7z -oX:

set comspec=X:\WINDOWS\command.com

BTW the "copy start.bat X:\" is senseless, as I see it, as there is NO such file anywhere that I can find. :unsure:

Config.sys:
device=A:\DOS\XCDROM.SYS /D:oemCD001

DEVICE=A:\DOS\HIMEMX.EXE /testmem:off

DEVICE=A:\DOS\ifshlp.sys

DEVICE=A:\DOS\dblbuff.sys

Get SHSUCDHD:
http://adoxa.110mb.c...ucdx/index.html
you want the 2.1 version:

SHSUCDHD 2.1 (10k, includes MASM source). If you want to use an image within Win9X, you'll need this version (or use SHSUDVHD).

http://adoxa.110mb.com/shsucdx/dl.php?f=shsuch21.zip

Copy the shsucdhd.exe inside the \Dos\ directory inside the BOOT.IMA.

Change the AUTOEXEC.BAT as follows:
A:\DOS\xmsdsk 96000 X: /t /y /c2

A:\DOS\DOSlfn

A:\DOS\shsucdhd /F:C:\Win98LCD.iso /V

A:\DOS\shsucdx /D:SHSU-CDH /L:Y

copy start.bat X:\

A:\dos\7za.exe x Y:\WIN98\Windows.7z -oX:

set comspec=X:\WINDOWS\command.com

Remove the unneeded loading of XCDROM.SYS from config.sys

DEVICE=A:\DOS\HIMEMX.EXE /testmem:off

DEVICE=A:\DOS\ifshlp.sys

DEVICE=A:\DOS\dblbuff.sys

Rebuild the .iso, rename it to Win98LCD.iso (probably not necessary, but I do like 8.3 names :cheers: (or try changing the name of the image in the above modified Autoexec.bat).

Start with the usual (I am presuming that you have the Win98LCD.ISO on (hd0,0) grub4dos command lines:
map (hd0,0)/Win98LCD.ISO (0xff)

map --hook

root (0xff)

chainloader

boot

In any case this release is IMNSHO "botched" as it is using an almost senseless approach (using an el-torito no-emulation .iso image to load a floppy image :w00t:, to later needing SHSUCDX to re-access the .iso/CD :rofl: ).
Previous versions were much more "linear", you had a no-emulation .iso that loaded a super-floppy image.

If You want I can put up a download for the earlier version I have that uses this "rightful" approach. :worship:

:cheers:
Wonko

#77 Krum

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:26 PM

I used the builder here running in xp to build the 98 live cd; it tries to boot on my modern dual core dell, but says: no drives assigned, could not load scshudx.

Then tries to use X drive, now 'not ready'. Tried the disk on an older machine got error that no ps2 mouse attached; that machine only has usb mouse! fatal!.

Tried another older machine, got: "some devices 32 bit, not compat...blahblah; Fatal! Can this be dealt with by editing the iso, like with iso master, since I don't

know how to modify winbuilder process to make it(the iso) work; btw, the newer machine has sata drives. Krum.

#78 Krum

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 04:05 PM

Wonko,
I see you are editing inside the IMA file; I need to do the same to load from sata drive. Yet, I cannot find an IMA/IMG viewer/editor,
(preferably freeware. I tried magiciso and was able to extract files/folders, but could not import them back into the IMA file. So,what are you using to edit the IMA? Krum.

#79 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 07:47 PM

Wonko,
I see you are editing inside the IMA file; I need to do the same to load from sata drive. Yet, I cannot find an IMA/IMG viewer/editor,
(preferably freeware. I tried magiciso and was able to extract files/folders, but could not import them back into the IMA file. So,what are you using to edit the IMA? Krum.

It depends.
I often use Winimage (which is NOT free, but rather Shareware), but there are several ways/tools to manipulate images.

You can normally browse contents of a .ima with 7-zip.
Or you can use the Ken Kato's VFD or IMDISK (or a few similar virtual disk drivers) to actually mount the image and use it like it was a "real" drive.
Or you can use a VM and mount the IMA with grub4dos and access it form DOS, there are several possibilities.
When the original thingy by BeatZero was started, we had this same kind of issues, and the suggestion was for Extract (by Gilles Vollant, same Author of Winimage) as a handty tool (though command line only):
http://www.msfn.org/...project-update/
http://www.msfn.org/...te/page__st__79
but then the request was "without mounting".

Which OS are you running?
There is also this Japanese thingy here Disk Explorer (GUI):
http://hp.vector.co....sk/index_e.html

And possibly some more here:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=11096

I need more info to be able to suggest you the more suitable tool.

:cheers:
Wonko

#80 Krum

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 04:27 AM

Wonko,
Thanx for the reply. In fact, I since tried winimage, and could remove the "dos" folder in the boot.ima; however, I could not inject the reworked dos folder into the ima.
Sure, you can edit files that are in the ima, but I had to change actual files in the dos folder and attempting to inject the folder back into the ima would send the contents
of the folder, without the folder itself. Moreover, I could not open the dos folder when it was in the ima to try to inject the files into the dos folder while resident in the ima.
And they want money for that thing!.
I do vaguely remember messing with vfd, and had forgotten it; I suppose I could copy the necessary files into the ima and save it. But there is another problem:
the iso master on my linux refuses to add ima or img files into the iso, saying the initial signature does not conform to iso 9660.
Yet that same img works perfectly with feinmans createcd133 to make an emulation-bootable cd;perhaps the 133 actually cleans something up in the img, which by the
way, I made using feinmans fread, which comes in the zip,which is freeware. fread makes an img from a bootable floppy.
I tried putting the img and then the same file renamed as ima; no dice either way per the above.

