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NT 6.x fast installer: install win7 directly to usb external drive


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#551 nice_guy75

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:14 AM

Yep, you are always going a couple steps ahead, nothing bad of course, and as a matter of fact within limits it is a good thing, you are curious and you want to explore things, but in this case I believe you'd better take baby steps.

Allow me to doubt that the bootmgr (the one on the USB hard disk) is on (hd0,0).


Assuming that you have the grldr working, you need to take these steps, booting WITHOUT the USB hard disk connected
1) at the grub4dos prompt type:
root (
[TAB] <- this means press the TAB key
grub4dos should attempt to autocomplete the line suggesting something like:
hd0 rd cd
2) jolt down these (they are the devices grub4dos can see/access)

Now shutdown, connect the USB hard disk and boot again.
1) at the grub4dos prompt type:
root (
[TAB] <- this means press the TAB key
grub4dos should attempt to autocomplete the line suggesting something like:
hd0 rd cd
2) jolt down these (they should be the same as the ones listed before
3) issue the command
usb --init
[ENTER]
4) type:
root (
[TAB]
5) any difference (like an added hd1) on the list of devices?
6) IF there is an added hd1 (or hd2, etc.), then issue a:
geometry (hd1)
[ENTER]
7) what do you see? Please report.
8) now (provided that all the above worked as expected) identify the partition/volume to which you installed the windows 7 and root to it, i.e. something like:
root (hd1,0)
[ENTER]
(in the example (hd1,0) means first partition on second disk)
9) issue a
ls
[ENTER]
10) can you see the BOOTMGR listed (you will see it as bootmgr, in small letters)
11) again if you can see that, issue a
chainloader /bootmgr
[ENTER]
11) grub4dos should give some feedback, report it, something like "will boot xxxx from drive=xxxx, partiyion xxxx (hidden sectors xxxxx)"
12) if you see that, issue a
boot
[ENTER]

what happens?

:duff:
Wonko


Ok, I think we have came to the dead end:
When I click [TAB] after typing "root (" without connecting my 3TB HDD, it gave me "hd0 rd" result. Then I restarted my PC after connecting my 3TB HDD went to grub> prompt and then typed "root (" and press [TAB], it gave me same result, which is "hd0 rd".
When I ran usb --init command suprisingly I got, "Error 27: Unrecongnized command" does this mean that grub is unable to access my usb 3TB HDD, if this is so, I think we can't do anything, if you know some workaround than it is different otherwise. I won't be able to boot into my 3TB HDD.

Interstingly when I disconnect my 3TB HDD and connected my USB drive on which windows 7 is already installed and working fine even in bootable mode, it promptly gave me its geometry of Second HDD. And tried booting as well, via grub, it booted perfectly. I think the connecting cable or the housing itself is not allowing grub to access my HDD. But I failed to understand why it is not recognizing usb --init command? When I connected my working bootable pen drive of Windows 7 "usb --init" command is giving me this reply "Error 27: Unrecognized command".


Edited by nice_guy75, 12 June 2018 - 10:50 AM.


#552 nice_guy75

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:55 AM

I tried something more, I made a grub bootable USB drive using REPrepUSB application and tried to boot my PC into that pen drive, when I ran "usb--init" it scanned and recognized my primary Hard drive as hd1 but didn't recognized my 3TB HDD which was connected to the PC in another USB port.



#553 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:26 PM

When I ran usb --init command suprisingly I got, "Error 27: Unrecongnized command" does this mean that grub is unable to access my usb 3TB HDD, if this is so, I think we can't do anything, if you know some workaround than it is different otherwise. I won't be able to boot into my 3TB HDD.

Hmmmm. :dubbio:

 

"Unrecognized command" should mean that you typed not EXACTLY "usb --init", i.e. you had a typo.

 

The command should run (and in case produce a different error) even with NO USB devices connected.

 

If you prefer, instead of "usb --init" you can try at grub prompt to run "nice_guy75", you should get the same Error 27, BUT, which EXACT version of grub4dos are you running?

