It was recently noted on the forum that some members incorporated Hate messages in their forum Signatures. The hate is inspired against a particular product or project, and its not far from there to inspire HATE against developers of that project, people living in certain countries, or certain ethnic groups.
I think forum Rules should prohibit Hate message in signatures in any shape or form, and generally any attempts to directly discredit work of others. In business world its VERY COSTLY to badmouth a competitor's product. Of course product critique is useful, when delivered in a course of suitable discussion, but not as an old ad trick.
In politics a message of hate gives some groups in certain countries means to control power and redistribute common wealth in their favor. I realize, in some countries the whole population is ideologically treated to induce hate to a "common enemy", so messages of Hate are common. But this is international forum. It should not promote hate to anyone or anything. In programming - just plain stupid: you don't like it - no need to keep using it - make something better. Show advantages of your own work instead of diminishing work of others.
Some ppl have nothing much to show or want to control others, so they use the Hate trick... But it should not be allowed on the forum.
Forbid Hate Messages in Member Signatures
Started by
sambul61
, Dec 15 2010 08:36 PM
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This topic is locked
22 replies to this topic
#2
Galapo
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:58 PM
@sambul61
What one member could take as hate speech, another member could take as simply stating the plain truth.
Which signatures are you referring to? We could then discuss whether they are hate speech, or simply stating the plain truth which has been misinterrpreted as hate speech.
Of course, what one member puts in their signature another member might choose not to do. So what one member puts as plain truth in their signature and which other members may agree with, those other members may be a bit more reserved and choose not to put this in their own signature.
Regards,
Galapo.
What one member could take as hate speech, another member could take as simply stating the plain truth.
Which signatures are you referring to? We could then discuss whether they are hate speech, or simply stating the plain truth which has been misinterrpreted as hate speech.
Of course, what one member puts in their signature another member might choose not to do. So what one member puts as plain truth in their signature and which other members may agree with, those other members may be a bit more reserved and choose not to put this in their own signature.
Regards,
Galapo.
#3
sambul61
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 09:06 PM
Lancelot' Sig: "I hate Medusa problems of WinBuilder, Cryptic codes, syntax rules fakingly mismatching working lines, not having even basic fundemantal syntax rules and mostly 'lies' and 'post games'.
('post games' = includes dishonest, childish posts that have goal to annoy others in community)"
What the f.ck is this? It does not matter, what you or someone else believe to be "truth". The expressed propaganda of Hate should be forbidden on this forum. Why don't list LiveXP pros instead? I gave the link above. Actually, it is enforced throughout the world, despite some ppl believe Hate is the only truth they know or live for. It doesn't matter, whom they hate, others have the right to be protected from such influence and resulting actions. Promoting HATE is NOT democracy, and is never done in truly democratic states or institutions. Even less place on tech forums for that.
('post games' = includes dishonest, childish posts that have goal to annoy others in community)"
What the f.ck is this? It does not matter, what you or someone else believe to be "truth". The expressed propaganda of Hate should be forbidden on this forum. Why don't list LiveXP pros instead? I gave the link above. Actually, it is enforced throughout the world, despite some ppl believe Hate is the only truth they know or live for. It doesn't matter, whom they hate, others have the right to be protected from such influence and resulting actions. Promoting HATE is NOT democracy, and is never done in truly democratic states or institutions. Even less place on tech forums for that.
#4
barin6588
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:06 PM
This is Galapo writing from a bugmenot account because his account has been suspended.
I won't comment on the above, only to make a statement in relation to the other topic which has now been hidden.
There I tried to defend myself against some accusations Nuno leveled against me. In another topic I tried to answer his accusations, but that response was also hidden. I guess the truth of the matter is that Nuno doesn't want his accusations to be shown to have no basis in reality. I don't know what that is. Really he should be hiding his own posts which have accusations against me. To the extent that he leaves them open to the public and my own posts hidden, it gives the impression to everyone that I'm not wanting to answer his questions and I've got something to hide. That is definitely not the case, which is why I've logged in now.
Someone else will have to follow this up with Nuno as I guess my ip address will be blocked so I can't use bugmenot anymore.
Thanks,
Galapo.
I won't comment on the above, only to make a statement in relation to the other topic which has now been hidden.
There I tried to defend myself against some accusations Nuno leveled against me. In another topic I tried to answer his accusations, but that response was also hidden. I guess the truth of the matter is that Nuno doesn't want his accusations to be shown to have no basis in reality. I don't know what that is. Really he should be hiding his own posts which have accusations against me. To the extent that he leaves them open to the public and my own posts hidden, it gives the impression to everyone that I'm not wanting to answer his questions and I've got something to hide. That is definitely not the case, which is why I've logged in now.