The files I want to put into the ima are xgcdrom, etc which are sata versions of xcdrom, etc. I had included these files on a startup floppy and they do load the sata cd;
the img of this floppy is the one I use to make emulation mode cd's. Sadly, executing the bat in this file after booting does not work; it has to be during boot.

So, the only thing stopping the completion of the loading of the 98 live cd is the lack of a cd driver once in dos mode after initial booting.
The computer in question is a dell dimension 521, with amd64 dual core cpu with sata hard disk and sata cdrom.
I will track down the vfd and try that, but I still don't see how to get the modified ima into the iso. come to think, can files be copied into ima via 7-zip?
again, tnx wonko; if you think of a better trick, let me know. By the way would an img work the same as the ima?-----Krum

#81 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:38 AM

Well, you seem like having "mixed-mode" info.
You can INJECT a folder in Winimage allright If course you need to use "Inject a folder" provision.
Rest assured it normally works allright.

.ima or .img are ONLY file extensions, you can use .xyz allright, what is meaningful is the contents of the image, .ima or .img are simple "conventions", I mean, if you have them have .txt they will open in notepad :ph34r:.

You seem like being (wrongly) obsessed with editing .ima or .iso.

Of course .ima/.img being an image of a read/write filesystem are easily editable, whilst .iso being an image of a READ ONLY filesystem are a bit more complex.
Normally, you edit .ima through *any* of the suggested apps and you re-create the .iso (INSTEAD of editing it).

In the "special case" of replacing a file with the SAME name and SAME length, also Winimage can do that, or you can use *any* hex editor.

Most of the .iso editing programs tend to be UNreliable when it comes to boot CD's (sometimes - often - they work flawlessly, sometimes they simply produce a "wrong".iso).

What the heck is "feinmans createcd133 "?
This one (old version)?
http://isorecorder.a...om/CreateCD.htm

Why not using mkisofs like all the rest of the world does? :dubbio:

7-zip is read-only when it comes to .ima/.img.

Again, if you post some details, I can guide you through the procedure, please state what you actually want to do, assume that I cannot join the dots, to avoid misunderstandings.

:cheers:
Wonko

#82 Krum

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 04:04 PM

Wonko,
The first thing is, my trial of winimage did *not* have the inject folder option, only inject file. Maybe the trial version is deliberatlely less useful. As for creating
new iso rather than editing, the only isomaker I had been familiar with was the createcd, which uses 'emulation'; I take it mkisofs does not need the 'floppy img'?
But, with the clues you have provided me, I will eventually figure it all out. Again tnx. Krum. :good: :good:

#83 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 04:39 PM

I don't remember such a limitation in Winimage. :unsure:
Which mode are you trying it? (Standard vs. Pro)
Which version are you trying?

NO, the ISO standard is, a "standard".
It allows for THREE kind of bootable .iso "formats":
http://www.911cd.net...pic=20263&st=11

1) El-Torito emulation (floppy image)
2) No-emulation
3) Hard disk emulation


Each and every tool dealing with .iso's must comply with the standard(s), only the standard in some points is not "crystal clear" and has been interpreted differently (and in some cases "wrongly" by the various tools Authors.
But if you want to make a bootable image you need anyway a bootable "base":
1) El-Torito emulation (floppy image) <-- you need a bootable floppy image compliant with the standard geometries allowed
2) No-emulation <-- you need a "no-emulation" CD bootsector or a loader like Isolinux, BCDW or grub4dos grldr capable of behaving like it
3) Hard disk emulation <-- you need a bootable hard disk image

Namely, since the time this project was born, a few interesting findings were made, in this thread:
http://www.msfn.org/...oppy-emulation/

For the creation of a "normal" El-Torito floppy emulation image you can use the instructions (and suggested tools) given here:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=24663

To create a "plain" floppy or superfloppy image, if you run 2X/XP you can also use this spreadsheet:
http://reboot.pro/15454/
http://reboot.pro/15454/page__st__15

The new "final" version will hopefully be available shortly, but that one should work allright for "commom formats".
Info/evolution here:
http://www.msfn.org/...d-their-images/


:cheers:
Wonko

#84 Krum

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:40 AM

Wonko,
As for the winimage, I was using the standard-trial version. But I took your advice and used 7zip. First I put the live cd in and killed the autoplay(in XP);
then opened the live cd as data, and copied the files to a folder with the name "Win98LiveCD". Then moved the BOOT.ima file out and used 7zip to extract
the dos folder from the boot.ima., as well as autoexec and config.sys; edited the latter two, and deleted xcdrom, replacing it with xgcdrom, which will only load
sata, no pata. Also put mscdex in place of shsudex. Then took a startup floppy, deleted all the files and inserted the aforementioned files and folder.
Used Feinmans 'fdread' to make an img of the floppy and named it BOOT.img(the ima would also have worked). Then used Feinmans cdrecord to make
a bootable image with the win98cd folder and the img.
Now there's good new and bad news; the cd I burned booted and loaded the sata cdrom, and extracted the files, then got "windows is checking for any
plug and play devices..."; after half a minute the computer hung up and would not respond to c-a-d, or escape or control c or z. During one try, I jiggled the
mouse and got "you have some child devices with 32 bit drivers, not compatable, etc" Then tried booting it with usb mouse and keyboard unplugged, but got
same result. Ican't see any way around this twist. But tnx anyway, Krum. :dubbio:

#85 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:46 PM

As for the winimage, I was using the standard-trial version.

Just for the record/FYI, there is only one version of Winimage but this has two "modes" (corresponding to two different licenses).
It has a setting to use the Pro or the Standard.

It is very possible that the project is missing some vital drivers for your specific hardware.
You should first test it in Qemu (to check that the project is working) and only later try it on real hardware.

:cheers:
Wonko




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