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IBM PC-DOS 7.x on USB Key


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#26 steve6375

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 08:10 PM

Hi
I posted what I know works. If you just change the text from io.sys to ibmio.sys it should work as I know it works for MS-DOS.

#27 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 08:40 PM

Hi
I posted what I know works. If you just change the text from io.sys to ibmio.sys it should work as I know it works for MS-DOS.


No, it doesn't. ;)

Please read again the linked to thread:
http://www.boot-land...;showtopic=8102
and particularly the post by tinybit there:
http://www.boot-land...?...c=8102&st=9

Unless something has changed LATELY, IBMBIO.SYS is NOT supported.

It's just like chemistry:
http://www.windows.u..._reactions.html
the fact that exposing iron to rain makes a chemical reaction that creates (red/brown) rust doesn't mean that copper does the same (and it will produce green oxidation ;)), same as the difference between booting and NOT boting...

;)
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#28 steve6375

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 08:53 AM

OK - but the idea of remapping devices using grub should still work?

You can chainload from a device or PBR rather than a file.

PC-DOS will boot as 64MB C: drive from UFD, if the problem is that it won't boot on BIOSes that see the device as a floppy, then you could remap the device as a hard disk with grub (i.e. the opposite of the menu.lst I posted before).

@Donando

Is the objective to make a 64MB UFD that boots to IBM PC-DOS as a 64mb volume on any system, or to make a 64MB UFD that boots to IBM PC-DOS as A: as a 64MB volume?

The former should be possible using grub remapping, the latter probably involves serious hacking of the PC-DOS...

#29 dream79

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 08:35 PM

Hi Guys,

I'm trying exactly the same as the initial poster.
But my problem is slightly different.
I have a confidential tool here that creates an 32mb PC Dos usb stick that boots as A:
It is based close enough on PC DOS that i can just replace the boot files and the stick boots just fine on random PC's, but.

And here is the biggy, this tool is from Lenovo, it does something to the USB stick that it hides it self from ThinkPad BIOS, is will not be showen as device in the boot list.
But it circumvents the BIOS boot order and boots anyway on any Given ThinkPad.

My problem now is, that I need my Stick to boot IBM POS Systems.
Now it seems that on the IBM POS the stick also hides it self from the BIOS. The result is that the POS can't boot from it.

As I sayd, any random PC can boot from the stick.

Any ideas on that?

I can not provide the tool but I could provide a cleaned image that just boots PC DOS

#30 steve6375

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 09:10 PM

Hi Guys,

I'm trying exactly the same as the initial poster.
But my problem is slightly different.
I have a confidential tool here that creates an 32mb PC Dos usb stick that boots as A:
It is based close enough on PC DOS that i can just replace the boot files and the stick boots just fine on random PC's, but.

And here is the biggy, this tool is from Lenovo, it does something to the USB stick that it hides it self from ThinkPad BIOS, is will not be showen as device in the boot list.
But it circumvents the BIOS boot order and boots anyway on any Given ThinkPad.

My problem now is, that I need my Stick to boot IBM POS Systems.
Now it seems that on the IBM POS the stick also hides it self from the BIOS. The result is that the POS can't boot from it.

As I sayd, any random PC can boot from the stick.

Any ideas on that?

I can not provide the tool but I could provide a cleaned image that just boots PC DOS

Can you attach first 64 sectors (starting from LBA0) of each type of stick?
A listing will be OK. You can use HxD. Or if you find it easier run RMPrepUSB USBInfo and get first LBA0 sector, then look at what the first sector of each partition is (e.g. sector 63 - the listing will tell you), then run USBInfo again and enter in the sector number for the start of the first partition to get a listing of that.

#31 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 09:53 PM

Yes, yes, yes, do post the first few sectors, I think it could be something related to (intentionally) malformed bootsectors, something like the MS recovery console "cmdcons" trick:
http://reboot.pro/2362/page__st__4
or the "trusted version" settings:
http://homepages.tes...name-field.html

This is interesting. :smiling9:

:blink:
Wonko

#32 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 08:39 AM

Hi,

I created a HxD copy of the physical and the logical medium.
As example I prepared the stick to boot drive fitnes test.
PC DOS Boot

I could also upload an ARDI image.

