PE vs. full Windows on USB
#1
Posted 05 November 2011 - 07:57 PM
I'm looking for some opinions from members with hands on experience.
What reasons are there to choose a full Windows over a PE? What can it do better? When is it actually a bad idea. Does anyone actually run his full Windows from a USB-Stick or runs it everyone exclusivly from USB-HDD?
What is your experience with your portable Windows, did you ran into any gotchas?
- Greg Zeng likes this
#2
Posted 06 November 2011 - 12:54 PM
I suggest you to try fresh installing Win to VHD, or backup your system HD with all familiar apps to it, then copy the VHD to your (bare metal ) thumb and boot it natively or with Grub4Dos. You can add more Base and Differencing VHDs to the Thumb with various OSs. These VHD files are easy to delete & replace with new ones, no need to install anything to the thumb, just prepare VHDs correctly, and the speed is about the same as of native Win install to the Thumb.
- Greg Zeng likes this
#3
Posted 06 November 2011 - 04:10 PM
The difference for me is already a matter of size:
- 50MB - 1000MB for WinPE
- 1000MB - ? for full Windows Install
And How boot a full Windows install on PXE ?
Can we use a full Windows install on every the PC ?
Time boot ?
#4
Posted 06 November 2011 - 04:52 PM
i have a 2k3 based PE ,and a 1.2GB Image of Full XP (with 500+ MB free space), i use the it as MobileOS .
i have updated this image with at least 50 different computers, but yet i dont think it is universal , so i wont use it as recovery purposes.
for recovery purposes , i have 2k3 based PE , which shares same set of tools as my MobileOS, which are very minimal.
so i would recommend , DO NOT prefer full xp on PE .
why ?
1- boot time
2- not universal
3- Memory requirements ( even though i can use my 1.2GB image as Direct Map on 256MB but still it is an issue)
for PE
1- quick boot time
2- universal (provided your pe has SATA drivers)
3-my 2k3 PE boots on 128MB all right , and can use all tools.
- Greg Zeng likes this
#5
Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:02 PM
#6
Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:08 PM
In fact, I never built one as the last time I tried a tool it wasted my local BCD and didn't even worked as intended. What I wanted was a simple tool to extract and install windows onto a .VHD and then let me run it from a virtual box session.
For me, the biggest advantage is running programs without so many PE related limitations.
#7
Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:43 PM
#8
Posted 06 November 2011 - 08:05 PM
If I wanted to just unpack files with imagex, I'd use 7zip instead.
In fact, would be nice to see some tool unpack files with 7zip and then move them onto a bootable .VHD
This would bypass the need for install WIM drivers/ downloading WAIK.
#9
Posted 06 November 2011 - 08:32 PM
#10
Posted 06 November 2011 - 08:56 PM
#11
Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:01 PM
Hey Nuno, one can buy these days USB-Sticks, which are bigger than 2GB!I would like to use a full windows 7 but it is still to big to fit on a 2Gb pendisk.
#12
Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:24 PM
Which tool did you try?
- Arjun Singh likes this
#13
Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:50 PM
You should know by now that I am a cheap-skate. I only use (and waste) pendisks offered after software vendor presentations..Hey Nuno, one can buy these days USB-Sticks, which are bigger than 2GB!
I went with PWboot: http://reboot.pro/6851/Which tool did you try?
For some reason I know have an unbootable laptop, still too lazy to get it fixed again.
Noteworthy pages to keep in mind:
Boot Windows 7 from USB hard disk by karyonix: http://reboot.pro/9196/
Universal HDD Image files for XP and Windows 7: http://reboot.pro/9830/
NT 6.x fast installer: install win7 directly to usb extenal drive: http://reboot.pro/10126/
This is all interesting, only now I seem to find enough time and good reasons to try out a full Windows and I'm looking at the available options.
#14
Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:02 PM
I've used steve6375's method (now re-done 47th Tutorial) to install Win 2008 R2 Server from an ISO to a USB HD, and it should also work for installing Win7 to a VHD, after you boot from Win 7 Setup ISO and create & attach the VHD. But won't do any-good in 2Gb space.
Alternatively, I'd just use GimageX to Apply the install.wim from a mounted Win7 Setup ISO to the attached VHD, and then add its boot entry to the Thumb's BCD Store (which you need to copy to the Thumb as well, assuming there is no system installed on it). Again, Steve's tool can also make the Thumb bootable.