Someone else will have to follow this up with Nuno as I guess my ip address will be blocked so I can't use bugmenot anymore.
Thanks,
Galapo.
#5
homes32
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:17 PM
Lancelot' Sig: "I hate Medusa problems of WinBuilder, Cryptic codes, syntax rules fakingly mismatching working lines, not having even basic fundemantal syntax rules and mostly 'lies' and 'post games'.
('post games' = includes dishonest, childish posts that have goal to annoy others in community)"
What the f.ck is this? It does not matter, what you or someone else believe to be "truth". The expressed propaganda of Hate should not be allowed on this forum. Why don't list LiveXP pros instead? I gave the link above. Actually, it is enforced throughout the world, despite some ppl believe Hate is the only truth they know or live for. It doesn't matter, whom they hate, others have the right to be protected from such influence and resulting actions. Promoting HATE is NOT democracy, and is never done in truly democratic states or institutions. Even less place on tech forums for that.
I'll say it again since the "Lancelot comments #2" thread mysteriously disappeared a minute or so ago.
Have you tried asking Lancelot to remove or change the wording on his signature?? really is it that hard? we are not preschoolers here and there is no need to create a big fuss all over the forum every time someone says something you don't personally agree with. I also find it hard to believe that any member here would not modify/reword/remove an "offending" post if personally and politely asked by the person(s) offended.
agreed that Lancelot's signature may not be the best place to vent his frustrations on WB development, but it is hardly what I consider to be hate speech, or the promotion thereof.
#6
sanbarrow
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:29 PM
What the f.ck is this?
I wondered about the same after being away for months and just checking in to see what reboot.pro is all about
To me it is a sad sign - really sad.
Looks like the team spirit of earlier days is gone south completely.
Others have said the same years earlier and left without making a fuzz about it.
If now one of the guys that kept the LiveXP-show on the road finds it necessary to use such methods to be heard it is even more sad.
To me that is no hate signature at all - it is a desperate cry for a open-minded discussion - which seems to be impossible right now.
Was he banned because of this signature ?
Oh dear ...
Galapo is banned too ?
... that will be a short visit this time ...
bye
Ulli
#7
sambul61
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:42 PM
homes32
Thanks for your comment. I don't agree or disagree with Lancelot's sig claims, since I don't use the apps he mentioned there - unaware. However, the method to advertise own work by promoting Hate to work of others is fundamentally wrong. My attention to that sig was drawn when this conflict shown up again yesterday - I didn't know it exists. So trying to understand the background was easy from that very sig.
I did exchange a few PMs with Lancelot about that whole thread and other things - its private. Did you notice, I asked to give him "probation", but its wise to do in exchange of changing Hate message on a Friendly sig, and generally soften his attitude and demands towards others.
Galapo
Sorry to hear that. It seems, Homes32 advice is right on target with your issue too - get in touch personally by email. Thanks for your contribution to this forum! Hope, its just for everyone to cool down and come back.
Thanks for your comment. I don't agree or disagree with Lancelot's sig claims, since I don't use the apps he mentioned there - unaware. However, the method to advertise own work by promoting Hate to work of others is fundamentally wrong. My attention to that sig was drawn when this conflict shown up again yesterday - I didn't know it exists. So trying to understand the background was easy from that very sig.
I did exchange a few PMs with Lancelot about that whole thread and other things - its private. Did you notice, I asked to give him "probation", but its wise to do in exchange of changing Hate message on a Friendly sig, and generally soften his attitude and demands towards others.
Galapo
Sorry to hear that. It seems, Homes32 advice is right on target with your issue too - get in touch personally by email. Thanks for your contribution to this forum! Hope, its just for everyone to cool down and come back.
#8
barin6588
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:12 PM
@sambul61
Nuno is not replying to my emails, so I don't know where to go from here.
To the extent that he leaves his own negative statements against me existing on the forum (statements which he keeps dropping first and which cause me to then repond to his flames/fire he started) and hides my responses shows that there some issue there for him. He seems to prefer giving the impression that he has the last word and that his statements are uncahallengeable, whereas in reality they've been shown to be inaccurate, but he just doesn't want this visible to the public. But I cannot work through this so long as he makes himself uncontactable and this forum inaccessible by normal means. It's very inconvenient to use a bugmenot account, so I daresay this will be my last post until my suspension ends sometime towards the end of February next year.
