24 replies to this topic

[wilma05]

great tutorial so far, but this only works if the target drive already has a ntldr and a boot.ini-file, because the OS is already installed on it for example.

What if I want to create a HDD that just contains the BartPE? What kind of ntldr and boot.ini am I supposed to use?! I tried to copy those of my internal system disk, but after peinst went on fine, I get an MBR Error upon boot...

I appreciate any helpful hints...

great!

EDIT by jaclaz:
TOPIC split from:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=4866

[was_jaclaz]

great tutorial so far, but this only works if the target drive already has a ntldr and a boot.ini-file, because the OS is already installed on it for example.

What if I want to create a HDD that just contains the BartPE? What kind of ntldr and boot.ini am I supposed to use?! I tried to copy those of my internal system disk, but after peinst went on fine, I get an MBR Error upon boot...

I appreciate any helpful hints...

Well, there is no such thing as "a" MBR error.
You should state the exact error you get.
What you need is actually simple:
Partition/Format the HD from XP
Copy to it:
NTLDR
BOOT.INI
(the BOOT.INI needs to have at least two entries) this:
http://diddy.boot-la...all_windows.htm
will do.

Try booting from the HD, if you get to the BOOT.INI choices, it's OK.
If you have an error, post describing exactly HOW you partitioned/formatted the device and the exact error you are getting.

I presume you have a working .iso of BartPE, don't you?

If yes, simply (assuming you have the .iso mounted as D:\ and the device you want to put BartPE to as E:\):

• copy from D:\I386\SETUPLDR.BIN to the ROOT of E:\
• copy from D:\I386\NTDETCT.COM to the ROOT of E:\
• copy the whole contents of the D:\ to E:\
• rename E:\I386\ to E:\minint
• delete E:\NTLDR
• delete E:\BOOT.INI
• rename E:\SETUPLDR.BIN to E:\NTLDR
• try booting from the device

INSTEAD of step #4, it is advised that you modify SETUPLDR.BIN, as some (actually old and deprecated) BartPE plugins use the \I386\ path hardcoded:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=17504

INSTEAD of steps #5, #6 and #7 you may want to add grldr and menu.lst from the grub4dos package:
http://nufans.net/grub4dos/
http://nufans.net/gr...-2009-10-16.zip

So that you have multi-boot capabilities.
Guide is here:
http://diddy.boot-la...os/Grub4dos.htm

However a suitable entry to add in menu.lst is:

title find and load SETUPLDR.BIN of 1.x PE's

find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /setupldr.bin

chainloader /setupldr.bin

If you want to keep a "single boot", INSTEAD of step #7 you may want to use my batch and change the name of the loader in the bootsector:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=2362
this way there won't be confusion later with the SETUPLDR.BIN renamed to NTLDR.



jaclaz

[wilma05]

hold on a second - why isnt a boot.ini, that looks like:

[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=c:\peboot.bin
[operating systems]
c:\peboot.bin="Bart"

doing the trick?

plus: I'm a noob. Could you please base your guide upon Shirins tutorial? Yours reads like starting from scratch...

[was_jaclaz]

hold on a second - why isnt a boot.ini, that looks like:

[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=c:\peboot.bin
[operating systems]
c:\peboot.bin="Bart"

doing the trick?

Because (Wild guess since you fail to report the exact error you get and steps you took) the peboot.bin (which is a copy of the bootsector of the hard disk, but with NTLDR name edited to PELDR) somehow was not created properly:

echo PEINST: Installing PE Bootsector (peboot.bin)
%_base%mkbt.exe -x -c %_target% %_target%\peboot.bin
if errorlevel 1 goto _abort
echo PEINST: Updating peboot.bin
%_base%nt2peldr.exe %_target%\peboot.bin
if errorlevel 1 goto _abort
echo PEINST: Updating boot.ini
echo PEINST: Setting timeout to 30 seconds
rem bootcfg.exe /Timeout 30
rem if errorlevel 1 goto _abort
echo PEINST: Adding BartPE entry to %_target%\boot.ini
findstr /I /B /L /V "%_target%\peboot.bin" %_target%\boot.ini > %_target%\boot$.ini
echo %_target%\peboot.bin="Boot BartPE (by PE Builder)" >> %_target%\boot$.ini
attrib -r -h -s %_target%\boot.ini
if errorlevel 1 goto _abort
del /q /f %_target%\boot.ini
if errorlevel 1 goto _abort
ren %_target%\boot$.ini boot.ini
if errorlevel 1 goto _abort
attrib +r +h +s %_target%\boot.ini
echo PEINST: Installing PE Loader (peldr)
copy %_source%\i386\setupldr.bin %_target%\peldr
if errorlevel 1 goto _abort
echo PEINST: PE-Loader installed...
pause
goto _main