#33 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 08:54 AM

I was hoping that it would work with a simple solution :loleverybody:
In the official package the tool layes in the same folder as the files that end up later on the USB stick.
So I just tried to put the drive fitnes test files and the tool in one folder but the tool expects certain files to be also there

Posted Image


EDIT:

The Tool just needs an ini file

[SystemFileDir]
SystemFileDir=.\
[CopyItem]
CopyItem=CONFIG.SYS
CopyItem=AUTOEXEC.BAT


but also with only those files plus the system files which it copyes automaticaly it still has the sideeffect of beeing hidden for Lenovo / IBM systems.

Edited by dream79, 06 March 2011 - 09:08 AM.


#34 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 10:15 AM

Tried a little more.
The hiding secret seems to be somewhere in byte 00hex to 35hex.
The working stick has

ë<.LENOVO y.. ...ð.€ÿð.. .............). ..LENOVOBIOS


So I took those bytes from a PC DOS boot diskette

ë<.)I9CQIHC......à.@.ð................)Ï.$.IBM DFT


This resulted in the stick not being hidden, but also not booting...

Edit:
now I'm confused.
Byte 3-10 OEM name/version
So, the "y" on byte 0A should be the last letter of the oem name, but this y seems to be the secret.
Once I overwrite it the Stick is not hidden, but also doesn't boot.
If I chnage it back to y, it is hidden again and boots

Edited by dream79, 06 March 2011 - 10:57 AM.


#35 steve6375

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 10:22 AM

try just bytes 0x03 to 0x0A. If it does not work also change byte 0x15

#36 steve6375

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 10:29 AM

Presumably you have tried formatting a USB stick as a standard MSDOS FAT16 bootable stick and then just copying the files over but renaming IBMBIO.SYS to IO.SYS????

#37 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 03:21 PM

The physicaldrive and the logical drive are the "same", i.e. it's a "super-floppy" directly dded on a 4 Gb stick.

The "peculiar" things as I see it are (besides the "OEM name" i.e. "LENOVO y" - where the "y" is hex 79):
  • the geometry: H/S 4/32
  • media type: F0, aka "Floppy disk"
  • Label: "LENOVOBIOS[SPACE]"

There are NO differences that I can see in the actual CODE when compared with a "normal" IBM PC 7.0 bootsector.
You cannot take "random bytes" from a PC DOS boot diskette, and DEFINITELY NOT from the one you posted.

This snippet:
ë<.)I9CQIHC......à.@.ð................)Ï.$.IBM DFT
the ")I9CQIHC", makes little sense :thumbsup:, compare with the XP made DOS boot floppy with the "queer" "*-v4VIHC":
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=16745

A "normal" PC DOS 7.0 floppy has "IBM 7.0" as OEM field.

Please find attached "your" bootsector amended as a "real" PC DOS 7.0 floppy.

What I did was to take one of the bootsectors donando uploaded and correct the geometry, media type, etc, as per your one.

I also replicated your volume serial and provided two with a different serial (actually the one from donando's)

Try applying them and report

To make it clear, the ONLY bytes that you can play with are:
  • from offset 0x03 to offset 0x0A included (OEM field)
  • from offset 0x27 to offset 0x2A included (Volume Serial)
  • from offset 0x2B to offset 0x35 included (Volume Label)

I suspect that this hex 0x79 (or the combination of "LENOVO" with "0x79" or the combinaion of "LENOVO" with "0x79" AND with "LENOVOBIOS" represents a sort of "backdoor" on Lenovo Bios only. :)

Report what happens with the various bootsectors....

:thumbdown:
Wonko

Attached Files



#38 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 05:13 PM

Hi,

thank you for the fast reply.

On the thinkpad, both files with y work, but the stick remains hidden from the BIOS.
All with out the y won't boot on it.

So the y seems to be responsable for it being hidden.

If the stick is not hidden, it is listed as USB HDD.

On my Asus all versions are listed as removable and will boot just fine.
I tryed the stick in it's original format already with Fujitsu Celsius machines and it worked.

Maybe removing the y does already the trick on my point of sale machines.

Edit,
just tried what happens if I take a PC DOS diskett and add the y, nothing, no effect.

Edited by dream79, 06 March 2011 - 05:47 PM.


#39 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 05:34 PM

It is possible that the BIOS "by default" does not allow a "super-floppy" device and that the "y" makes it accept it (and hide it).

So:
  • the "LENOVO[SPACE]" vs. "IBM[SPACE][SPACE]7." is NOT the triggering mechaninsm.
as well:
  • the specific "Volume serial" it is NOT.
  • the speciifc "Volume Label" it is NOT.