Basically this means that the most popular PE1 project here has no support as the two developers have been suspended. The other most active PE3 project has also lost two developers since Lancelot and myself (me as of a week or so ago) are both developers of the Win7PE_SE project. Basically support of these project is effectively halted. So the WinBuilder project pool grows less and less, development stunted by draconian forum measures...
So long til Feb.
Regards,
Galapo.
Nuno is not replying to my emails, so I don't know where to go from here.
To the extent that he leaves his own negative statements against me existing on the forum (statements which he keeps dropping first and which cause me to then repond to his flames/fire he started) and hides my responses shows that there some issue there for him. He seems to prefer giving the impression that he has the last word and that his statements are uncahallengeable, whereas in reality they've been shown to be inaccurate, but he just doesn't want this visible to the public. But I cannot work through this so long as he makes himself uncontactable and this forum inaccessible by normal means. It's very inconvenient to use a bugmenot account, so I daresay this will be my last post until my suspension ends sometime towards the end of February next year.
Basically this means that the most popular PE1 project here has no support as the two developers have been suspended. The other most active PE3 project has also lost two developers since Lancelot and myself (me as of a week or so ago) are both developers of the Win7PE_SE project. Basically support of these project is effectively halted. So the WinBuilder project pool grows less and less, development stunted by draconian forum measures...
So long til Feb.
Regards,
Galapo.
#9
sambul61
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:15 PM
Sanbarrow
Hi, I have to say, many ppl miss your input on VMWare on this forum, me including. Pls come back! No, the Sig has nothing to do with temp blocking, as I understand, since this story has some legs. You're correct, open discussion about advantages and drawbacks of each project is very welcome, and it should be HOT. Not sure however, it was difficult to have such discussion before - why? One doesn't have to flame anyone, when talking about product improvements. Such discussions better be common place on this forum to facilitate projects. Especially keeping in mind, its not a usual fight for immediate project funding, but merely about development directions and features. What to fight for?
In fact, I asked a guy once, what are the advantages of using QEMU compare to VMWare? The guy get upset - you don't trust me?
Another time I asked, what are the advantages of using Grub4DOS, when Grub 2 is currently available? Similar innocent question - and no content answer... Main developer said "I don't know anything about Grub 2" - would you believe that? 
When in fact all product development process is about asking such type of questions and trying to find valid answers.
Hi, I have to say, many ppl miss your input on VMWare on this forum, me including. Pls come back! No, the Sig has nothing to do with temp blocking, as I understand, since this story has some legs. You're correct, open discussion about advantages and drawbacks of each project is very welcome, and it should be HOT. Not sure however, it was difficult to have such discussion before - why? One doesn't have to flame anyone, when talking about product improvements. Such discussions better be common place on this forum to facilitate projects. Especially keeping in mind, its not a usual fight for immediate project funding, but merely about development directions and features. What to fight for?
In fact, I asked a guy once, what are the advantages of using QEMU compare to VMWare? The guy get upset - you don't trust me?
Another time I asked, what are the advantages of using Grub4DOS, when Grub 2 is currently available? Similar innocent question - and no content answer... Main developer said "I don't know anything about Grub 2" - would you believe that? When in fact all product development process is about asking such type of questions and trying to find valid answers.
#10
sambul61
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:22 PM
Galapo
How do you suggest to organize a discussion about each project direction, pros and cons? I mean, not about what guy is worse than the other, but on projects comparative advantages, target market niches, and possible improvement directions?
What is your justification in keeping developing PE1? How it compares to PE3?
How do you suggest to organize a discussion about each project direction, pros and cons? I mean, not about what guy is worse than the other, but on projects comparative advantages, target market niches, and possible improvement directions?
What is your justification in keeping developing PE1? How it compares to PE3?
#11
barin6588
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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:52 PM
See here for one possible way: http://reboot.pro/in...80&st=0&start=0How do you suggest to organize a discussion about each project direction, pros and cons? I mean, not about what guy is worse than the other, but on projects comparative advantages, target market niches, and possible improvement directions?
There was another table someone else has done as well, but since I can't log in under my own account, I am unable to access PMs etc where I might be able to find it.
Simply because it is fun and for my own free time.What is your justification in keeping developing PE1?
I don't really know as I'm not into marketing and advertising one product over another. Further, I've only begun support of a PE3 project, so it's early days for me. So what I'm saying is, I'm not the person to ask about this.How it compares to PE3?
Regards,
Galapo.
#12
sambul61
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 12:18 AM
Thanks,
Interesting idea to make a comparison chart. Not enough though.
Never underestimate this kind of questions. Its not about marketing for most visitors, but rather finding the right direction to solve their own problem, or get oriented more easily among many complex things.