Or you are using a peboot.bin copied form another drive....
Or you are missing a PELDR file....
Or .....

plus: I'm a noob. Could you please base your guide upon Shirins tutorial? Yours reads like starting from scratch...

Yep, that was EXACTLY the idea.
I summed up the few steps that PEINST.CMD (that is the object of the tutorial) does automagically.
Since it didn't work, and you did not gave us details on the problem, I suggested by-passing it and try doing things manually.

jaclaz

[wilma05]

ok, here's what I did (again):

1) formatted a 60GB OCZ SSD and assigned D:\
2) copied ntldr and boot.ini from my running WinXP (on C:\) to D:\, so that peinst wont return errors
3) went through Shirins tutorial (result: http://tinyurl.com/yecph49)
4) replaced D:\boot.ini with a self-created boot.ini, containing:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=c:\peboot.bin
[operating systems]
c:\peboot.bin="Boot BartPE (by PE Builder)"

5) reboot - here's what I receive:
http://tinyurl.com/ycenuhh

of course, I've selected the proper boot device, not the CD/DVD drive - awkward...

[was_jaclaz]

1) formatted a 60GB OCZ SSD and assigned D:\
2) copied ntldr and boot.ini from my running WinXP (on C:\) to D:\, so that peinst wont return errors
2 bis) try booting at this point (BOOT.INI should have two entries, or a longish timeout so that it will pause)
3) went through Shirins tutorial (result: http://tinyurl.com/yecph49)
4) replaced D:\boot.ini with a self-created boot.ini, containing:

How is the OCZ SSD seen by windows "Fixed" or "Removable"?

Did you use Windows XP Disk management to Partition it?
Or you just re-formatted it?
Does it has a MBR?

BTW, you shoud rotate clockwise your monitor 90 degrees:
http://tinyurl.com/yecph49)




jaclaz

[wilma05]

try booting at this point (BOOT.INI should have two entries, or a longish timeout so that it will pause)

same result - wants to boot from CD/DVD for some reasons...

How is the OCZ SSD seen by windows "Fixed" or "Removable"?

how do I find out? its connected directly to an onboard SATA port

Did you use Windows XP Disk management to Partition it?

first I formatted it with the format-option in peinst - then with XP disk mgmt. No change.

Does it has a MBR?

isnt it wiped by formating? I dont know whats in the MBR

now the boot.ini contains:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
D:\peboot.bin="Boot BartPE (by PE Builder)"

I guess I should change D:\ into C:\ before reboot?

[was_jaclaz]

same result - wants to boot from CD/DVD for some reasons...

OK, we found the problem.

Your SSD is NOT bootable, since PEINST.CMD "copies" settings from it, if they are wrong, it won't boot as well.

first I formatted it with the format-option in peinst - then with XP disk mgmt. No change.

So, if for any reason, the SSD came formatted as super-floppy you did NOT touch it's structure, by partitioning it, and it remains an unpartitoned drive.
A HD-like device needs to have a MBR and to be partitioned.
Go into disk management and delete the volume.
Then try creating a new Partition.
Format it from within disk management.
Try again copying NTLDR+BOOT.INI and try booting.

how do I find out? its connected directly to an onboard SATA port

Open a command prompt.
DISKPART [ENTER]
LIST DISK [ENTER] <-post output
LIST VOLUME [ENTER] <-post output
EXIT [ENTER]
Example:

C:\>diskpart



Microsoft DiskPart versione 5.1.3565



Copyright (C) 1999-2003 Microsoft Corporation.

