486 replies to this topic

[Wonko the Sane]

The problem comes in when I install a program and make changes using the program that, after I restart I get the error which has been described by many people trying to boot from an image.

Pardon me but I don't understand WHAT causes the problem NOR WHICH problem is it (in this thread LOTS of errors has been reported, WHICH one)

The usual approach is to try replicating a "SAME" thing.

Like try creating with hddimage and VSS a smaller image, the same size of one of those that you tested successfuly with Wimb's tool, and see what difference you find.

Just for the record:

If you use VSS you don't *really* need hddimage.
You can create an empty image (and as long as it is of a cylinder boundary compatible size, it will be allright for the intended use, you can build it from scratch with only fsz and VSS).
Example:
You want an image around 100 Mb
102,400,000/512=200,000 Sectors
200,000/63=3,174.6031.... Heads, round in excess to 3,175
3,175/255=12.4509...Cylinders, round in excess to 13
13x255x63x512=106,928,640 this is the size of the image in bytes

Or if you prefer, the number that you pass to fsz.exe needs to be a multiple of 8,225,280 (255x63x512).

• Now run:
  

  fsz mytest.img 106928640

  that will create the image (filled with 00's)
• Mount it with VSS.
• Go to Disk Management, as soon as you open it it will prompt you to initialize the disk, then you'll have an initialized but UNpartitioned (and UNformatted) disk in Disk Management.
• Partition it.
• Format the partition.
• Mark the partition as active.

Wonko

[TheRookie]

Hi guys,

I appoligise for not posting the exact error I got.

@Doodoo I'm glad your install of xp to the img file is working for you and that you are able to have your own custom sized images.


@Wonko the wizzard, Please don't give up on me yet, I'm almost there...
Thanks so much for the info you provided, I managed to create a 10gig .img file using fsz and vss and installed xp to the image file.
I've created the img file as follows:
(Decided to use a 10g file.)
1000024*10000
=10000240000
10000240000/512
=19531718.75
19531718.75/63
=310027.2817460317 Heads, round in excess
=310027
310027/255
=1215.792156862745 Cylinders, round in excess
=1216
1216x255x63x512
=10001940480
fsz x:\xp-1.img 10001940480
vsmount x:\xp-1.img
Initialise disk
create new partition
format it.
make active
vsumount x:\xp-1.img
Install xp to the img file leaving the filesystem intact and not having setup format it.

So, xp install is just complete, andd I then install the drivers and restart.
No problems.
Then I proceed to install the program that gives me hell and then restart.
Wow! it actually restarts and lands me on the desktop!
but then after a next restart I get the following:

stop. 0x0000004e[0x00000099,0x0000e55a,0x00000003,0x00000000]

Am I perhaps doing something wrong?

help please...

[Wonko the Sane]

So, xp install is just complete, andd I then install the drivers and restart.
No problems.
Then I proceed to install the program that gives me hell and then restart.
Wow! it actually restarts and lands me on the desktop!
but then after a next restart I get the following:

stop. 0x0000004e[0x00000099,0x0000e55a,0x00000003,0x00000000]

Try making a few restarts WITHOUT installing "the program that gives me hell".
Name the program (unless it is a trade secret).
As said try with a SMALLER image!
To be accurate, try with one of wimb's sizes (the LARGEST one).
Then create an image WITH THE SAME EXACT size as the above.
Then compare results.

Just for the record, round in excess, means that :

• 19531718.75=19531719
• 310027.2817...=310028

But of course this is not the problem, you simply have a final image that may be slightly smaller than expected.


Wonko

[TheRookie]

Hi JacLaz,

I'm so sorry about not replying to your suggestions of creating images that are sizes to that of mr. Wimb's.

I have tried them before atempting the manual way of creating images, and because they too gave me the same error, I guess I decided it was of no importance and so I replied more to the manual way of creating images.

The program I'm trying to get going is called "jaws for windows" (a screenreader, which provides spoken feedback to what is on screen.)
I will try your suggestion, of restarting a few times without the program being installed.

Sorry for the rounding off errors, I really am no good with math...

Just so you remember, If I use Wimb's tool to create the image of 7gig all works well...

Thanks for putting up with me, I really appreciate it alot. I'm trying... I hope you don't feel like i'm wasting your time.

[Wonko the Sane]

Just so you remember, If I use Wimb's tool to create the image of 7gig all works well...