#15
Posted 07 November 2011 - 09:02 AM
is in my view the most powerfull approach.
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=24424
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=23553
- PE will loose installed drivers and additional installed programs all the time and has no printer support,
whereas the portable windows versions are Universal and behave just as regular windows and will keep installed programs + drivers.
The size of Portable XP Image file is about 1 GB and for Portable Windows 7 VHD about 1.5 GB,
which is no problem and quite well acceptable on portable USB- harddisk.
- Portable USB-harddisk is preferred over USB-sticks
since the USB-harddisk boots faster, is more easily prepared, and has more capacity with more partitions visible in Windows,
and the USB-harddisk is connected and carried as easily as USB-sticks.
#16
Posted 07 November 2011 - 10:09 AM
- Portable USB-harddisk is preferred over USB-sticks
since the USB-harddisk boots faster, is more easily prepared, and has more capacity with more partitions visible in Windows,
and the USB-harddisk is connected and carried as easily as USB-sticks.
Or flip the bit and be done with the stoopid stick.
I doubt the "as easily" :
http://www.supertale...e/18_75_336.gif
Of course the "best thing" is having BOTH a PE and a "full" XP or 7 AND have it together with a few .iso's in a thingy like the IODD, or the Isostick (when it will be available) or in a CDEMU device, for maximum compatibility.
Wonko
#17
Posted 07 November 2011 - 10:17 AM
Sure, the size of USB-sticks can be very small, but the size of e.g. Samsung S2 Portable 2.5 inch USB-harddisk is quite well acceptable.I doubt the "as easily" :
http://www.supertale...e/18_75_336.gif
Indeed it is good to have additionally some extra ISO's available for booting from Grub4dos menu on USB e.g PartedMagic and LiveXP and 7PE
Another thing is that data on USB-sticks are less reliably preserved, e.g. I would not use USB-sticks as a backup medium.
USB-harddisks are as good as normal harddisks in this respect.
#18
Posted 07 November 2011 - 10:35 AM
Let me doubt this also.Another thing is that data on USB-sticks are less reliably preserved, e.g. I would not use USB-sticks as a backup medium.
USB-harddisks are as good as normal harddisks in this respect.
Of course the hard disk is just as reliable as *any* other hard disk, inside the USB case there is a "normal" hard disk, BUT the probabilities of mechanical shock are IMHO far greater for a 2.5" HD inside a USB portable case when compared to what it would normally have to bear inside a notebook/laptop.
After all the "solid" in "solid state" should have a meaning .
OT, but not much, unless you live in Japan if the thingy falls from the table on the floor it is likely to become a dud:
http://www.msfn.org/...internet-noise/
Sometimes I wonder WHY thingies like this:
http://en.akihabaran...kproof-hdd-case
http://www.cultofmac...usb-hard-drive/
are not common or even "standard".
Wonko
#19
Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:40 PM
I wonder, if your Tutorials may benefit from a Table of Content or Logic Graph... At fast look through it was difficult for me to understand, whether numerous described methods complement each other, represent a mandatory sequence, or are independent of each other.
Could you elaborate a bit (possibly in one sentence list instead of referring to a lengthy forum thread), what does your COMPACT program do to make Win7 and XP shrink, and what particular Win 7 features are deleted and/or switched off by this process.
#20
Posted 07 November 2011 - 01:37 PM
For the mechanical damage arguments you are right,Let me doubt this also.
but I had writing and reading data on USB-drives in mind.
In that respect USB-sticks are less reliable than USB-harddisks.
@sambul
Interesting info for you can be derived from the list of files to be copied for making Portable Windows 7.
See files copy_7vhd.txt and nf20_7vhd.txt in folder IMG_XPVHD_W7
The main reduction in size is achieved by reducing folders
windowswinsxs
Windowsassembly
WindowsMicrosoft.NETFramework
WindowsSystem32DriverStore
WindowsFonts
I reduced for Portable Windows 7 those folders according to what is known to work in 7PE
and that was successful.
Further system32 folder was reduced according to the Exclude file Exc_port7_sys32.txt
- Brito likes this
#21
Posted 07 November 2011 - 01:54 PM
Your above links lead to great methods of making portable Win versions boot from USB. Can you explain or point to a single post that presents a brief overview, why and how a regular WinXP backup to an .img or .raw file needs to be manipulated (if at all) to boot it via Grub4DOS? I guess, this thread gives some brief hints about it.