Dal computer CINQUE



DISKPART> list disk



  Disco n.  Stato	   Dim.	 Libera   Din  Gpt

  --------  ----------  -------  -------  ---  ---

  Disco 0	Pronto	   298 GB	  0 B

  Disco 1	Pronto	   298 GB	  0 B



DISKPART> list volume



  Volume n.  Lett. Etichetta	Fs	 Tipo		Dim.	 Stato	  Info

  ----------  ---  -----------  -----  ----------  -------  ---------  --------

  Volume 0	 P   Nuovo		CDFS   DVD-ROM	  185 MB

  Volume 1	 E					   CD-ROM		  0 B

  Volume 2	 C				NTFS   Partizione   298 GB  Integro	Sistema

  Volume 3	 D				NTFS   Partizione   298 GB  Integro

  Volume 4	 F					   Rimovibile	  0 B

  Volume 5	 G					   Rimovibile	  0 B

  Volume 6	 H					   Rimovibile	  0 B

  Volume 7	 I					   Rimovibile	  0 B



DISKPART> exit



Chiusura di DiskPart in corso...

jaclaz

[wilma05]

this gets stranger by the minute

I'm so sick of this "MBR"-thing, its a complete mystery to me. How am I supposed to have a look at it, wipe it or rebuild it? Preferably under Windows?

So I tried something different now - I took another disk, went through the whole procedure again, boot.ini now looks like:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
C:\peboot.bin="Boot BartPE (by PE Builder)"

This time I'm still not able to boot, but I get a different error

http://tinyurl.com/yaau67z (sorry for 180°)

"MBR Error 1" and after Enter "MBR Error 2"

so what do I know now?

- the 60 GB SSD seems to be messed up completly
- the replacement drive delivers "MBR Error"

Disk part infos as follows:

DISKPART> LIST DISK



  Datentr.  Status	  Größe	Frei	 Dyn  GPT

  --------  ----------  -------  -------  ---  ---

	   0	Online		60 GB	  0 B

	   1	Online	   119 GB	  0 B

	   4	Online		15 GB	  0 B



DISKPART> list volume



  Volume	  Bst  Bezeichnung  DS	 Typ		 Größe	Status	 Info

  ----------  ---  -----------  -----  ----------  -------  ---------  --------

  Volume 0	 G					   DVD			 0 B

  Volume 1	 F					   DVD			 0 B

  Volume 2	 I					   DVD			 0 B

  Volume 3	 C   C main	   NTFS   Partition	 60 GB  OK		 System

  Volume 4	 E   acronis	  NTFS   Partition	119 GB  OK

  Volume 5	 D   Volume	   NTFS   Partition	 15 GB  OK

D should be the BartPE-drive...

Go into disk management and delete the volume.
Then try creating a new Partition.
Format it from within disk management.
Try again copying NTLDR+BOOT.INI and try booting.

you must be kidding, I did that several times - the 60GB SSD remained unbootable. Is a new MBR written by that procedure?!

when I connect the 60 GB SSD again, its also shown under diskpart. This isnt saying anything about boot-ability as it seems.

[was_jaclaz]

you must be kidding, I did that several times - the 60GB SSD remained unbootable. Is a new MBR written by that procedure?!

It should, but in some cases "remnants" of a previous format/partitioning may remain.

What do you want to fix?

The SSD or the disk?

In any case the best approach is to start "clean".

Wipe first few sectors, then re-boot.
And try again with XP Disk Management.

Here is how to wipe first few sectors:
http://www.boot-land...topic=3453&st=8

Be VERY accurate when giving the number of physical drive.
In your previous report it looks like it is 4, though where are #2 and #3?

Just in case, use this batch ddlistw:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8219
http://www.boot-land...?...c=8219&st=2
to make sure.

If it still doesn't boot, use dsfo as follows:
dsfo \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE2 0 51200 J:\first100sectors.dat
Again be careful on which drive you specify.

Then compress first100sectors.dat into a .zip archive and post it here as an attachment.


jaclaz

[wilma05]

but why is the error returned by disk2 different than the one returned by the ssd? both drives were encrypted once but got wiped meantime (Acronis DriveCleanser). So remains should have been cleared a long time ago...

besides, I changed the drive letter in the boot.ini from D:\peboot.bin to C:\peboot.bin after disabling write protection for the boot.ini - thats correct I guess?

[was_jaclaz]

but why is the error returned by disk2 different than the one returned by the ssd? both drives were encrypted once but got wiped meantime (Acronis DriveCleanser). So remains should have been cleared a long time ago...