Then take note of the EXACT size of the 7 Gb image made with wimb's tool.
Create manually an image of the SAME EXACT size.
Test it.
It should work EXACTLY the same, just in case, extract their MBR's:

dsfo 7gbwimb.img 0 512 7gbwimb.mbr

dsfo 7gbmanual.img 0 512 7gbmanual.mbr

and compare them:

fc /b 7gbwimb.mbr 7gbmanual.mbr

The only difference will be (hopefully) the signature, i.e. 4 bytes 1B8~1BB.

Extract their PBR's:

dsfo 7gbwimb.img 32256 512 7gbwimb.pbr

dsfo 7gbmanual.img 32256 512 7gbmanual.pbr

and compare them:

fc /b 7gbwimb.pbr 7gbmanual.pbr

The only difference will be (hopefully) the volume serial, i.e. 8 bytes 48~4F.

If the above works make manually a BIGGER image and test it.
Use some common sense, if you have a 7 Gb image working and a 10 Gb doesn't, try a 8.5 Gb one, if it works, try a 9.25 Gb one, if it doesn't, try a 7.75 Gb one.....


Wonko

[TheRookie]

Hi Wonko,

I've created manually a 7gig image which is exactly the size of Wimb's 7gig image:
fsz e:\xpsp3.img 7509680640
Mounted it, initialised it, created partition, formatted it and set it active.
Installed windows,
restart
install program
restart
and crash!
Note as with previous images I created I would do as follows:
install windows
restart
install program
restart
change settings in program
restart
crash!

Would you please have a look at the mbr's please?

Note: xpsp31.img is the working image of Wimb which is 7gig.
xpsp3.img is the manually created image which is also 7gig.

mbr comparison:
Comparing files E:\xpsp31.mbr and E:\XPSP3.MBR
000001B8: 36 53
000001B9: 8C 2E
000001BA: 36 65
000001BB: 8C 95
000001BF: 01 20
000001C0: 01 21
000001C6: 3F 00
000001C7: 00 08
000001CA: 12 00
000001CB: CE B8

[Wonko the Sane]

Would you please have a look at the mbr's please?

Sure , add the two MBR's (and possibly also the two PBR's into a .zip archive.
Upload to any free filehosting and post a link.

Also knowing which is which (like in 7gbwimb.mbr vs. 7gbmanual.mbr AND NOT like xpsp31.mbr vs. XPSP3.MBR) might help.

But I can already tell you that one of the two is respecting partition boundaries, and one is not.
In other words first one starts at CHS 0/1/1 or LBA 63 (as it is normal for XP) and the second starts at 0/32/33 LBA 2048 (which is typical of an "unpatched" Vista or 7).

So, NO need to upload anything .

Just tell me:

• WHICH one is the one made out of wimb's and WHICH one is the one you made
• WHAT OS are you running (and creating the image in)

(My crystal ball, even if out of tune , is suggesting me that you are running Vista or 7. )

BTW, I thought I had suggested you to NOT install the program and check the image BEFORE installing it and WITHOUT it.

As you may gather from point #f.3 of "common sense advice" there are usually REASONS:
http://reboot.pro/9101/

WHY the heck is EVERY TIME so §@ç#ing difficult to just repeat a given set of instructions WITHOUT ANY change?
No, don't answer, it is a rhetorical question, I know WHY it happens.

Having a non cylinder boundary aligned partition (or a properly aligned one - since I don't know for sure which is which) should normally do NO harm, but you never know with these experimental settings and drivers (or "picky" programs, you realize that this way we don't know where the problem might lie, i.e. if in the driver or in "jaws", don't you? ).


Wonko

[TheRookie]

Hi JacLaz,

My sincerest appoligies, I really didn't mean to cause you to become angry, yes... I never read the rules...

And I shall do so.


Yes, you are correct in that I am running windows 7,
and the xpsp31.img is the one created by Wimb's tool.
xpsp3.img is the one I created manually.

I will proceed to create the exact image of 7gig manually,
install windows,
then do a comparison of both the mbr and pbr,
restart a few times to see if any crashes occur.

again, My sincerest appoligies,

I really feel useless...


Regards,

[hemmes]

Inside XP Setup you should NOT Format and don't create partition,
but just select the Image File (drive C:) and keep settings unchanged.