 

Here I cannot reproduce, the "error 27" should belong to an old version of grub4dos, check (when you boot from the internal disk, NOT by doing yet another experiment) which EXACT version of grub4dos you are loading, you should be reading "GRUB4DOS 0.4.6a 2017-12-23".

 

Or you can copy the grldr from the stick you created with RMPRPUSB the grldr to the internal disk, usually RMPREPUSB (if you got a recent version) has the latest-latest version.

 

Genrally speaking, having multiple USB devices connected is a NO-NO, as it will easily confuse the program.

 

Also, you should try connecting the USB hard disk (AND NOT any other mass storage device concurrently) on different ports (it is a hit and miss game, sometimes the "front" ports are "bad" but the ones in the rear work).

 

:duff:

Wonko 


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#554 nice_guy75

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:04 PM

you can copy the grldr from the stick you created with RMPRPUSB the grldr to the internal disk, usually, RMPREPUSB (if you got a recent version) has the latest-latest version.

Generally speaking, having multiple USB devices connected is a NO-NO, as it will easily confuse the program.

Also, you should try connecting the USB hard disk (AND NOT any other mass storage device concurrently) on different ports (it is a hit and miss game, sometimes the "front" ports are "bad" but the ones in the rear work).

:duff:
Wonko

I did exactly what you told, some 2 hrs back before leaving the office, but couldn't post here in a hurry, I changed the grldr, I placed grldr of my pen drive in my C drive of PC. In my first attempt, it didn't find any usb device and in my second attempt it went on searching for 4-5 mins, I press ESC key as well but nothing happening so I push power button of my PC and then restarted. In my first attempt I got this message, "Error 82: No USB device found. USB device is not ready." LED of my HDD was blinking all the time but grub couldn't find my 3TB USB HDD.


Edited by nice_guy75, 12 June 2018 - 02:43 PM.


#555 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:09 PM

Yep, you need more tests, on the various port and experimenting with the delay parameter:

 

 

******************************************************************************
*** About usb2.0 driver ***
******************************************************************************
GRLDR includes usb2.0 drive.

The USB 2.0 driver supports: PCI Device Class 0c/03/20,
namely EHCI (Enhanced Host Controller Interface) devices.

The USB 2.0 driver supports: USB (Universal Serial Bus) Class 08 (Mass Storage devices),
SubClass 06, Protocol 50, that is USB Thumbdrive or Portable External Hard Drives.

Support USB-FDD, USB-HDD, USB-cdrom mode.

In the menu or the command line to load usb2.0 driver: usb --init
Optional parameters: usb --delay=P
P is controlled transmission delay index. 0=General; 1=2*General; 2=4*General; 3=8*General

Tips: 1. Some USB drives are identified as USB 1.x devices under Windows or DOS usbaspi.sys ,
However, the device will re-identified as usb2.0 delay after the increase.
2. Some USB drives do not be detected when plugging into front panel,
However, the increase will be identified after delay.
3. When loading failure, Select --delay=P parameter try.

 

It is entirely possible that it won't work anyway, but it is worth the effort to try all possibilities.

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#556 nice_guy75

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:45 AM

Finally, there is some hope floating again. Suprisingly, when I ran usb --init command today, it did recognize my 3TB HDD, but unfortunately I am unable to mount the partition by root (hd1,0) command, it is giving "Error 17: Cannot mount selected partition" reply. Then I tried to geometry (hd1), I got following result:

drive 0x81(BIF): C/H/S=45600/255/63, Sector Count/Size=732564000/512

Partition num: 0, active, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x07

Partition num: 1, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x07

Partition num: 2, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x07

 

I think Grub is only showing logical partition it is unable to access extended partitions. My HDD has as many as 7 partition, but it is showing logical partitions only.

 

I tried to mount all three partition one by one but giving the same reply "Error 17: Cannot mount selected partition"



#557 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:15 AM

No, we need to be exact in naming things.