.... in some cases "remnants" of a previous format/partitioning may remain.

And this is another peace of info you completely failed to provide.
If you have Acronis apps installed, they can play "strange" tricks.

besides, I changed the drive letter in the boot.ini from D:\peboot.bin to C:\peboot.bin after disabling write protection for the boot.ini - thats correct I guess?

Sure, but it has nothing to do with the problem you are having.

jaclaz

[wilma05]

yes, I know, just wanted to make sure.

I just want a tool in order to "see" the MBR mess, wipe this bloody thing and rebuild basic boot structures.

So I guess Acronis isnt the first choice when wiping is needed?

another post scriptum: diskpart only "sees" 3 disks. 5 are attached, but two of them are encrypted. So its not displaying Truecrypt volumes? Why is it?

As am able to boot into another BartPE: isnt there an app which wipes the first few sectors reliably?

[was_jaclaz]

As am able to boot into another BartPE: isnt there an app which wipes the first few sectors reliably?

I just gave you one. (and it does work reliably)

Most other "wipe" tools will wipe the whole device (which takes a looooong time and is perfectly unneeded).

You can use MBRFIX:
http://www.sysint.no...ting/mbrfix.htm

MbrFix /drive <num> clean

MbrFix /drive <num> fixmbr

Will clean the partition tables and write new 2K/XP MBR code
Or MBRWIZ:
http://mbrwizard.com/
http://mbrwizard.com/examples.php#wipe
Wipe the entire first head on Disk n: MBRWiz /Wipe=HEAD /Disk=n
Wipe Sectors 64 through 100 on Disk n: MBRWiz /Wipe=64-100 /Disk=n

If you want something more "visual" use a disk editor.
Tiny Hexer has a Script for doing exactly that:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8734

jaclaz

[wilma05]

MbrFix /drive <num> clean

are you sure it kills the whole damn thing? Not only the partition table?

Most other "wipe" tools will wipe the whole device (which takes a looooong time and is perfectly unneeded).

Acronis DriveCleanser seems to do something different anyhow...

[was_jaclaz]

are you sure it kills the whole damn thing? Not only the partition table?

Is my english that bad?

I just gave you one. (and it does work reliably)

dsfi WILL wipe.

You can use MBRFIX:
http://www.sysint.no...ting/mbrfix.htm

MbrFix /drive <num> clean

MbrFix /drive <num> fixmbr

Will clean the partition tables and write new 2K/XP MBR code

Can you see anywhere in the above that it "kills the whole damn thing"?
MBRFIX will NOT wipe "the whole damn thing"

Or MBRWIZ:
http://mbrwizard.com/
http://mbrwizard.com/examples.php#wipe
Wipe the entire first head on Disk n: MBRWiz /Wipe=HEAD /Disk=n
Wipe Sectors 64 through 100 on Disk n: MBRWiz /Wipe=64-100 /Disk=n

MBRWIZ WILL wipe.

As well Tiny Hexer WILL.

Acronis DriveCleanser seems to do something different anyhow...

Whatever.

I gave you at the moment ...let me count .... 1, 2, 3, 4 different ways to solve your problem, ALL of them working reliably: I guess they are enough.

Maybe it's time you read the "common sense advice" attached to Rules :
http://www.boot-land...act=boardrules#

This thread is becoming longish, I will split it in a new thread in:
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=71


Please acknowledge about this split in your next post.

jaclaz

[wilma05]

I'll update you after I've slayed this §@ç#ing MBR on both drives.

peinst-procedure I've taken seem to be fine with you otherwise, so I will do exactly the same thing after murdering MBR

[wilma05]

whats the use of ntldr after peldr got created? Is it possible to delete it afterwards? As no regular OS is installed?

[was_jaclaz]

whats the use of ntldr after peldr got created? Is it possible to delete it afterwards? As no regular OS is installed?

The "normal" boot sequence is:
MBR->Bootsector invoking NTLDR->NTLDR->BOOT.INI with choice for PEBOOT.BIN->PEBOOT.BIN->PELDR

If you re-read this:
http://www.boot-land...?...=10034&st=1

You have two ways:
MBR->Bootsector invoking NTLDR->PELDR renamed as NTLDR
MBR->Bootsector invoking PELDR->PELDR

The latter is advised, in order to have not "misnamed" files around.