Did you integrate in your XP source MassStorage drivers with TXT mode enabled ?
That is certainly needed for most modern equipment.
See section 2 of http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=21883
What is the BIOS Setting for SATA drives (try to use IDE mode or compatibility and not AHCI mode)

Use IMG_XP_Create.exe in XP to make NEW Image file and try again.
Does this solve your problem ?

http://reboot.pro/13...post__p__121808

Also use WinContig from IMG_XP package to check if all img and iso files are contiguous (=unfragmented)

What is your host OS where you run IMG_XP_Create.exe ?

Wimb, thanks for your help. Also thanks to 'Davlak' and 'Wonko the Sane' for their helping hand (defrag the image).

Wimb, I followed up your advise and solved the problem ! (For all I used ***IMG_XP package Version 2.2)
After I had integrated (streaming with Nlite) the VMware SCSI Storage driver with TXT mode into the XP Setup installation source, I had access to the disk.
So I could totaly install XP-Pro-sp3-nl in XP-1.img. I ran XP_Create.exe on an VMware (7.01) XP-Pro-sp3 (32-bit) guest-station which is running on Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) host.
When someone needs The VMware drivers (SVGA-II 11.6.0.31 and SCSI 1.2.1.0) click here.

Now I have a new little problem.
The image file is already copied to the USB HDD. When I run 'USB_XP_Fix.exe' the make of Grub4dos on my USB HDD fails with an error, only boot.ini is copied to it:

line 6899 (File 'C:\IMG_XP\USB_XP_Fix.exe').
Error: Variable used without being declared.

How can I solve this ?

[wimb]

line 6899 (File 'C:\IMG_XP\USB_XP_Fix.exe').
Error: Variable used without being declared.

The error was found and is fixed.
Please Redownload IMG_XP_22.exe

[agni]

@wimb

I tried running IMG XP from Windows 7.It asked for dmadmin.exe or to run IMG XP once from XP.
Instead ,if xp install iso is specified you can directly extract dmadmin from the iso.This feature will be useful for Windows 7 users trying to install XP to a Disk image.

[Wonko the Sane]

My sincerest appoligies, I really didn't mean to cause you to become angry, yes... I never read the rules...

And I shall do so.

I am not at all angry, just grumpy.
And cited were NOT Rules, but rather "common sense advice".

Yes, you are correct in that I am running windows 7,
and the xpsp31.img is the one created by Wimb's tool.
xpsp3.img is the one I created manually.

I love my good ol' crystal ball even if it constantly a little but out of tune.

I will proceed to create the exact image of 7gig manually,
install windows,
then do a comparison of both the mbr and pbr,
restart a few times to see if any crashes occur.

It is not necessary to compare them anymore, what happens is now clear, what we have to understand is if the problem (the crash) is due to the driver (hence it will happen all the same even without the program installed) or if it is connected to the actual "jaws" program.

again, My sincerest appoligies,

I really feel useless...

Oww, come on, there is NO prob, read Rule #12 (and follow it!).

Once we have determined what is the cause, try making again the image after having added this little patch to the Registry of your Windows 7:
http://www.911cd.net...pic=21186&st=18

@everyone fiddling with partitions under BOTH XP and Vista :ph34rP or 7, DO READ this thread:
http://reboot.pro/9897/


Wonko

[wimb]

@wimb

I tried running IMG XP from Windows 7.It asked for dmadmin.exe or to run IMG XP once from XP.
Instead ,if xp install iso is specified you can directly extract dmadmin from the iso.This feature will be useful for Windows 7 users trying to install XP to a Disk image.

Thanks for using IMG_XP package.
Yes, I might add other ways to get dmadmin.exe and that can be useful for Windows 7 users.

[Wonko the Sane]

Yes, I might add other ways to get dmadmin.exe and that can be useful for Windows 7 users.

I presume that in 7, since the /mbr switch was added to bootsect.exe, a 2K/XP MBR can be found in it.


Wonko

[wimb]

I presume that in 7, since the /mbr switch was added to bootsect.exe, a 2K/XP MBR can be found in it.

Good idea, I will have a look at it.

[TheRookie]

Hi Mr. JacLaz,

Thanks for giving me the link where I could find the necessary entries to add to the registry.

I did the following:
1. add the settings to the registry.
2. created the image of 7gb using fsz.
3. Mounted it with vsmount, initialised it, formatted it and made active.
I did notice that in disk management I see 6.99gb but ever since I applied the registry entries, I see 6.98 gb.
I guess that how it should be using the good ol' xp way of partitioning...

installed windows without formatting the partition in setup, leaving current filesystem intact.