I mean not a sequence of tools to use, but a clear list of approaches to make it 1) universal and 2) boot (i.e., add FiraDisk to..., etc.). I was lost a bit following briefly your suggested "tooling" sequence wondering, why do I need to use these tools to begin with. The solution was presented without first showing a problem needed to be solved (why?) by suggested approaches (why?), coded into a select tools usage sequence. Now I have the book, where someone pulled out first half of its pages - go figure.
I do understand, any tool development can be a lengthy process that may involve numerous discussions. But an average forum visitor doesn't have to be subjected to all these talks, unless he wants to. Once a Tutorial is written, IMHO it should be self-contained, briefly explaining:
1) a problem and, as a result, tasks at hand;
2) a suggested solution (a brief list or sequence of approaches) behind making the problem solved;
3) selected tools usage flow to implement that solution, briefly explaining what each tool actually does.
#22
Posted 07 November 2011 - 05:10 PM
I didn't realize, you shrink the universal Windows acording to PE findings.
What's then the difference, between your PE and your universal Windows? Just the working security hive?
#23
Posted 07 November 2011 - 05:46 PM
For about a month now, I have been experimenting a full blown Windows XP SP3 Professional and a complete Windows 7 Ultimate install on large USB sticks and 160 GB USB hard drives. In this experiment, I have also included a 60 GB SATA II Solid-State USB drive. In total, I have dedicated for this experiment 10 USB storage media of variable characteristics, using two computers:
- ASUS Eee Top 1602 Touch-Screen, Cpu 1.6 GHz dual-core, RAM 2GB
- ASRock 755V88+, Cpu 3 GHz dual processor, RAM 2 GB
First, I prepared an XP-to-USB Install disk by making the necessary modifications to the i368 folder then burnt back to disk.
For Win7:
- I downloaded "NT 6.x fast installer batch scripts by fujianabc"
- extracted the package to a LiveXP Target folder
- created another sub-folder in the LiveXP Target folder and extracted Win7 DVD into it
- then created my LiveXP-Win7 Install iso-file and burnt it to disk
- They both install and run smoothly on both computers.
- To get a typical system behaviour, after inatall, go to your USB disk properties and activate "Write Caching" under policies.
- When the USB disk is attached through a hub, WinXP will still run (with some glitches though) while Win7 will reboot infinitely reporting no error.
- If no other hard disk in the system is attached to an ATA or SATA port, no pagefile will be created in niether of the systems (WinXP and Win7 alike)
- If a hard disk is attached to an ATA/SATA port after install, WinXP will create and use a pagefile on it but if later removed, XP will no longer use pagefile even if it is present, until you make a clean install. Instead, if Win7 finds a disk on ATA/SATA port, it will create and use the pagefile; if the disk is later removed, it will report no pagefile; if disk is put back, it will re-create or reuse the pagefile.
- While the pagefile is present, both WinXP and Win7 will run without any limitations (since USB reads are fast enough while writes are cached)
- When no pagefile is present, memory-hungry applications like adobe premiere... will freeze and quit during intensive activity.
- If you have plenty of RAM, then no problen at all.
- If you install to USB SSD (solid-state-disk) Win7 will not create a pagefile but will treat the entire disk as RAM, thus, ReadyBoost will not be available. Both WinXP and Win7 will run faster. You may forget that your system is running from USB and un-plug it by mistake as I did a couple of times.
- If you unplug your USB disk and plug it into another PC, WinXP will pop up some errors and try to install some necessary drivers then run acceptably after reboot. In the worst scenario, it will run in safe mode. Win7 instead, boots without errors then automatically installs new devices. The first time I did it un-intentionally: when I came back from the office, I plugged the Win7 USB disk on another computer and put it on. When I came back to work on it, instead of Windows XP Home Edition, I found Windows 7 Ultimate. I asked my child who installed Win7 on this computer. I later found-out it booted from the USB disk I brought from the office.
- pscEx and RoyM like this
#24
Posted 07 November 2011 - 05:54 PM
Peter
#25
Posted 07 November 2011 - 06:14 PM
As far as the drive conversation, we have started using USB HDDs (GoFlex) and take the drive off and put an SSD on it instead. It basically makes them a large USB key.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users