There are two kinds of partitions:

1) Primary

2) Extended A Primary "contains" (actually it is exactly the same) a logical volume

 

An Extended can contain one (or more) logical volumes.

In the MBR the addresses of Primary partitions are "direct" and correspond to the extents of the volumes inside them, while the Extended partition entry in the MBR points to a further structure, the EMBR or extended MBR that actually has the address to the first volume inside the extended partition and a pointer to a further EMBR, that has a the address to the second volume,. etc.

In other words, the Extended partition has addresses of logical volumes inside it represented as a multi-sector chain of addresses.

 

Right now grub4dos can see the addresses (they are "wrong", and you will later see why) ONLY for the Primary partitions, and cannot see the "chain" of the Extended and voluems inside it.

 

What is happening most probably is that grub4dos at the moment "sees" the disk as being 512 bytes sectored, so , since the addresses are represented in sectors, it is looking in the "wrong" place. Now the attempt will be to "correct geometry". 

 

:duff:

Wonko



#558 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:27 AM

For some strange reason the board software "ate" part of may previous post, which is good BTW as the last suggestion was wrong.

 

Wait until I post some instructions on next steps to try.

 

:duff:

Wonko



#559 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:07 PM

It seems like there were not much progresses with the 4K issues, or I am missing them.

 

For the moment, try using this particular version (you need to again replace the grldr on the internal disk with this "special" version):

https://github.com/c...b4dos/issues/47

http://bbs.wuyou.net...DB8NDIzMjYyfA==

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#560 nice_guy75

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 02:08 AM

It seems like there were not much progresses with the 4K issues, or I am missing them.

 

For the moment, try using this particular version (you need to again replace the grldr on the internal disk with this "special" version):

http://bbs.wuyou.net...DB8NDIzMjYyfA==

 

:duff:

Wonko

I tried using this version of grldr but when I ran "usb --init" command after replacing grldr, it gave me some codes in new window, something like these:

0003 0300 0002 2049 4350 0000 0000 0003 00EF 0000 0000 FE0F 7C00 0100 0001.................. and so on.

 

And then I had to use ctrl+alt+del to reboot my PC, ESC key was also not working,

 

If I format my 3TB HDD in XP with 512 bytes/sector, will it solve my problem, or then also I might face this problem? If it would solve my problem for sure then only I would format my HDD, otherwise it would be a cumbersome task to delete all the data and then paste all those data to 3TB HDD again from my new laptop.



#561 nice_guy75

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 02:14 AM

No, we need to be exact in naming things.

There are two kinds of partitions:

1) Primary

2) Extended A Primary "contains" (actually it is exactly the same) a logical volume

 

An Extended can contain one (or more) logical volumes.

In the MBR the addresses of Primary partitions are "direct" and correspond to the extents of the volumes inside them, while the Extended partition entry in the MBR points to a further structure, the EMBR or extended MBR that actually has the address to the first volume inside the extended partition and a pointer to a further EMBR, that has a the address to the second volume,. etc.

In other words, the Extended partition has addresses of logical volumes inside it represented as a multi-sector chain of addresses.

 

Right now grub4dos can see the addresses (they are "wrong", and you will later see why) ONLY for the Primary partitions, and cannot see the "chain" of the Extended and voluems inside it.

 

What is happening most probably is that grub4dos at the moment "sees" the disk as being 512 bytes sectored, so , since the addresses are represented in sectors, it is looking in the "wrong" place. Now the attempt will be to "correct geometry". 