But I still get the same stop error after I install the program.

I really wonder what could be wrong...
I definitely don't think its JAWS really, but I'm sure you know better...

Thanks so much for your help thus far Mr. Wonko, I really am greatful for your time.

[Wonko the Sane]

But I still get the same stop error after I install the program.

I really wonder what could be wrong...
I definitely don't think its JAWS really, but I'm sure you know better...

Thanks so much for your help thus far Mr. Wonko, I really am greatful for your time.

I really don't understand you.

Now that supposedly the partioning scheme is the same are you not curious to CHECK it?

What if it isn't (for ANY reason)?
You have not advanced one fraction of inch since yesterday.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO INSTALL XP TO THAT IMAGE!
YOU DO NOT WANT TO INSTALL THAT PROGRAM!

You want FIRST to verify if the plan worked AND check that the ONLY differences between the new 7Gb image and the one from wimb are those listed in post #230
http://reboot.pro/13731/page__st__229

I guess that if you report another time that you installed the program and it crashed I will .

DO NOT INSTALL ANYMORE that program until previous steps are verified, please, please, please.


Wonko

[TheRookie]

Hi Wonko,


I'd be lying to you if I said I never thought to post the mbr and pbr results of the different partitioning scheme.
Honestly, I wasn't sure if I must post it but I guess now that I think about it, it would have been common sense to do so.

Previously, I didn't think that I shouldn't have installed anything to the image before comparing the mbr and pbr's but I do know now so I wont report about any crashes.

I have really no clue how to identify the diffrences in the files, thus it would be very kind of you if you could please help me.

below is the link to obtain the files if you are still ok with helping me, but if you give up with me, I totally understand, since I'm new to all this and I guess you have far better things to do.

http://www.nakido.co...R_comparison.7z

Regards,

[Wonko the Sane]

The things are "much worse" than before.
In the sense that before the only differences were (besides the four bytes of the disk signature - which is normal) the starting address of the partition.
Now besides the SAME differences, you also have the partition NOT active (byte 0x1BE=0), a differnt CODE and the actual different address makes very little sense.

Let's start again from scratch.

Go back to using hddimage.

Just run hddimage with the exact size of wimb's image expressed in bytes.

Don't do anything else to the image, just extract it's MBR and post it (the MBR, not the fc result) together with the MBR of wimb's image (again the MBR, not the fc result).

I am posting a hddimage.cmd in the experimental version that adds a random disk signature.
Get it from here:
http://reboot.pro/9033/
http://reboot.pro/9033/page__st__34


Wonko

[TheRookie]

Hi Mr. Wonko,

Thank you for your time.

Just to make sure i'm doing things the right way, I have used your posted version of hddimage 7. if I should go back to using the previous version that I always used, do let me know, and I shall do so.
However, here are the files as requested.

http://www.nakido.co...b_manual_mbr.7z

Regards,

[Wonko the Sane]

Things are getting MUCH better , though we are not yet there.
The code is now the SAME (and "right").
LBA address is now the same (and "right")
The CHS is still different (and "wrong" in the "manual" image MBR), partition ends at 145/255/63 instead of the "right" 923/255/63.

I just tried the 0.7 AlPHA version of hdimage under XP as:

hddimage.cmd test7gb.img 7509680640

and got a MBR EXACTLY identical to the one by you, and had on the screen the confirmation:

C:\hddimage>hddimage test7gb.img 7509680640

Creating an MBR from "C:\hddimage\dmadmin.exe" with dsfo.exe

OK, 512 bytes, 0.000s, MD5 = 61a174a7d3cbe41d9996de0f124b7ebf

Disk Signature is: 91B8726E



Created hard-disk image test7gb.img (Size=7509680640, Sectors=14667345, Cylinder

s=913)

Which means that there is a bug in hddimage.cmd.
Here is output with a few "SET ECyl" added:

C:\hddimage>hddimage test7gb.img 7509680640

ECyl=912

Creating an MBR from "C:\DOWNLO~1\hddimage\dmadmin.exe" with dsfo.exe

OK, 512 bytes, 0.000s, MD5 = 61a174a7d3cbe41d9996de0f124b7ebf

ECyl=912

ECyl=1110010000

ECyl=10010000

ECyl=10010000

ECyl=144

ECyl=90

Premere un tasto per continuare . . .