It definitely is the "0" vs. 0x79

This really resembles the cited:
http://homepage.ntlw...name-field.html

I would try also the attached (with "IBM[SPACE][SPACE]2.0"). :)

Next test would be to create a partitioned device and see what happens.
Apart from this peculiar filesystem, do your PC's Devices boot from "normal" super-floppy formatted sticks? :thumbsup:

:thumbdown:
Wonko

Attached Files



#40 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 06:29 PM

Hi,

the IBM 2.0 did not work either.

I prepared one stick now with rmprep MS Dos bootable FAT16 boot as FDD
It worked half way, it did boot, but can't find the command.com.

ë<.MSDOS5.0..@.......ø.. .€.....à¯;...).Cy¯NO NAME    FAT16   3ÀŽØŽÐ¼.|‹ìüûˆV$ŠF.÷f..F..Ö.F..V.jT..»:.¾.~‹N..èë..¿..ƒï róV.tð8|.r!`w. ..$.:thumbsup:.u.¹..ó¦auãÿq 9\.uÚ..ë×^âÎ_‹å‰.àRPÄ\.†ù.WŠ^..Eþ÷ã.Fü.Vþ.ÿtyè‘.KàúãOQ‹ÇŠÄ%ð.;Æt.‹ð.hà..™.F..Ò.F..V.¹..èg.âû.¹ÿ.#ù‹Ç.ø.ø€~:6u..øŠéÑ.~s.Áï.#ù;ùYu—_.ŠV$Šn..v.3Û&.?MZt.[X..ËZ´.Í.;æu/¾È}¬„Àtü´.³.Í.ëófÿwxU..h..Ë`...RP..j.j.‹ôŠV$RRR´.Í.Ä\.r¿ƒá?‰N..¶Æ@‰F.÷á—‹D.‹T.t.;×s.÷÷’öñ±.†êÓê†áA.ʆð.Àt.´B..ÆF..@ŠV$Í.r¼.d.ƒD. .a@s.BÃError!..WINBOOT SYS.p...MSDOS   SYS.:.Å}IO      SYS.p.Uª

EB 3C 90 4D 53 44 4F 53 35 2E 30 00 02 40 01 00 02 00 02 00 00 F8 00 01 20 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 E0 AF 3B 00 00 00 29 1A 43 79 AF 4E 4F 20 4E 41 4D 45 20 20 20 20 46 41 54 31 36 20 20 20 33 C0 8E D8 8E D0 BC 00 7C 8B EC FC FB 88 56 24 8A 46 10 F7 66 16 03 46 0E 12 D6 03 46 1C 13 56 1E 6A 54 07 1E BB 3A 05 BE 00 7E 8B 4E 11 06 E8 EB 00 07 BF 00 02 83 EF 20 72 F3 56 8D 74 F0 38 7C 0F 72 21 60 77 0A A0 17 04 24 0F 3A 44 0E 75 05 B9 0B 00 F3 A6 61 75 E3 FF 71 20 39 5C 0C 75 DA 8F 07 EB D7 5E E2 CE 5F 8B E5 89 7F E0 52 50 C4 5C 0A 86 F9 06 57 8A 5E 0D 8D 45 FE F7 E3 03 46 FC 13 56 FE 0B FF 74 79 E8 91 00 4B E0 FA E3 4F 51 8B C7 8A C4 25 F0 00 3B C6 74 1C 8B F0 06 68 E0 07 07 99 03 46 0E 13 D2 03 46 1C 13 56 1E B9 10 00 E8 67 00 E2 FB 07 B9 FF 0F 23 F9 8B C7 03 F8 03 F8 80 7E 3A 36 75 04 03 F8 8A E9 D1 EF 8B BD 00 7E 73 03 C1 EF 04 23 F9 3B F9 59 75 97 5F 07 8A 56 24 8A 6E 15 8D 76 0B 33 DB 26 81 3F 4D 5A 74 1E 5B 58 06 16 CB 5A B4 00 CD 13 3B E6 75 2F BE C8 7D AC 84 C0 74 FC B4 0E B3 07 CD 10 EB F3 66 FF 77 78 55 16 06 68 00 02 CB 60 06 16 16 52 50 06 16 6A 01 6A 10 8B F4 8A 56 24 52 52 52 B4 08 CD 13 C4 5C 04 72 BF 83 E1 3F 89 4E 18 0F B6 C6 40 89 46 1A F7 E1 97 8B 44 08 8B 54 0A 74 1A 3B D7 73 16 F7 F7 92 F6 F1 B1 02 86 EA D3 EA 86 E1 41 0A CA 86 F0 0A C0 74 08 B4 42 16 07 C6 46 02 0E 40 8A 56 24 CD 13 72 BC 8D 64 10 83 44 10 20 07 61 40 73 01 42 C3 45 72 72 6F 72 21 00 00 57 49 4E 42 4F 4F 54 20 53 59 53 04 70 00 00 06 4D 53 44 4F 53 20 20 20 53 59 53 04 3A 05 C5 7D 49 4F 20 20 20 20 20 20 53 59 53 04 70 00 55 AA

Edited by dream79, 06 March 2011 - 06:31 PM.