 

:duff:

Wonko

Yeah, I got confused in Primary Partition, logical Drive and Extended partition. It was only showing Primary partition and not showing Extended Partitions of logical drive. ( I think this time I have used the correct terms, :) )



#562 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:20 PM

nice_guy75, on 15 Jun 2018 - 04:14 AM, said:
Yeah, I got confused in Primary Partition, logical Drive and Extended partition. It was only showing Primary partition and not showing Extended Partitions of logical drive. ( I think this time I have used the correct terms, :) )

Almost.
A Primary is also a logical drive (which is the *whatever* windows normally assigns a drive letter to).
An Extended can contain one or more logical drives.
 

nice_guy75, on 15 Jun 2018 - 04:08 AM, said:
I tried using this version of grldr but when I ran "usb --init" command after replacing grldr, it gave me some codes in new window, something like these:
0003 0300 0002 2049 4350 0000 0000 0003 00EF 0000 0000 FE0F 7C00 0100 0001.................. and so on.

And then I had to use ctrl+alt+del to reboot my PC, ESC key was also not working,

If I format my 3TB HDD in XP with 512 bytes/sector, will it solve my problem, or then also I might face this problem? If it would solve my problem for sure then only I would format my HDD, otherwise it would be a cumbersome task to delete all the data and then paste all those data to 3TB HDD again from my new laptop.

Ok , I thought it had some better/more options, but seemingly the "better" one is still the 2017-12-23 or the one that you have that came from RMPREPUSB (I am not seeing, but I may well be wrong) any related changes in latest-latest version:
http://grub4dos.chen....6a-2018-06-12/

It is quickly getting outside my experience and possibility to reproduce, unfortunately I cannot seem to find a way to reproduce your situation and thus make directly some experiments.

The issue is NOT about the formatting, it is about the geometry (sector size) the USB disk (or the USB enclosure/bridge) "transmits" or "translates" (or fails to translate).

Your next attempt would be to try using the SUPERGRUB2 disk.
Get the ISO here:
https://sourceforge....a5.iso/download

Copy it "as is" in the root of your internal hard disk, rename it to "sgrub2.iso" then try booting to it (from grub4dos) with:
map /sgrub2.iso (0xFF)
map --hook
chainloader (0xFF)
boot

Once in the grub2 superdisk, you want to try the menu entry "Print devices and partitions".
Let's see what it can see.
If the USB disk is not seen (it shouldn't at first run) try the menu entry "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" and then run again the "Print devices and partitions".

:duff:
Wonko


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#563 nice_guy75

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 10:29 AM

Ok , I thought it had some better/more options, but seemingly the "better" one is still the 2017-12-23 or the one that you have that came from RMPREPUSB (I am not seeing, but I may well be wrong) any related changes in latest-latest version:
http://grub4dos.chen....6a-2018-06-12/

It is quickly getting outside my experience and possibility to reproduce, unfortunately I cannot seem to find a way to reproduce your situation and thus make directly some experiments.

The issue is NOT about the formatting, it is about the geometry (sector size) the USB disk (or the USB enclosure/bridge) "transmits" or "translates" (or fails to translate).

Your next attempt would be to try using the SUPERGRUB2 disk.
Get the ISO here:
https://sourceforge....a5.iso/download

Copy it "as is" in the root of your internal hard disk, rename it to "sgrub2.iso" then try booting to it (from grub4dos) with:
map /sgrub2.iso (0xFF)
map --hook
chainloader (0xFF)
boot

Once in the grub2 superdisk, you want to try the menu entry "Print devices and partitions".
Let's see what it can see.
If the USB disk is not seen (it shouldn't at first run) try the menu entry "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" and then run again the "Print devices and partitions".

:duff:
Wonko

Ok I have followed you, When I selected "Print devices and partitions" it gave me details of my internal HDD as well as USB hard disk, it gave following details:

"Partition hd1 msdos1: Filesystem type ntfs, UUID B2EC689DEC685E1B. Partition start at 1024KiB - Total size 20850048KiB"

 

Then I selected "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" and then again selected "Print Devices and partitions" it gave following reply:

"Partition usb0 msdos1: Filesystem type ntfs-label 'Win 7 OTG' UUID 1696CBAF96CB8DA5 - Partition start at 252KiB - Total size 15743444KiB"

 

Apart from this it also gave me details of all the partitions of my 3TB External USB disk.