See, a typical visitor to this site is probably looking for similar answers, and they need to be readily available. From your above reply I can only figure out your interests, but its hard to say, how I can use your results for my needs. Each project requires some effort to understand. So what would a visitor starts from, if no survey is available that compares various projects on this site, and what type of user and kind of needs each project primarily caters to.
Hence, if every developer explains, who they think would benefit most from using their work, and how it compares to other similar apps offered here and elsewhere, than a visitor can get around pretty fast and easy, and use the results of one's work by educated choice (not guess).
When all projects are classified this way, its easier to see some overlap and gaps, and possible development directions. But when no app has a clearly identified market niche or target user, it all gets mixed up around nothing: "My app is better that yours", and it's the only point to make.
Lets say, after reading all these signatures I get really lost: when would I benefit from using PE1, or PE3, or LiveCD, or WinBuilder, or Grub4DOS, or Grub 2, or something not found here? That's interesting discussion direction - differentiate user groups, identify your target group needs, keep your eye on your user balls (benefits), explain the user these benefits, find means to expand the benefits - and success to your project will follow. No need to hate anything, first you need to learn who may be interested to use results of your project and why? And then demonstrate to others why you believe its your target user group, why they will benefit from your project most. A user focused approach to product development (as opposed to project or developer centered) - that's the shortcut to get noticed and enjoy some tasty fruits.
Interesting idea to make a comparison chart. Not enough though.
Never underestimate this kind of questions. Its not about marketing for most visitors, but rather finding the right direction to solve their own problem, or get oriented more easily among many complex things.
See, a typical visitor to this site is probably looking for similar answers, and they need to be readily available. From your above reply I can only figure out your interests, but its hard to say, how I can use your results for my needs. Each project requires some effort to understand. So what would a visitor starts from, if no survey is available that compares various projects on this site, and what type of user and kind of needs each project primarily caters to.
Hence, if every developer explains, who they think would benefit most from using their work, and how it compares to other similar apps offered here and elsewhere, than a visitor can get around pretty fast and easy, and use the results of one's work by educated choice (not guess
).When all projects are classified this way, its easier to see some overlap and gaps, and possible development directions. But when no app has a clearly identified market niche or target user, it all gets mixed up around nothing: "My app is better that yours", and it's the only point to make.
Lets say, after reading all these signatures I get really lost: when would I benefit from using PE1, or PE3, or LiveCD, or WinBuilder, or Grub4DOS, or Grub 2, or something not found here? That's interesting discussion direction - differentiate user groups, identify your target group needs, keep your eye on your user balls (benefits), explain the user these benefits, find means to expand the benefits - and success to your project will follow. No need to hate anything, first you need to learn who may be interested to use results of your project and why?
And then demonstrate to others why you believe its your target user group, why they will benefit from your project most. A user focused approach to product development (as opposed to project or developer centered) - that's the shortcut to get noticed and enjoy some tasty fruits.
#13
barin6588
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 08:29 AM
Hi sambul61,
Regarding comparison of the various active PE projects, the only developer which is knowledable enough of projects and experienced enough with the projects is Lancelot. He is a project developer of two active projects and helps with a couple of others. Apart from him there isn't anyone experienced enough with the projects to give you the information you are after. But he's been banned from the forum so likely will be unable to provide what you need.
Regards,
Galapo.
Regarding comparison of the various active PE projects, the only developer which is knowledable enough of projects and experienced enough with the projects is Lancelot. He is a project developer of two active projects and helps with a couple of others. Apart from him there isn't anyone experienced enough with the projects to give you the information you are after. But he's been banned from the forum so likely will be unable to provide what you need.
Regards,
Galapo.
#14
al_jo
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:35 AM
Lets say, after reading all these signatures I get really lost: when would I benefit from using PE1, or PE3,
You forgot to mention PE2.
I'm using it daily although it’s a little bit “old”.
Almost all new scripts for PE3 is working on VistaPE(2)
http://vistape.winbuilder.net/
Ps. I also dislike "hatery" sigs...
#15
barin6588
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:51 AM
hi al_jo,
Yes, you are right. Lancelot helps to maintain the VistaPE-CAPI project. So that makes three projects for him.
Regards,
Galapo.
Yes, you are right. Lancelot helps to maintain the VistaPE-CAPI project. So that makes three projects for him.
Regards,
Galapo.
#16
barin6588
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 10:01 AM
And regarding Lancelot's signature -- Sanbarrow is definitely correct to read it as he has. It was a plea to be heard. Basically he's given up all hope for this forum now. He's given up all hope regarding positive development of WinBuilder.exe. All hope lost for him.