Disk Signature is: 3BD93831



Created hard-disk image test7gb.img (Size=7509680640, Sectors=14667345, Cylinder

s=913)

Give me some time to find the problem and correct it.


Wonko

[TheRookie]

Hi Mr. Wonko,

sorry for having to put up with me through all of this,
Your patience and instructions was what made me come back and report my findings, and though they were terrible at times due to the amount of common sense, my stupidity etc,
I'm glad that you managed to find the problem, and you may correct it when you se fit to do so.


please... could you answer me this question?:
I was very surprised at how you interpret the various readings, such as whether the partition was active, where it should start and end etc.
Do you perhaps have some readings I could try to understand which might help me as aposed to using automagic software each time something goes wrong with a partition or disk structure, I.e. when there is data on a partition, but it is inaccessible and windows solution is to format it?

I'm glad that you are getting to the bottom of this saga, and happy that it will improve the current problem in the hddimage.cmd

Regards,

[Wonko the Sane]

please... could you answer me this question?:
I was very surprised at how you interpret the various readings, such as whether the partition was active, where it should start and end etc.
Do you perhaps have some readings I could try to understand which might help me as aposed to using automagic software each time something goes wrong with a partition or disk structure, I.e. when there is data on a partition, but it is inaccessible and windows solution is to format it?

Sure, it's not "magic" (or not entirely ).
Get tinyhexer and my Structure viewers for it, here:
http://reboot.pro/8734/

Try opening the same MBR's you posted with the app and choose the MBRview Structure viewer.

I will hopefully soon post a fixed version of the hddimage batch, there is a strange problem with the DECtoBIN, BINtoDEC and DECtoHEX routines.


Wonko

P.S.: NO, verified, the routines are OK, Oriensol OVERSIMPLIFIED the batch , hard coding the end sector to 63 0x3F (with the consequence of losing two bits of "resolution", or, if you prefer, you cannot make properly a CHS value for ECyl with hddimage higher than 0xFF or 255, corresponding to around 2 Gb, i.e. 256x255x63x512=2,105,671,680)
Which means:

• that my MBRBATCH/MKIMG is OK (I am right )
• that I shouldn't trust ANYONE to play with my batches, unless it is documented they really, really know where their towel is (I am wrong )
• a very noticeable amount of peeps have used and perused hddimage WITHOUT EVER verifying it, or at least NOT verifying it for images larger than the mentioned size (MOST other people are ALSO wrong )

P.P.S.: Version 0.8 Alpha (hopefully fixing the issue) posted here:
http://reboot.pro/9033/page__st__36
@TheRookie
Try with this one.
Create an image the SAME size.
Extract the MBR'S.
Compare them with FC, only the disk signature should be different.

[TheRookie]

Hi Mr. Wonko,

Thanks for the tiny hexer and your scripts, I will see what I can try to understand...

Using hddimage alpha 08 my comparison of fc is as follows:

Comparing files E:\7gbwimb.mbr and E:\7GBMANUAL.MBR
000001B8: 18 E2
000001B9: 10 75
000001BA: 18 B6
000001BB: 10 65

Regards,

[hemmes]

Hello,

I have menu.lst (Grub4Dos) in root of my internal HDD-1 on the first active primairy partition (Windows-7).
On internal HDD-1 is also an second primairy partition (Windows XP).
On internal HDD-2 is only one primairy partition (Data).

This part of menu.lst lets XP-2.img run very well on HDD-1 first partition:

title Boot XP Image - XP-2.img - WinVBlock FILEDISK
# Sector-mapped disk
map /XP-2.img (hd0)
# Dummy WinVBlock parameter disk
map --rd-size=2048
map --mem (rd)+4 (0x55)
# Commit mapped drives
map --hook
# Tell WinVBlock the filename to switch from sector-mapped to file-backed
write (0x55) #GRUB4DOS\x00v=1\x00XP-2.img\x00\x80\x00
# Boot the Windows in the image file
root (hd0,0)
chainloader /ntldr

Now I like to make some changes by moving XP-2.img to other places:

Which changes should I make to menu.lst to start XP-2.img on HDD-1 second primairy partition ?

And which changes should I make to menu.lst when I wish to start XP-2.img on HDD-2 with one primairy partition ?

Can someone help ?

Thanks for your possible helps.