 

When I press esc key it took me to grub 2.02 prompt there I typed root ( and hit tab command it gave me this reply "Possible device are: ata4 usb0" but when I tried to run root (hd1,0) nothing happened.

 

Now tell me if I can boot into my "Win 7 OTG" partition? The installation is still unfished, :-(.


Edited by nice_guy75, 18 June 2018 - 10:30 AM.


#564 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 12:31 PM

Did it say anything about 4 Kb sector size?

 

However it is a very promising development :).

 

The environment you are now in is not (anymore) grub4dos, but rather GRUB2 (grub4dos is an evolution of GRUB, now senselessly renamed as "GRUB legacy" by the GRUB developers who largely changed syntax when developing GRUB2, now senselessly renamed as GRUB).

 

Several things have changed, particularly in some commands and device identifier, your USB disk is seen by GRUB2 as "usb0".

 

So the commands you have to try now are (should be):

 

set root='(usb0,msdos1)'
chainloader +1

 

Please note how the above is only valid AFTER you have gone through the menu "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental".

 

But the SUPERGRUB2 disk should have "guided" booting, i.e.:

1) "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental".

2) "Boot manually"

3) "Disks and partitions (Chainload)"

3) You should get the (usb0,msdos1) listed, try selecting it and hit ENTER

 

What happens?

Most probably you will have an error, but (hopefully) it will be an error from the BOOTMGR (i.e. the Windows boot loader[1]).

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

 

 

[1] It is also possible that you will need to use a BOOTMGR from a Windows 8/8.1, cannot remember if the Windows 7 BOOTMGR is compatible with 4 kb disks :unsure:



#565 nice_guy75

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 07:19 AM

It seems nothing is going my way. When I ran this command

set root='(usb0,msdos1)'

I got this reply

Disk 'hd127' not found

whereas when I selected "Print Devices and partitions" my external disk was showing as mentioned earlier. I tried selecting  "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" but there also I got the same reply of "disk 'hd127' not found." I think this is a dead end for me. 



#566 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 02:34 PM

It's strange.

WITHOUT using the "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" the USB disk was seen BUT with the wrong geometry.

 

AFTER using the "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" the USB disk was seen with the "right" sector size (to the point that you could see the label of the first partition and details of the other ones).

 

Try again (fresh boot) EXACTLY:

 

 

 

But the SUPERGRUB2 disk should have "guided" booting, i.e.:

1) "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental".

2) "Boot manually"

3) "Disks and partitions (Chainload)"

3) You should get the (usb0,msdos1) listed, try selecting it and hit ENTER

 

What happens?

 

and report.

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#567 AnonVendetta

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 03:46 PM

I've used this a few times, and still fail to understand why it's called "NT 6.x fast installer", for it seems no faster than dism, imagex, or Windows' "regular" installer.....



#568 nice_guy75

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 08:20 AM

It's strange.

WITHOUT using the "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" the USB disk was seen BUT with the wrong geometry.

 

AFTER using the "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" the USB disk was seen with the "right" sector size (to the point that you could see the label of the first partition and details of the other ones).

 

Try again (fresh boot) EXACTLY:

 

 

 

and report.

 

:duff:

Wonko

 

I ran these commands and boot into the grub2.iso

map /sgrub2.iso (0xFF)

map –hook

chainloader (0xFF)

boot

 

There I see following options

Languages..

Detect and show boot methods

Enable GRUB2’s RAID and LMV support

Enable all native disk drivers *Experimental*

Boot manually

Extra GRUB2 Functionality

Print devices / partitions

Color ON/OFF

Exit

 

But I didn’t see “Disks and Partitions (Chainload)” anywhere, am I using the wrong ISO?


Edited by nice_guy75, 23 June 2018 - 08:21 AM.


#569 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 11:26 AM

I ran these commands and boot into the grub2.iso

map /sgrub2.iso (0xFF)

map –hook

chainloader (0xFF)

boot

 

There I see following options

Languages..