In reality, he is one of the nicest people you will meet. And yet the way he was treated on this forum caused him to write what he did, for better or worse. You might no agree with writing what he did in a signature. Be that as it may, the fact is people drove him to do this. So it's not just his signature which should be evaluated, but also the treatment he has received which drove him to write it. The signature did not just "pop out of nowhere".
In reality, he is one of the nicest people you will meet. And yet the way he was treated on this forum caused him to write what he did, for better or worse. You might no agree with writing what he did in a signature. Be that as it may, the fact is people drove him to do this. So it's not just his signature which should be evaluated, but also the treatment he has received which drove him to write it. The signature did not just "pop out of nowhere".
#17
ChrisR
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 10:20 AM
Me, that lack of time (familly, works, ...) , to maintain Win7Pe_Se, his knowledge of projects PE1 2 or 3 is really valuable and it is a really great help for me. I do not know yet how to continue (for now, Christmas holidays ).
A new updated / moved froum, with a great works from Mikorist and Nuno, maybe it's time to forget the past and some misunderstanding and find again this team spirit.
A new updated / moved froum, with a great works from Mikorist and Nuno, maybe it's time to forget the past and some misunderstanding and find again this team spirit.
#18
Wonko the Sane
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 10:27 AM
In fact, I asked a guy once, what are the advantages of using QEMU compare to VMWare? The guy get upset - you don't trust me?
Another time I asked, what are the advantages of using Grub4DOS, when Grub 2 is currently available? Similar innocent question - and no content answer... Main developer said "I don't know anything about Grub 2" - would you believe that?
When in fact all product development process is about asking such type of questions and trying to find valid answers.
NO, I don't trust you
, the question was made:http://reboot.pro/13115/page__st__38
in a thread where you managed to completely ignore ANY and ALL previous suggestions, stubbornly going on the path you set before you, basing yourself on assumptions you earlier made.
If you re-read again the whole thread:
http://reboot.pro/13115
maybe you could be able to understand WHY "the guy" may have got upset.
And I also doubt that you are describing the other episode you mentioned accurately:
http://reboot.pro/13282/page__st__7
it seems to me like you asked for a comparison between grub4dos and GRUB2 and one of the Authors of the first replied to you ( very politely as I see it) how he was not able to fulfill your request as he doesn't know/use daily the second.
Wonko
#20
barin6588
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 10:44 AM
That's a bit hard for the four current reasons:find again this team spirit.
1) I can't log in under my own name -- for TWO months.
2) Nuno isn't replying to my emails to sort things out that way.
3) My codeveloper is also banned.
4) My name keeps getting dropped in negative comments from Nuno and I can't work out why that is. Why was he beginning to do that more and more the last week or so?
Team spirit will have to start at the top. I can't progress any further under the conditions above.
@Wonko the Sane
Maybe if you have enough access rights on the forum you can change my old name to was_Galapo and I can join this special group of severely disenchanted people.
Thanks,
was_Galapo.
Edited by barin6588, 16 December 2010 - 10:48 AM.
#21
Mikorist
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 10:46 AM
@ ALL
you think that's air your breathing now?
you think that's air your breathing now?
#22
Wonko the Sane
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 11:00 AM
@Wonko the Sane
Maybe if you have enough access rights on the forum you can change my old name to was_Galapo and I can join this special group of severely disenchanted people.
Sorry
, that's out of my prerogatives, both as "Wonko the Sane" and as "was_jaclaz".I am not anymore part of the "staff" of
The good thing, if you think about it on the bright side
, is that you can take a couple months off (which you definitely deserve for all the good work you did on the board) and have time for other things.@Mikorist
Very interesting the way you are keeping posting videos (funny or not).
Wonko approves of this
, it will be the first multimedia technical board on the planet, where people instead of talking will simply post their preferred clip and let other people womder WHAT is the meaning of it and WHAT THE HECK it has to do with the (possibly serious ) matters discussed.Now this is REALLY l33t.
Let's start:
Wonko
#23
Brito
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Posted 16 December 2010 - 11:20 AM
Do mind that my (free) time is not fully dedicated to you.2) Nuno isn't replying to my emails to sort things out that way.
Had to sleep, catch up my daily work during part of the morning and attend other messages on my inbox that also need attention.
You are not welcome to continue such flaming in our community, I suggest you do find elsewhere to proceed with your participation with like-minded people.
Resolutions:
- barin6588 account banned
- Galapo's IP has been marked.
- We do not allow hate messages in this forum, Lancelot's signature will be edited.
- This discussion is closed.
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