And can be achieved by:

• using the linked to batch
  or
• copying the PEBOOT.BIN to the partition bootsector
  or
• hexediting manually with a disk editor the string NTLDR in the bootsector to PELDR

jaclaz

[wilma05]

dont get me wrong, all is working fine now. But I wonder about a few things:

- how does a regular Windows boot work? What kind of information does "multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS" in boot.ini provide? What is bootfont.bin, cmldr, ntldr,IO.SYS, NTDETECT.COM at root and so on

- Why does peinst need ntldr in root dir in order to install BartPE to hard? As it has Windows files from CD anyhow...

-

The "normal" boot sequence is:
MBR->Bootsector invoking NTLDR->NRLDR->BOOT.INI

whats nrldr?

- why is peldr 257 KB whereas ntldr is only 246 KB?

- what happens if I would delete ntldr now? stuck at boot? because ntldr is needed to "chainload" peldr later on?

[was_jaclaz]

dont get me wrong, all is working fine now.

Good.

But I wonder about a few things:

- how does a regular Windows boot work? What kind of information does "multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS" in boot.ini provide? What is bootfont.bin, cmldr, ntldr,IO.SYS, NTDETECT.COM at root and so on

- Why does peinst need ntldr in root dir in order to install BartPE to hard? As it has Windows files from CD anyhow...

-

Well, this is not a crash course on the answer to "everything you wanted to know about booting a NT based systema and never dared to ask".
There is google, something like "multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS" is called "arcpath".

whats nrldr?

Sorry typo. I meant NTLDR, corrected.


Why different versions of NTLDR have different sizes?
Why different versions of SETUPLDR.BIN have different sizes?
The above two questions are all (more or less ) acceptable, but

- why is peldr 257 KB whereas ntldr is only 246 KB?

Sounds a lot like "why elephants can't fly?"
http://www.boot-land...?...=2425&st=18

NTLDR and SETUPLDR.BIN are two DIFFERENT loaders that load different things.

- what happens if I would delete ntldr now? stuck at boot? because ntldr is needed to "chainload" peldr later on?

Yep, you would "break a link" in the chain I explained to you.

jaclaz

[wilma05]

ok -one question left: is it possible to integrate further programs/plugins into BartPE AFTER install to hard?

[was_jaclaz]

ok -one question left: is it possible to integrate further programs/plugins into BartPE AFTER install to hard?

Sure it is possible .

Though cannot really say if it is "advisable".

Basically the whole "complication" of plugins is the need to do everything before writing it (forever) on a .iso.

A PE on a Write/Read support, like a USB stick gives more freedom, though it is still not as-easy-as-a-normal-install-on-real-XP.

Booting the kernel with the /minint switch (which is what PE's do) creates a Registry in memory, which is of course "volatile", but noone prevents you to backup it after a program has been added, and to replace the "original" one with the moddified copy offline. (as an example booted from another PE or from a "full" OS), same applies to other files that the program may add in ramdisk.

Cannot say if there is any example around of this approach.

In other words, you replace a "known, documented" complication with another possibly less complex, but far less documented one.

Of course all "portable apps" will work allright.



jaclaz

[wilma05]

hm, ok

NTLDR and SETUPLDR.BIN are two DIFFERENT loaders that load different things.

...and you dont wanna tell me what exactly this stuff is loading? How is ntldr "called" in first place?!

[was_jaclaz]

...and you dont wanna tell me what exactly this stuff is loading? How is ntldr "called" in first place?!

Well, NTLDR loads either NT, 2K, XP or 2003.
SETUPLDR.BIN loads either the SETUP for 2K, XP or 2003 or a PE environment based on XP or 2003.
It isn't that difficult, if you think a bit about it.

I hope you don't want to "mix" things, we already had members with this approach:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8744
and we already gave all the answers we were able to give.

And I already told you what normally calls the NTLDR in the first place: the bootsector or PBR.

The board is full of info related exactly to your (unsolved) questions.
Take some time searching it and browsing it, you will find many answers.

One thread out of many that you may find interesting:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=3765

Another one on 911CD (another place where you will be able to find many answers):
http://www.911cd.net...o...=16980&st=8


jaclaz