Detect and show boot methods

Enable GRUB2’s RAID and LMV support

Enable all native disk drivers *Experimental*

Boot manually

Extra GRUB2 Functionality

Print devices / partitions

Color ON/OFF

Exit

 

But I didn’t see “Disks and Partitions (Chainload)” anywhere, am I using the wrong ISO?

You need to :

 

 

But the SUPERGRUB2 disk should have "guided" booting, i.e.:

1) "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental".

2) "Boot manually"

3) "Disks and partitions (Chainload)"

3) You should get the (usb0,msdos1) listed, try selecting it and hit ENTER

 

FIRST you "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental"

THEN you choose "Boot manually"

THEN (after "Boot manually" has been chosen) you should see "Disks and partitions (Chainload)" and you will be able to select it

THEN (after "Disks and partitions (Chainload)" has run ) you should (maybe) see an entry (usb0,msdos1) listed

 

If you prefer, when you run "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" some detection of disks via internal driver stack is performed and then you get back to the "main" menu, from it (the main menu) you choose "Boot Manually" and you will enter in a submenu with several choices, among them one will be "Disks and partitions (Chainload)" which, after having been run will generate "on-the-fly" a sub-submenu containing possible chainloadable entries that the GRUB2 detected.

 

The idea is - since with the "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" the USB 4k disk contents are seen correctly - to try chainloading the bootsector of the partition where the OTG 7 is installed.

No idea if the bootsector code will actually be able to load the BOOTMGR, hence the need to test it and see what happens.

 

:duff:

Wonko


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#570 nice_guy75

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 04:46 AM

You need to :

 

 

 

FIRST you "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental"

THEN you choose "Boot manually"

THEN (after "Boot manually" has been chosen) you should see "Disks and partitions (Chainload)" and you will be able to select it

THEN (after "Disks and partitions (Chainload)" has run ) you should (maybe) see an entry (usb0,msdos1) listed

 

If you prefer, when you run "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" some detection of disks via internal driver stack is performed and then you get back to the "main" menu, from it (the main menu) you choose "Boot Manually" and you will enter in a submenu with several choices, among them one will be "Disks and partitions (Chainload)" which, after having been run will generate "on-the-fly" a sub-submenu containing possible chainloadable entries that the GRUB2 detected.

 

The idea is - since with the "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" the USB 4k disk contents are seen correctly - to try chainloading the bootsector of the partition where the OTG 7 is installed.

No idea if the bootsector code will actually be able to load the BOOTMGR, hence the need to test it and see what happens.

 

:duff:

Wonko

I did not see any options in "Boot Manually", the only option in Boot Manually is "Boot Manually" itself.

 

There are times when it gives me error even when I select "Enable all disk drivers - Experimental", which reads something like this, "Disk hd127 not found."



#571 Wonko the Sane

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:35 AM

Try again, more explicit instructions:

 

1) SELECT "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental", and press ENTER

2) once you are back to the main menu
3) SELECT "Boot manually", and press ENTER
4) you will find yourself in a sub-menu, among the items there should be "Disks and partitions (Chainload)"
5) SELECT "Disks and partitions (Chainload)" , and press ENTER

6) you will find yourself in a sub-menu, among the items there should be "(usb0,msdos1)" listed

7) SELECT the "(usb0,msdos1)",  and press ENTER

 

Of course the above only makes sense if in step 1) the USB disk is found and mapped as "(usb0,msdos1)" as you reported earlier, sometimes a USB port (on the back) is "better" than another one (on the front of the case), sometimes it is only a matter of timing, you need some more time with the system booted before starting the "Enable all native disk drivers - experimental" (there is a reason why it is marked as "experimental" ;))

 

I am attaching a small .gif, so that you can see what you should do (in my case I have no devices found with native drivers, hence no (usb0,msdos1) and I choose (ata0,msdos1) instead.

 

:duff:

Wonko

Attached Thumbnails

  • testrecord.gif





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