#41 steve6375

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 06:33 PM

try Boot as HDD in RMPrepUSB as FAT16 floppy is non-standard anyway. Also try as ZIP

#42 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 06:51 PM

As said, it is possible that that particular hardware does NOT like a "superfloppy" UNLESS you have the "79".
In any case the bootsector you posted has an ADDITIONAL "handicap", it uses "F8" (hard disk) for media, instead of "F0" (as the original PC DOS one did), and ADDITIONALLY, it uses FAT 16 (and NOT FAT12) and consequently uses "Big sectors" instead of "Small sectors".

Try the attached sectors (I just set the media to F0):
  • FAT16bs.dat <- this is the one you just posted
  • FAT16bsF0.dat <- this has media set to floppy
  • FAT16bsF0_0x79.dat <- this has media set to floppy AND 0x79
but I doubt that it will work.

Find attached also a bootsector for your original image, BUT "converted" to use MS DOS 7.x/8.x files, just dd it to the stick then add manually IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS and COMMAND.COM

Attached Files



#43 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:02 PM

So,

created again a MS DOS superfloppy with rmprep.
If I just left it as prepared, it did boot, but could not find the command.com, so it gave only the promt to enter the location of the command.com

When I changed 0x0A to our beloved 79 it did boot fine from the MS DOS superfloppy :S

How can I attach a file? I will send you the tool for the PC DOS Stick.
As we discovered the "79" thing, ther eis nothing further special about it.
I removed all the confidential parts.

#44 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:08 PM

If I just left it as prepared, it did boot, but could not find the command.com, so it gave only the promt to enter the location of the command.com

Have you tried that with "F0"?


How can I attach a file? I will send you the tool for the PC DOS Stick.

You cannot (not enough posts).
Upload it somewhere as you did initially, I will download it and attach it to a next post.

:thumbsup:
Wonko

#45 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:13 PM

PC DOS 2 USB

#46 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:19 PM

But I guess, now it looks more like that our POS devices just can't boot from a super floppy and the y has no effect whatsoever.

That is some kick back :thumbsup:

#47 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:33 PM

But I guess, now it looks more like that our POS devices just can't boot from a super floppy and the y has no effect whatsoever.

That is some kick back :thumbsup:

Next test would be to create a partitioned device and see what happens.


:stretcher:

:whistling:
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#48 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:44 PM

I will prepare a partitioned device but I don't know when I will be able to test it as I will have to do it in a super market and I don't know if it will do the deed.

The problem that I try to solve with this stick is, that we still have loads of different diskettes for our point of sale systems.
Often we waste loads of time in trying to create diskettes, just to find out that the physical diskette is broken once again.
Unfortunately dust in the 5 to 10 yars old floppy drives and the product security deactivators are poison to diskettes.

So as we got this tool a while ago I came up with the idea to put all those diskettes on the stick and just apply a multi config menu on it.
I was very confident that it will work after the initial test on my asus board.

So it has to be with PC DOS, as MS DOS is copy righted and we work for IBM.

It is realy a pity that no one yet created a USB Stick that identifies it self as a real USB Diskette drive

Edited by dream79, 06 March 2011 - 07:45 PM.


#49 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:56 PM

So it has to be with PC DOS, as MS DOS is copy righted and we work for IBM.

What about FREEDos? :thumbsup:

It is realy a pity that no one yet created a USB Stick that identifies it self as a real USB Diskette drive

You joking right? :whistling:

Read here:
http://reboot.pro/8944/page__st__13
http://reboot.pro/8944/page__st__20
AND given links. :stretcher:

:juggler:
Wonko

#50 dream79

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 08:05 PM

I will have a look at the posts that you have linked.

In case you did already download the tool from hotfile.
Please don't post it.

I have ammended the file that it will not set the 79 anymore.
as I don't want to spread a tool that might be used as a backdoor.

The new tool can be found here
PC DOS 7

if you would post this one please.




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